Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[Hunter Gathers]

It's not a Statboy Steven bust. It's a Nik Bobrov bust (well not Kakko he was a unanimous #2 prospect in the draft). Steven is European and follows Europeans more closely. It's not his fault our European scouting sucks.

This one isn't on the scouts. This one is on the player.

Kakko was the consensus #2 overall pick. Not a single team would have passed on him. This is all on him. I will not blame the scouts for not passing on the true consensus #2 overall pick (where some even though [not me] he'd go #1).

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Weak and slow from COVID? No. He literally just never improved his skating. At all. He never did power skating classes. Never put in any real work. His skating has been his number one flaw with a hail of bullets ever since he was drafted.

Yet we've seen literally zero improvement.

I don't know if this is the team or him. I can't fathom the team being this out to lunch on his skating, so . . . I have no clue.

I think we can finally put to bad tHe rAnGeRs aRe bAd aT dEvElOpMeNt. Laf's fine.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

Come on. This is just such a dishonest way of framing this.

Kakko has had one single season where he's paced 40 points (sadly, he couldn't even pace 41 points - not even a .5 ppg pace!!!!). Why are you adding in random qualifiers to push him over in other seasons to try and prove a point?

Like, we can't even have a serious conversation when you're just going to start the discussion in a dishonest manner.

25 point pace this year (pathetic)
40 points last year (yayyyy)
34 point pace in 21/22 (About 17-18% off the pace you claim he was on - 40 points)
29 point pace in 20/21
29 point pace in 19/20

I feel like every single conversation about this guy someone says or does something dishonest. I get that some of you people have fond feelings for him for whatever reason, but get your facts straight first as I am one that will look into this stuff and actually check what you say.

It's dishonest to use his career averages, and then look at the context of his last two seasons to figure out that, if healthy he'll hit...those averages? Ok.

Like, 40 pts really isnt a large hill to climb, man. He's 22 and still really talented, already hit the 40 pt mark and close to 20 goals. It's a stretch to say that in his most productive years moving forward, he wouldn't hit or exceed those marks? Come on.

Then let someone else overvalue him based on guessing what he will become. Watching him his entire career and nothing has changed or evolved. Not a single wow moment of skill.

Below average shot
Below average speed
Below average ability off the rush
Below average playmaking (all f***ing playoffs he threw hope passes blindly to the slot from below the goal line and then snapped his head in frustration because no one was there)

He occasionally shows above average board play and possession

He is an offensive black hole that doesn't create offense.

He's not a black hole lol. If he wasn't the number 2OA pick you'd be valuing him as a third line defensive forward with decent offensive upside for a third liner. That's all I'm saying we should value him as. Looking at him purely as a third liner making $2m, he's a good value player. Now if he wants a significant raise, yeah, bad value. But 2-2.5m, unless we have other moves in the tank and need the cap space, it's a good value.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It's dishonest to use his career averages, and then look at the context of his last two seasons to figure out that, if healthy he'll hit...those averages? Ok.

Like, 40 pts really isnt a large hill to climb, man. He's 22 and still really talented, already hit the 40 pt mark and close to 20 goals. It's a stretch to say that in his most productive years moving forward, he wouldn't hit or exceed those marks? Come on.



He's not a black hole lol. If he wasn't the number 2OA pick you'd be valuing him as a third line defensive forward with decent offensive upside for a third liner. That's all I'm saying we should value him as. Looking at him purely as a third liner making $2m, he's a good value player. Now if he wants a significant raise, yeah, bad value. But 2-2.5m, unless we have other moves in the tank and need the cap space, it's a good value.

If he were a third rounder we'd know he busted his ass and maximized his talent. Instead he's everything wrong about players. Hasn't improved since maybe his second season. Like it or not his draft position matters.

 

[Oak]

1st round draft pick who is headed to towards being a 4th line player. Not the first time it's happened but I don't see him still playing in the NHL 5 years from now.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

If he were a third rounder we'd know he busted his ass and maximized his talent. Instead he's everything wrong about players. Hasn't improved since maybe his second season. Like it or not his draft position matters.

You think Kakko doesn't play hard? I don't think his issue is effort. He battles hard along the boards, wins puck battles, has a crapload of takeaways, is solid on the puck which is why his possession numbers are good and generally any line he's on keeps the puck in the offensive zone. His two problems aren't a matter of effort: he lacks separation speed and finishing ability.

In terms of what he can control, Kakko is night and day better than his disastrous rookie season and he's put on considerable muscle in the last few offseasons because his lack of physical power was an issue early on.

Maybe his offensive ceiling is just not what we projected?

 

[DevilDog99]

My personal opinion, offer 2.5-3/year show me bridge deal 1-2 years, take it or leave it. Otherwise shop him for a second or middle prospect.

At this point, he is an ok third liner with no upside and no intangibles. Starting to think that may be his ceiling.

 

[EdJovanovski]

My personal opinion, offer 2.5-3/year show me bridge deal 1-2 years, take it or leave it. Otherwise shop him for a second or middle prospect.

At this point, he is an ok third liner with no upside and no intangibles. Starting to think that may be his ceiling.

Way too much

 

[Ruggs225]

Way too much

No its exactly what he is worth now. And you cant go lower bc is QO is about that.

But it has to be a 1 year contract and not 2 because to would take him to UFA at the end.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

This one isn't on the scouts. This one is on the player.

Kakko was the consensus #2 overall pick. Not a single team would have passed on him. This is all on him. I will not blame the scouts for not passing on the true consensus #2 overall pick (where some even though [not me] he'd go #1).

And he was that good.

He looked like the coming of a new and improved version of an NHL power forward

Whatever happened is in the past. You can blame him or the scenario, it doesnt matter. Its disappointing all around.

 

[McRanger92]

Can someone tell me what Kakko is good at instead of some "he's good defensively" (he's not) BS? He can't skate, shoot or pass. He doesnt hit or block shots. He doesnt have a special teams role of any kind. He is the #2 RW on the depth chart behind a guy who switched positions last year. That's a fatal flaw in the Rangers roster construction, evidenced by the fact that they've trade for a top 6 RW the past 3 deadlines.

2.4 mil is a wild overpay for how little Kakko contributes to the Rangers winning games. Money spent much more efficiently on an actual good player.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Can someone tell me what Kakko is good at instead of some "he's good defensively" (he's not) BS? He can't skate, shoot or pass. He doesnt hit or block shots. He doesnt have a special teams role of any kind. He is the #2 RW on the depth chart behind a guy who switched positions last year. That's a fatal flaw in the Rangers roster construction, evidenced by the fact that they've trade for a top 6 RW the past 3 deadlines.

2.4 mil is a wild overpay for how little Kakko contributes to the Rangers winning games. Money spent much more efficiently on an actual good player.

As an outside observer, Kakko is a big forward who seems to be very good controlling the puck on the cycle, pretty good winning board battles. But I did notice in the playoffs that he has a tendency to not attack the net when he has puck possession, leads to controlled possession time that ends in no positive outcome.

He's the type that looks very good with some of the micro fancy stats but the results aren't there, and it is evident when you watch games. His skating is just ok, but he makes his stride work.

 

[bhamill]

Definitely not a throwaway. We should be realistic though. His value is what it is based on his play. In fact ot is probably a bit higher than his actual play just based on draft position.

His value is also based on his play last season as well... and the fact that he is still only 23.

 

[bhamill]

But he has no home here, he has no role. He is a third liner here that plays with whatever players we have that aren't on the top 2 lines. Kakko can't hold a top 6 roles, he isn't skilled enough nor can he even keep up on rush plays. So he is a 3rd liners that doesn't pk. If we are keeping him for appearance sakes then we are doing a massive disservice

Well, he's a 3rd liner right now who prevents scoring and even in this "lost" season scored 0.3ppg, and at age 22 scored 0.5ppg, pretty much all at 5v5... I suggest they use him on the PK to be honest.
Bottom line is I'm not really disagreeing, I'm certainly not saying he is untouchable, I'm just saying giving him away out of frustration is bad asset management and very well may come back to haunt us...

I think we can finally put to bad tHe rAnGeRs aRe bAd aT dEvElOpMeNt. Laf's fine.

True, but if Quinn or Gallant had bothered to try to instill some confidence in Laf, he could possibly be a year or two more advanced in his development than he is now... Its a tight path to walk when you are trying to win AND to develop young players.

 

[NickyFotiu]

His value is also based on his play last season as well... and the fact that he is still only 23.

We may find out his value this summer. I'm not writing KK off. I do not think anyone should because he gives us just enough to say look at that a handful of times a month. With that said I am concerned. If he only becomes a 15-18 goal 35 point 3rd liner I will be disappointed.

 

[bhamill]

We may find out his value this summer. I'm not writing KK off. I do not think anyone should because he gives us just enough to say look at that a handful of times a month. With that said I am concerned. If he only becomes a 15-18 goal 35 point 3rd liner I will be disappointed.

Fair. But He scored 40 5v5 points at 22. I see no reason 35pts is his new ceiling.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Fair. But He scored 40 5v5 points at 22. I see no reason 35pts is his new ceiling.

I'm not saying 35 points is his ceiling but his most recent season leaves concern as to what his average season will be. Is 40 points to be expected as an average season or is it his max? The hard part for me with KK is I'm not sure what his outstanding skills are. We know he can play a bit on the boards but he is not the strongest guy and eventually loses the puck much more often than produces with it. For discussions sake please grade these skills with average, above average, and below average grades.

Skating:
Puck carrying (outside the blue line):
Shooting from outside the faceoff dots:
Shooting from inside the faceoff dots:
Passing:
Hockey IQ:

 

[bhamill]

I'm not saying 35 points is his ceiling but his most recent season leaves concern as to what his average season will be. Is 40 points to be expected as an average season or is it his max? The hard part for me with KK is I'm not sure what his outstanding skills are. We know he can play a bit on the boards but he is not the strongest guy and eventually loses the puck much more often than produces with it. For discussions sake please grade these skills with average, above average, and below average grades.

Skating:
Puck carrying (outside the blue line):
Shooting from outside the faceoff dots:
Shooting from inside the faceoff dots:
Passing:
Hockey IQ:

It would be fairly rare for a big "power" type forward to have maxed out at 22. Is it possible? Sure. Is it Probable? Nope. I hope they give him a show me contract this summer and he stays healthy enough to "show us" next year... either way.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It would be fairly rare for a big "power" type forward to have maxed out at 22. Is it possible? Sure. Is it Probable? Nope. I hope they give him a show me contract this summer and he stays healthy enough to "show us" next year... either way.

I would be okay with that. Please give me your grades on those skills I mentioned. I only ask because the thing about KK is he baffles me. I'm really now sure what his skills are right now.

 

[bhamill]

I would be okay with that. Please give me your grades on those skills I mentioned. I only ask because the thing about KK is he baffles me. I'm really now sure what his skills are right now.

I don't think I've ever "graded" a player's skills before, but this KIND OF reminds me of people asking what Laf's skills were... (NOT SAYING KAKKO IS ON LAF'S LEVEL)
Obviously defense and possession are strengths. He shows flashes with both his passes (lots of glorious setups of his have been blown) and his shooting. He has no consistency is a big problem. His skating needs work, his bursts, his first steps, but he has great balance and maneuvers well in tight spaces. He needs to just drive to the net too. I see a lot of this stemming from lack of confidence. Will he ever get that confidence? It's not a lock, but again, this is an introverted 23 year old kid...

 

[NickyFotiu]

I don't think I've ever "graded" a player's skills before, but this KIND OF reminds me of people asking what Laf's skills were... (NOT SAYING KAKKO IS ON LAF'S LEVEL)
Obviously defense and possession are strengths. He shows flashes with both his passes (lots of glorious setups of his have been blown) and his shooting. He has no consistency is a big problem. His skating needs work, his bursts, his first steps, but he has great balance and maneuvers well in tight spaces. He needs to just drive to the net too. I see a lot of this stemming from lack of confidence. Will he ever get that confidence? It's not a lock, but again, this is an introverted 23 year old kid...

I felt like I saw Laf's skills and weaknesses. My 3 big things coming off Lafs 3rd season were:

1. He was playing on the wrong wing and getting neutralized on the side boards. On the right side he is cutting to the middle on his forehand. Laf also got noticably stronger.
2. His skating needed to be improved. It has but can still use more work.
3. He needed to get in better shape. His motor was not high. Laf definitely got in better shape.

I honestly do not know what to make of KK. I see flashes of positives. I do not think it is all about confidence. Like Laf I see some good hands inside but he has to be willing to put the work in this offseason. I'm willing to give him another chance but he has to do better than 2023-24 in his 6th season.

 

[NickyLongLegz]

Kid is one year removed from a 40 point season on the 3rd line and no power play time. I’m confident if chytil was healthy all year centering him, we would’ve seen a similar result. Instead he had a bad knee injury and played with brodzinski and the offensive black hole that is wennberg.

Yes, he was given an opportunity to play with Kreider and Mika. For whatever reason, the RW is always the scapegoat as to why that line can’t do shit 5v5 when we’ve seen for 5 years those two don’t play well together unless on special teams. Meanwhile the revolving door of RW for that first line for several seasons proved literally nothing there works. I don’t think it’s the fault of the RW with that sample size…Maybe something like laf-Mika-kakko would’ve worked?

We were all clamoring for laf to be traded last year. I’d love to see another one year prove it deal for him. Maybe split up the butt buddies and we have a breakout season. At worst, we’ll have a solid third liner who has chemistry with fil for relatively cheap for another year. I get he’s been disappointing but I see too many people thinking he’s the issue and we absolutely need to part ways with him.

 

[bhamill]

I felt like I saw Laf's skills and weaknesses. My 3 big things coming off Lafs 3rd season were:

1. He was playing on the wrong wing and getting neutralized on the side boards. On the right side he is cutting to the middle on his forehand. Laf also got noticably stronger.
2. His skating needed to be improved. It has but can still use more work.
3. He needed to get in better shape. His motor was not high. Laf definitely got in better shape.

I honestly do not know what to make of KK. I see flashes of positives. I do not think it is all about confidence. Like Laf I see some good hands inside but he has to be willing to put the work in this offseason. I'm willing to give him another chance but he has to do better than 2023-24 in his 6th season.

I don't disagree on any of this. When I said it reminded me of people asking what Laf's skills were, I didn't mean to imply that was YOU buddy. Just the vibe I was getting reading it.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Ask Slats if hes got any extra chloroform from his GM days and dupe Fitzgerald into trading the #10 for Kakko

 

[bleedblue94]

Well, he's a 3rd liner right now who prevents scoring and even in this "lost" season scored 0.3ppg, and at age 22 scored 0.5ppg, pretty much all at 5v5... I suggest they use him on the PK to be honest.
Bottom line is I'm not really disagreeing, I'm certainly not saying he is untouchable, I'm just saying giving him away out of frustration is bad asset management and very well may come back to haunt us...


True, but if Quinn or Gallant had bothered to try to instill some confidence in Laf, he could possibly be a year or two more advanced in his development than he is now... Its a tight path to walk when you are trying to win AND to develop young players.

This isnt a "lost" season as if this is some kind of outlier.

We have watched him for 5 years now and he is essentially the same player he was halfway through his rookie season with no noticeable trajectory of skill or production.

People keep trying to prop his ppg and such at even strength, just watch the games. He is a net negative to any offensive/offensive zone production and it sucks. I hate dumping on him, but it is the truth. No finish, no elite skill. out of this referenced ppg I wonder how many are primary points? The kakko evolution is what we saw on a different scale with lias andersson, those that would defend him and then toss up hyperbole whenever there was a glimmer of light.

I literally cant think of anything he did to stand out in the playoffs except one power shift after he was benched where he had a dominant possession shift (of course all along the wall) and then tossed the puck into the slot blindly to the other team. His post season was tripping over his own feet attemping a toe drag, running into an official and getting laid out, and constant flubbing of pucks on rushes or even when trying to just dump the puck into the O zone.

Other players were terrible as well, but they had moments. Kakko was like this almost all season, again...

That Finnish aura of confidence is starting to evolve to arrogance and looking like someone that doesn't see the need or space for himself to improve, or maybe this is just what we have. Either way it is close to done here, because how can the org even justify giving him a raise on the next contract besides feeling obligated to based on his age? His play certainly does not justify it and he is going to want some money and a specific role which no one can give him since he failed with it this season