Player Discussion Kaapo Kakko

[The New Russian Five]

And I have clearly said several times that I’m sure Laf has been putting in the off season work and developing.
Of COURSE pre season counts when you are talking about how a player, especially a young player trying to win a bigger role, looks.
And the detractors were saying he looked EXACTLY the same. No speed, no skill, “his next contract should be a PTO.” Without confidence you will just not see the off season improvements a young player makes. And Lavi went out of his way to give him that. Best decision he made all year was to staple Laf to Bread and live with any growing pains.
As far as Kakko, different players get confidence different ways. I’ve said he’s NEVER going to be on Laf’s level, what I’m saying is with confidence he’ll be a very valuable player. Could I be wrong? Of course I could. But we can’t tell yet. I cannot say that stapling KK to the top line will bring that out, but stapling him to the bottom of the lineup sure won’t… personally I think integrating him into the PK would be a good step.

If you're someone who takes pre-season analysis seriously, I don't think there is anything valuable you and I can get from debating. So let's just stop here.

 

[Baby Punisher]

If i trade him. Its for a young 2nd pair dman, or a top 15 pick. Nothing less.

He is at worst a middle six forward, who still has some potential.

He is by no means a dump like some peoplw think.

You aren't getting that much for him. I'd venture to say that if you want THAT much for him you would have to throw in a prospect, or another bottom 6 player.

 

[OthmannOut]

The sad reality is if Kakko really took that next step, we would have the ammo to beat Florida. Imagine if both Laf AND Kakko were playing their hearts out. We would have been able to slot him on the first line and added better depth pieces at the deadline instead of giving Roslovic time there where he sucked.
But Kakko got injured and just struggled. Tough to see. Don't give up on him unless the returnis strong. Sign him to a lower end deal and hopefully it ends up being a steal of a contract.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

If you forget where he's drafted, Kakko is an incredibly valuable middle six forward when healthy.

Key being, when healthy.

He seems to be out of the lineup a lot, but when he plays consistently he's a possession driving forward at 5v5 with elite defense, who can very reasonably hit 20 goals and the 40-50 pt mark, as he was trending towards that heading into last season. At 23 years old, it's very easy to see that if he stays healthy, he has a lot of room to grow into a much more offensively gifted version of Jesper Fast. I know that isn't what we thought we were drafting, but that's still an incredibly valuable player to have on the roster.

If we can sign him at under 2.5m, and the team thinks he can stay healthy, I think keeping him is a no brainer.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

If i trade him. Its for a young 2nd pair dman, or a top 15 pick. Nothing less.

He is at worst a middle six forward, who still has some potential.

He is by no means a dump like some peoplw think.

Zero shot he brings a top 15 pick. Come on. Let's be realistic.

We should absolutely see what is out there in the "high ceiling, low floor" realm of prospects. The Avs seem like such a logical choice right now.

I fail to see why we should keep him for $2.4M when he adds nothing to this team. Trade him to the Avs for Oskar Olausson.

If you forget where he's drafted, Kakko is an incredibly valuable middle six forward when healthy.

Key being, when healthy.

He seems to be out of the lineup a lot, but when he plays consistently he's a possession driving forward at 5v5 with elite defense, who can very reasonably hit 20 goals and the 40-50 pt mark, as he was trending towards that heading into last season. At 23 years old, it's very easy to see that if he stays healthy, he has a lot of room to grow into a much more offensively gifted version of Jesper Fast. I know that isn't what we thought we were drafting, but that's still an incredibly valuable player to have on the roster.

If we can sign him at under 2.5m, and the team thinks he can stay healthy, I think keeping him is a no brainer.

I mean, he's had a single season out of 5 where he paced that and he barely paced it.

I'm never one to miss out on crow if I need to eat it, but I just am not sure why he can "very reasonably" do that when he's done it one season out of 5 so far. If anything, 40-50 points seems to be an outlier for him right now.

Look, I'd love for the guy to prove me wrong, but there is just zero indication right now that he will.

He could start the process by actually working on his skating for once instead of just ignoring it.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Fair, but
Lowry 31 years of age.
Eric Staal 39 years of age.

I thought he meant Jordan Staal. The Penguins got tired of Jordan even though he was a bigger scorer in Pitt and traded him to Carolina for a 1st round pick. I think its probably unlikely that we can get a 1st for KK unless it was a trade deadline deal.

 

[NickyFotiu]

The sad reality is if Kakko really took that next step, we would have the ammo to beat Florida. Imagine if both Laf AND Kakko were playing their hearts out. We would have been able to slot him on the first line and added better depth pieces at the deadline instead of giving Roslovic time there where he sucked.
But Kakko got injured and just struggled. Tough to see. Don't give up on him unless the returnis strong. Sign him to a lower end deal and hopefully it ends up being a steal of a contract.

That is an interesting theory but I do not know. I think all 3 of Fla topline players were better than ours by a sizable margin. I think Kachook is better in the playoffs than Bread. I think Carolinas top dpair is much better prepared to play playoff hockey than our top line D pair.

 

[Atax]

Crazy that some of you think he has any value. It would be a steal to get a 2nd round pick for him.

 

[noncents]

Crazy that some of you think he has any value. It would be a steal to get a 2nd round pick for him.

nah crazy is saying "this player has disappointed my personal expectations and i am so upset about it that i want them gone from my sight at any cost"

 

[Filthy Dangles]

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If you forget where he's drafted, Kakko is an incredibly valuable middle six forward when healthy.

Key being, when healthy.

He seems to be out of the lineup a lot, but when he plays consistently he's a possession driving forward at 5v5 with elite defense, who can very reasonably hit 20 goals and the 40-50 pt mark, as he was trending towards that heading into last season. At 23 years old, it's very easy to see that if he stays healthy, he has a lot of room to grow into a much more offensively gifted version of Jesper Fast. I know that isn't what we thought we were drafting, but that's still an incredibly valuable player to have on the roster.

If we can sign him at under 2.5m, and the team thinks he can stay healthy, I think keeping him is a no brainer.

If you use shot attempts, he's a 50% possession player for his career.

As for the defense thing, he plays limited minutes and limited role (3rd line, no PK, doesn't win or take draws, does not play against top lines much at all, does not play other high leverage situations like 5v6, win special teams or late game faceoffs etc.)

He gets pretty good results in cupcake limited minutes, that doesn't make you elite and he better be getting those results if he's not contributing in other ways and scoring at an extremely modest rate.

You are right that they shouldn't just throw him away for nothing, but to call him a very valuable player is almost laughably overrating him. He's a run of the mill 3rd liner at this point.

 

[Atax]

nah crazy is saying "this player has disappointed my personal expectations and i am so upset about it that i want them gone from my sight at any cost"

I'm not upset. It happens. Some prospects dont pan out.
I dont think its my own personal expectation to want production out of a 2nd overall pick. I think thats the standard for most fans.
He's a 3rd liner who cant PK, drive a line or score goals. Maybe he becomes more, but sometimes a spade is a spade. I just dont think he really has any value at this point. Probably a 3rd round pick if we're lucky.

 

[OthmannOut]

OK how about this: for the posters who want to trade him for whatever we can get, how many of you thought the same about Laf?
Because like Laf, Kakko has promising even strength numbers which aren't inflated by PP1 time.. When you add in his strong defensive skills and possession, he has a very interesting trajectory if he pans out.
The best thing we can do is put him on the PK and give him more responsibilities. There isn't any reason to have Vesey out at the end of the game in crunch time instead of Kakko.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

Zero shot he brings a top 15 pick. Come on. Let's be realistic.

We should absolutely see what is out there in the "high ceiling, low floor" realm of prospects. The Avs seem like such a logical choice right now.

I fail to see why we should keep him for $2.4M when he adds nothing to this team. Trade him to the Avs for Oskar Olausson.



I mean, he's had a single season out of 5 where he paced that and he barely paced it.

I'm never one to miss out on crow if I need to eat it, but I just am not sure why he can "very reasonably" do that when he's done it one season out of 5 so far. If anything, 40-50 points seems to be an outlier for him right now.

Look, I'd love for the guy to prove me wrong, but there is just zero indication right now that he will.

He could start the process by actually working on his skating for once instead of just ignoring it.

If you just take his career averages, he's at over 15 goals and 30 pts, with two of the last three seasons being closer to 20 goals and 40 pts averages, and that's for a player who is still only 22. History tells us that a player producing like this at 22, while healthy, is very probable to score more between his age 23-28 seasons. Kakko's main issue right now is staying healthy, because he's only come close to a full healthy season one time in his career.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

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If you use shot attempts, he's a 50% possession player for his career.

As for the defense thing, he plays limited minutes and limited role (3rd line, no PK, doesn't win or take draws, does not play against top lines much at all, does not play other high leverage situations like 5v6, win special teams or late game faceoffs etc.)

He gets pretty good results in cupcake limited minutes, that doesn't make you elite and he better be getting those results if he's not contributing in other ways and scoring at an extremely modest rate.

You are right that they shouldn't just throw him away for nothing, but to call him a very valuable player is almost laughably overrating him. He's a run of the mill 3rd liner at this point.

50% possession on this team is...pretty good. 50% CF and +2.4 CF Rel for the career of a 22 year old player, and 50 more takeaways than giveaways total, is pretty damn good. Especially at around 50% offensive zone starts. And he certainly has NOT been given cupcake minutes. The kid has frequently been matched against other top lines on the first and second line. This is a good player, possession driving, hard to knock off the puck, defensively responsible, and more than capable of scoring 20 goals if he has a full season. And still only 22. If he wasn't drafted 2OA, people would have a much different opinion of him.

 

[Sayba]

Crazy that some of you think he has any value. It would be a steal to get a 2nd round pick for him.

You do remember Lias Andersdon right? If he could get a 2nd, I’m sure Kakko can as well.

50% possession on this team is...pretty good. 50% CF and +2.4 CF Rel for the career of a 22 year old player, and 50 more takeaways than giveaways total, is pretty damn good. Especially at around 50% offensive zone starts. And he certainly has NOT been given cupcake minutes. The kid has frequently been matched against other top lines on the first and second line. This is a good player, possession driving, hard to knock off the puck, defensively responsible, and more than capable of scoring 20 goals if he has a full season. And still only 22. If he wasn't drafted 2OA, people would have a much different opinion of him.

You did watch the playoffs? He was terrible against Carolina and Florida.

 

[noncents]

I'm not upset. It happens. Some prospects dont pan out.
I dont think its my own personal expectation to want production out of a 2nd overall pick. I think thats the standard for most fans.
He's a 3rd liner who cant PK, drive a line or score goals. Maybe he becomes more, but sometimes a spade is a spade. I just dont think he really has any value at this point. Probably a 3rd round pick if we're lucky.

wasn't talking to you specifically about bein upset, there are plenty. and yes having an expectation about the 2nd overall pick is natural - not having adjusted the expectation for this player since his draft year is what is crazy. again that's not necessarily you.

though i'm curious where you get the idea that he can't PK. when has it been actually tried?

 

[Atax]

wasn't talking to you specifically about bein upset, there are plenty. and yes having an expectation about the 2nd overall pick is natural - not having adjusted the expectation for this player since his draft year is what is crazy. again that's not necessarily you.

though i'm curious where you get the idea that he can't PK. when has it been actually tried?

That's fair.
3 different coaches and none want to put him out there. Granted one was a college coach and another was Mr. Sniffles. Probably shouldve been given more opportunities at it.

 

[Blasds]

I suggested getting rid of this guy at the very beginning of the season. But there are always professionals who will say that he's cheap, so he's needed for the team. Or some other similar nonsense. It's funny.

 

[noncents]

That's fair.
3 different coaches and none want to put him out there. Granted one was a college coach and another was Mr. Sniffles. Probably shouldve been given more opportunities at it.

no coach wants to give any young player a PK opportunity. it's so dumb. chytil should have been PKing for years. instead we got rooney

 

[bleedblue94]

That’s the argument for holding on to him though. We probably aren’t going to get reasonable value for him this off-season. Of course he’s not untouchable, but he’s not a throwaway either.

But he has no home here, he has no role. He is a third liner here that plays with whatever players we have that aren't on the top 2 lines. Kakko can't hold a top 6 roles, he isn't skilled enough nor can he even keep up on rush plays. So he is a 3rd liners that doesn't pk. If we are keeping him for appearance sakes then we are doing a massive disservice

 

[bleedblue94]

If you just take his career averages, he's at over 15 goals and 30 pts, with two of the last three seasons being closer to 20 goals and 40 pts averages, and that's for a player who is still only 22. History tells us that a player producing like this at 22, while healthy, is very probable to score more between his age 23-28 seasons. Kakko's main issue right now is staying healthy, because he's only come close to a full healthy season one time in his career.

Then let someone else overvalue him based on guessing what he will become. Watching him his entire career and nothing has changed or evolved. Not a single wow moment of skill.

Below average shot
Below average speed
Below average ability off the rush
Below average playmaking (all f***ing playoffs he threw hope passes blindly to the slot from below the goal line and then snapped his head in frustration because no one was there)

He occasionally shows above average board play and possession

He is an offensive black hole that doesn't create offense.

 

[Chytilmania]

feel bad for him. His skating is sub-NHL level and is the sole reason he can't hack it.

How did no scouts realize this?

Did he have setbacks during COVID? He seemed like a no brainer, alpha 40 goal scorer. Maybe he got weak and slow during COVID?

I also think him not getting PP time to use his (at the time) good one timer hurt his development as well. I thought he would have been great opposite of either Zib or Panarin.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

If you just take his career averages, he's at over 15 goals and 30 pts, with two of the last three seasons being closer to 20 goals and 40 pts averages, and that's for a player who is still only 22. History tells us that a player producing like this at 22, while healthy, is very probable to score more between his age 23-28 seasons. Kakko's main issue right now is staying healthy, because he's only come close to a full healthy season one time in his career.

Come on. This is just such a dishonest way of framing this.

Kakko has had one single season where he's paced 40 points (sadly, he couldn't even pace 41 points - not even a .5 ppg pace!!!!). Why are you adding in random qualifiers to push him over in other seasons to try and prove a point?

Like, we can't even have a serious conversation when you're just going to start the discussion in a dishonest manner.

25 point pace this year (pathetic)
40 points last year (yayyyy)
34 point pace in 21/22 (About 17-18% off the pace you claim he was on - 40 points)
29 point pace in 20/21
29 point pace in 19/20

I feel like every single conversation about this guy someone says or does something dishonest. I get that some of you people have fond feelings for him for whatever reason, but get your facts straight first as I am one that will look into this stuff and actually check what you say.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Did he have setbacks during COVID? He seemed like a no brainer, alpha 40 goal scorer. Maybe he got weak and slow during COVID?

I also think him not getting PP time to use his (at the time) good one timer hurt his development as well. I thought he would have been great opposite of either Zib or Panarin.

Weak and slow from COVID? No. He literally just never improved his skating. At all. He never did power skating classes. Never put in any real work. His skating has been his number one flaw with a hail of bullets ever since he was drafted.

Yet we've seen literally zero improvement.

I don't know if this is the team or him. I can't fathom the team being this out to lunch on his skating, so . . . I have no clue.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Another Statboy Steve bust. Krapsoft, Lisa Andersson, and Suckvist.

It's not a Statboy Steven bust. It's a Nik Bobrov bust (well not Kakko he was a unanimous #2 prospect in the draft). Steven is European and follows Europeans more closely. It's not his fault our European scouting sucks.