Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[417]

In the rearview mirror is the shrinking possibility that this guy could develop his offense/skill game against meaningful competition and becomes a quality 70-80 point, top line forward.

But he can also do this IN the NHL.

And in the windshield we see the increasing likelihood that Slaf will be some sort of Armia/Anderson/Lafreniere type of vanilla forward. Not necessarly players to frown upon if the contract is right but not what you are looking for when you draft 1st overall.

Do you think the only way to prevent this from happening is for him to spend some time in the AHL?

But why didn't that work with Armia and Anderson, who both spent a considerable amount of time in the AHL before becoming full time NHL players?

 

[calder candidate]

What's good for Poitras, isn't necessarily what's good for Slafkovsky, especially not right now.

Doing something cause it can't hurt, I'm not sure is a reason to do that very thing. Especially when you're trying to integrate a player into your lineup and to make him apply NHL habits.

He's played a total of 70ish games, we’re starting to see what he’s been working on being applied in real time.

Not sure what would be the point of halting that personally, especially given he's already played in a WJC.

No one arguing that he should be going to going to WJC now, but last year… your point is that Poitras isn’t in a important role so it ok to go to WJC every player is different but your making a argument against your self and making my point Slaf was not being used in a significant role why wasn’t the WJC an option, we are talking about missing like 4 games. Slaf has always been pretty good defensively it him being timid and hesitant that is he issue these 4 NHL didn’t move the Needle at all to integrate the line up or having NHL habite.
When your have to make a decision you have to consider all possible outcome sometime not hurting is the best option…
best case going to to WJC finding is swag and coming back a impact player,
Going to WJC having a good Tourney but not having having any immediate impact in the NHL
Going to WJC having a bad tourney and not having a impact in the NHL
Going to the WJC and having a career ending injury
There a bunch of result in between but the most probable outcome was good play at WJC little to no immediate impact for the NHL, (except a bit a of positive vibe) when your looking for the outcome of playing these 4 NHL,
I would say that him instantly becoming a impact player was less likely and him being injured was more likely vs. WJC and the most likely result was zero impact and that isn’t in hindsight that would have been the evaluation at the time…

He had play WJC has a underager with a team that had no shot at winning, he could have lead a team to a goal medal it isn’t the same and overall could have been a positive, in a season where there was a lot of negativity around him.

I’m not trying to convince you that they should have sent him ( even if that is my opinion) I just trying to get you to acknowledge that is was a viable option it isn’t crazy thinking it probably closer to 50/50. Boston sending Poitras by you own assessment make a point that maybe he should have…

 

[Heffyhoof]

Come on Slaf, get some points in the B2B and cleanse this thread for a time once more

 

[BaseballCoach]

Not sure what would be the point of halting that personally, especially given he's already played in a WJC.

Never underestimate the level of confidence that racking up points against lesser competition can deliver to a fan desperate to see a "tank" work out.

Look how a good tournament made Joshua Roy's fans confident.

 

[ReHabs]

Never underestimate the level of confidence that racking up points against lesser competition can deliver to a fan desperate to see a "tank" work out.

Look how a good tournament made Joshua Roy's fans confident.

And Slafkovsky scoring two whole points against Kazakh plumbers and longshoreman did nothing for his reputation, is that right?

What about Slafkovsky inability to rack up points against the competition he ought to be scoring on -- for the third straight season -- doesn't it follow fans would lose confidence in his ability to rack up points if Slafkovsky fails to score against his league competition for the third straight season?

 

[BaseballCoach]

In the rearview mirror is the shrinking possibility that this guy could develop his offense/skill game against meaningful competition

"Shrinking" possibility? Compared to when? Thirty games ago? Strongly disagree.

and becomes a quality 70-80 point, top line forward.

Whether he becomes a 70-80 point forward partly depends on who he is playing with. There is no question he is a great fit on a line with Suzuki and Caufield. But are they point per game players? I think that possibility might be shrinking faster than Slaf's chances to become a strong player.

And in the windshield we see the increasing likelihood that Slaf will be some sort of Armia/Anderson/Lafreniere type of vanilla forward. Not necessarly players to frown upon if the contract is right but not what you are looking for when you draft 1st overall.

I don't know what you look for in the games you are watching. To me, Slaf makes more offensive contributions every game than Armia or Anderson have done when given a chance on the top line, even though Slaf is 19 and the other two are or just were in the prime of their careers.

 

[ReHabs]

Real deal for a 1OA in 2022.
Real deal as in he will be a cornerstone for our team.

I can't possibly see how you have this confirmed for you at this time. Even his biggest fans demand half a decade of patience. But okay, differen't strokes.

 

[BaseballCoach]

What does this even mean?

Real deal for a 1OA in the NHL?
Real deal as in he belongs in the NHL?
Real deal as in he will be a cornerstone for our team?

Real deal that he belongs AND will be a cornerstone of this team.

Strong possibility he will turn out as a good choice at 1OA (even if others may work out too)

 

[admiralcadillac]

The rookie 2nd round pick has more points in general, more points in the last 7 games and a better pt/60. Yup, not comparable.


Many would argue with you and disagree about this until they're blue in the face. @BaseballCoach for instance.

Is your argument now that him playing better now is evidence that his development in the NHL was a mistake?

What does this even mean?

Real deal for a 1OA in the NHL?
Real deal as in he belongs in the NHL?
Real deal as in he will be a cornerstone for our team?

Real deal as in he shouldn’t have been in the NHL?
Real deal as in he needs to be in the AHL?
Real deal as in he belongs back in Finland?

 

[417]

No one arguing that he should be going to going to WJC now, but last year… your point is that Poitras isn’t in a important role so it ok to go to WJC every player is different but your making a argument against your self and making my point Slaf was not being used in a significant role why wasn’t the WJC an option, we are talking about missing like 4 games. Slaf has always been pretty good defensively it him being timid and hesitant that is he issue these 4 NHL didn’t move the Needle at all to integrate the line up or having NHL habite.

I'm not arguing against myself, i'm arguing that Poitras' situation this year, with the Bruins, in his first WJC, is not the same situation as Slafkovsky last year, on the Habs, having already played in a WJC (not to mention a WC and Olympics) there was nothing to be gained from sending him there other than allowing fans to watch him for a few weeks.

I would have started him in the AHL last year but they decided otherwise, it's just time to accept that decision and to stop acting like it changed the course of his career.

It didn't.

When your have to make a decision you have to consider all possible outcome sometime not hurting is the best option…
best case going to to WJC finding is swag and coming back a impact player,
Going to WJC having a good Tourney but not having having any immediate impact in the NHL
Going to WJC having a bad tourney and not having a impact in the NHL
Going to the WJC and having a career ending injury
There a bunch of result in between but the most probable outcome was good play at WJC little to no immediate impact for the NHL, (except a bit a of positive vibe) when your looking for the outcome of playing these 4 NHL,
I would say that him instantly becoming a impact player was less likely and him being injured was more likely vs. WJC and the most likely result was zero impact and that isn’t in hindsight that would have been the evaluation at the time…

So what would have been the point, if the team was trying to integrate him into an NHL lineup and for him to learn to master NHL style habits?

He had play WJC has a underager with a team that had no shot at winning, he could have lead a team to a goal medal it isn’t the same and overall could have been a positive, in a season where there was a lot of negativity around him.

We can't pick and choose when these WJC runs matter and when they don't. Throughout history, there have players who went to the WJC and won gold and were never heard from again, there are some who used that platform to propel themselves to NHL stardom, etc.

It's a 3 week tournament, it's a tiny part of a prospects season...I think we've overrated it's significance, especially in Canada where it's become tradition and TSN keeps pumping the idea that you have to be at this tournament or else your doomed.

It's really not that deep.

I’m not trying to convince you that they should have sent him ( even if that is my opinion) I just trying to get you to acknowledge that is was a viable option it isn’t crazy thinking it probably closer to 50/50. Boston sending Poitras by you own assessment make a point that maybe he should have…

I don't agree they should have sent him but I understand why fans wanted/want to see it.

Again for Poitras though, it's a totally different situation.

Never underestimate the level of confidence that racking up points against lesser competition can deliver to a fan desperate to see a "tank" work out.

lol oh I know this is entirely about easing insecurities and nothing to do with actual development.

Look how a good tournament made Joshua Roy's fans confident.

It's funny, Joshua Roy has been one of the most productive Montreal Canadiens prospect at the WJC, if not the most productive.

He's still learning what it is to be a pro right now...WJCs are cool, they're hardly the magic pill people make it out to be.

Amateur is one thing...being a professional hockey player is a whole other, the former can't replicate the latter.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Is your argument now that him playing better now is evidence that his development in the NHL was a mistake?

Real deal as in he shouldn’t have been in the NHL?
Real deal as in he needs to be in the AHL?
Real deal as in he belongs back in Finland?

You can add real deal in that he does have a hockey IQ and some skill after all.

 

[BaseballCoach]

He had play WJC has a underager with a team that had no shot at winning, he could have lead a team to a goal medal it isn’t the same and overall could have been a positive, in a season where there was a lot of negativity around him.

LOL.

There was no negativity around HIM. His coaches, teammates and the GM were all pleased with how he was learning and improving. That is what counts.

Some FANS had negativity. Teams don't normally send players away from the team for weeks to satisfy some worried fans.

 

[cave troll]

I get it. The only time I was ever on "team AHL" was at the beginning of this year when things looked dire still. Since a month or so ago, however, he's taken leaps and bounds. I believe in those respects, like you, he has nothing to learn. He's looked great on the first line since being promoted too.

I am still concerned about his NHL scoring, however. You say "It's pretty much clear at this point" that it will come. How is it clear?

I'm asking genuinely, I don't mean any disrespect. I just don't see how it's clear. It MAY come. It COULD come. But I don't think that it's clear by any means. Caufield busting out of a slump and scoring more, that's likely to me. He shoots way too much and way too hard not to. Slaf? I don't know.

The way he's improved so quickly in other areas DOES encourage me. But I still think he's passing wayyyy too much. It could be a rookie-not-trying-to-overstep type thing, but I feel that in the AHL, he would take way more offensive liberties and be a bit more selfish. Xhekaj didn't like his demotion, but in my opinion, if the team feels like he needs to work on something, they did the right thing. I think it could be the same in this case.

With 1,4 SOG we can't expect him to be any kind of relevant goalscorer and producer.
Yes, he did improve from 1,07 in 22/23 to 1.41 in 23/24 but he'll need to triple that number to be any goalscorer of relevance.
Good thing is, if he doesn't hit 50 in his third year we can give him some cheap bridge and hope he'll explode as a late bloomer. If not, well, new picks will join the roster.

 

[Kennerback]

I can't possibly see how you have this confirmed for you at this time. Even his biggest fans demand half a decade of patience. But okay, differen't strokes.

I can tell that he’ll be a cornerstone because I already know he can bring things that will be a massive asset to the team that are other than points. Like say Bob Probert. But he’ll have his own different style.

D’s are difficult to judge, but he’s easily up there with the forward‘s of 2022. It’s not a bad choice that year and he certainly won’t bust. That’s what I mean as real deal. It’s not that he’ll be the best for sure.

But if you think a cornerstone or #1OA needs to be a top point producer, he might not be your cup of tea.

 

[ReHabs]

Is your argument now that him playing better now is evidence that his development in the NHL was a mistake?

He’s not playing sufficiently better. His scoring rate has gone DOWN. Twenty rookies are ahead of him, 4 or 5 players from his draft year are ahead of him.

Good players put up points. You can sleep tight with your moral victories but a player who can’t score is not worth talking about.

Real deal as in he shouldn’t have been in the NHL?
Real deal as in he needs to be in the AHL?
Real deal as in he belongs back in Finland?

Yeah as we can see he would’ve been better off in Finland last year and would’ve scored more in the NHL this year. He would’ve been better off in Finland this year and would’ve scored a bunch in the NHL next year. But I’m not debating this any more.

It’s not a bad choice that year and he certainly won’t bust. That’s what I mean as real deal. It’s not that he’ll be the best for sure.

Okay well if you mean “he’s the real deal, he is not a bust” that’s a far cry from “he’s the real deal, he’s a bonafide 1OA”.

I don’t mind either way but was just curious what you meant.

 

[morhilane]

With 1,4 SOG we can't expect him to be any kind of relevant goalscorer and producer.
Yes, he did improve from 1,07 in 22/23 to 1.41 in 23/24 but he'll need to triple that number to be any goalscorer of relevance.
Good thing is, if he doesn't hit 50 in his third year we can give him some cheap bridge and hope he'll explode as a late bloomer. If not, well, new picks will join the roster.

Slaf has become a lot more constant taking shots since November so his SOG avg is increasing since the season started. He had 3 games without as shot on net in October 9 games, but 5 for all of November and December 22 games.

And in the last 5 games, he's been 2+ sog except against the Jets (0) and that is with him missing more often than last year on shot attempts (31.1% vs 42.1% this year, this is misses on unlocked shots).

He's going to do lot more than 1.4 SOG once he's really up to speed with the NHL.

 

[le_sean]

He would have scored more this year in the NHL if he stayed in Finland last year is such an odd things to say with 100% conviction. Just creating fantasy scenarios that aren’t backed by anything tangible is quite hilarious.

And like I said a while back, it was completely predictable that his obvious great play would get diminished by those looking at HockeyDB. I’ll go even a step further and say if he was getting points, the same posters would say they were undeserved and that his linemates did everything. It’s not a winnable argument when people have zero ability to admit ever being wrong.

 

[417]

He would have scored more this year in the NHL if he stayed in Finland last year is such an odd things to say with 100% conviction. Just creating fantasy scenarios that aren’t backed by anything tangible is quite hilarious.

It's amazing to me how often that kind of stuff gets repeated mechanically amongst fans and media. It's repeated so much, people actually believe it.

And like I said a while back, it was completely predictable that his obvious great play would get diminished by those looking at HockeyDB. I’ll go even a step further and say if he was getting points, the same posters would say they were undeserved and that his linemates did everything. It’s not a winnable argument when people have zero ability to admit ever being wrong.

100%

 

[cave troll]

Slaf has become a lot more constant taking shots since November so his SOG avg is increasing since the season started. He had 3 games without as shot on net in October 9 games, but 5 for all of November and December 22 games.

And in the last 5 games, he's been 2+ sog except against the Jets (0) and that is with him missing more often than last year on shot attempts (31.1% vs 42.1% this year, this is misses on unlocked shots).

He's going to do lot more than 1.4 SOG once he's really up to speed with the NHL.

This is Slaf's problem:
His second year: 44 shots in 31 games
As a rookie: 42 shots in 39 games
Fantilli: 82 shots in 33 games - rookie
Bedard: 100 shots in 31 games - rookie
Carlsson: 46 shots on 22 games - rookie
Cooley: 49 shots in 31 games - rookie

If you wonder why some of those players will be a career PPG players, while we'll be opening a champagne when Slaf hits 50 pts we should remember with what kind of resolve and confidence in their own abilities these players came to NHL, and how Slaf came. He is still looking for the pass first instead of opponent's goal.
We're in dire need of a top class goalscorer. Slaf will never be that

 

[calder candidate]

LOL.

There was no negativity around HIM. His coaches, teammates and the GM were all pleased with how he was learning and improving. That is what counts.

Some FANS had negativity. Teams don't normally send players away from the team for weeks to satisfy some worried fans.

I don’t care what fan think and I would not do any move to satisfy public opinion if it was not the correct move… You are taken a possible by product and framing it as if this was the reason to make the move or what I think the decision should have been based on…
He was not contributing, he wasn’t being use in a significant role, sending him to WJC he could have had play against significant competition, that was the core of the arguments for sending him, you might still think that it isn’t worth it but you are the first to point out that Poitras was playing a lesser role so that why it was ok to send him, only giving strength to the previous agreement to send Slaf.
To take some pressure off a 18yo away from home get to interact with friends in is language that is a by product again not the reason to make a move but when you are weighting the options and impact that in the positive column.
That being said I completely disagree that there wasn’t any negativity around him, it not only fan and social media there were written, TV, radio media 24/7 all questioning if he was worth 1st, was he the right pick, questioning is hockey IQ, offensive up side and every single move he made, so maybe negativity isn’t the most accurate word pressure and scrutiny might be more accurate… but because this is MTL he was 1st OA pressure was pretty extreme for a 18yo, maybe you didn’t feel it, but just the fact that GM, coach and teammate had to field so many question about Slaf is a confirmation of that scrutiny was real and again it might not be negative but it not positive and team couldn’t shield him from it, if a team could case like Drouin and countless other, mental health issue and turning to substance abuse to cope would not be a thing in sport.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

This is Slaf's problem:
His second year: 44 shots in 31 games
As a rookie: 42 shots in 39 games
Fantilli: 82 shots in 33 games - rookie
Bedard: 100 shots in 31 games - rookie
Carlsson: 46 shots on 22 games - rookie
Cooley: 49 shots in 31 games - rookie

If you wonder why some of those players will be a career PPG players, while we'll be opening a champagne when Slaf hits 50 pts we should remember with what kind of resolve and confidence in their own abilities these players came to NHL, and how Slaf came. He is still looking for the pass first instead of opponent's goal.
We're in dire need of a top class goalscorer. Slaf will never be that

While I’m not trying to limit his offensive upside, Slafkovsky is a different type of player. Has Bedard or Cooley yet to throw a body check this year? Some players take longer to reach their respective offensive peaks. While he may never be a PPG player , he should score enough and coupled with his physicality and energy, Slafkovsky should be an important player for us going forward. He makes his linemates play bigger.

 

[waitin425]

Slaf has something that can't be taught. His size, reach and aggressive play is something that impacts the game far beyond an individual players point totals.

Will he be a pure sniper, 50g player? No.

Can you score 20-30 goals playing hard nosed in front of the net? Yes, he can, and I bet he will.

My current ceiling prediction on Slaf is a 70-85 point power forward.

I still want our team to acquire a purely offensive player in addition to our current crop.

 

[417]

I don’t care what fan think and I would not do any move to satisfy public opinion if it was not the correct move… You are taken a possible by product and framing it as if this was the reason to make the move or what I think the decision should have been based on…
He was not contributing, he wasn’t being use in a significant role, sending him to WJC he could have had play against significant competition, that was the core of the arguments for sending him, you might still think that it isn’t worth it but you are the first to point out that Poitras was playing a lesser role so that why it was ok to send him, only giving strength to the previous agreement to send Slaf.
To take some pressure off a 18yo away from home get to interact with friends in is language that is a by product again not the reason to make a move but when you are weighting the options and impact that in the positive column.
That being said I completely disagree that there wasn’t any negativity around him, it not only fan and social media there were written, TV, radio media 24/7 all questioning if he was worth 1st, was he the right pick, questioning is hockey IQ, offensive up side and every single move he made, so maybe negativity isn’t the most accurate word pressure and scrutiny might be more accurate… but because this is MTL he was 1st OA pressure was pretty extreme for a 18yo, maybe you didn’t feel it, but just the fact that GM, coach and teammate had to field so many question about Slaf is a confirmation of that scrutiny was real and again it might not be negative but it not positive and team couldn’t shield him from it, if a team could case like Drouin and countless other, mental health issue and turning to substance abuse to cope would not be a thing in sport.

More significant than the competition he was facing IN the NHL?

Is playing Austria/Germany/Latvia/Sweden U20s more significant competition than playing against ACTUAL NHL teams?

Is this the argument you want to run with?

 

[417]

This is Slaf's problem:
His second year: 44 shots in 31 games
As a rookie: 42 shots in 39 games
Fantilli: 82 shots in 33 games - rookie
Bedard: 100 shots in 31 games - rookie
Carlsson: 46 shots on 22 games - rookie
Cooley: 49 shots in 31 games - rookie

He hasn't even played a full NHL season yet...this isn't uncommon for young players, this is what the adjustment to the NHL looks like. For guys like Fantili or Bedard, not as big of an adjustment.

But go look at Byfield's first 82 games, he was averaging about 1.3 shots per game...this year he's right at 2 shots per game.

The problem is not Slafkovsky, it's that you don't have patience and understand that it's a process. You don't want to see players develop IN the NHL, you want to see finished products.

If you wonder why some of those players will be a career PPG players, while we'll be opening a champagne when Slaf hits 50 pts we should remember with what kind of resolve and confidence in their own abilities these players came to NHL, and how Slaf came. He is still looking for the pass first instead of opponent's goal.
We're in dire need of a top class goalscorer. Slaf will never be that

He definitely seems like more of a playmaker than goal scorer at this point...that doesn't mean he won't be able to score one day. But right now he's learning how to deal with the reduced time and space and the better goaltending at this level.

 

[Captain Mountain]

This is Slaf's problem:
His second year: 44 shots in 31 games
As a rookie: 42 shots in 39 games
Fantilli: 82 shots in 33 games - rookie
Bedard: 100 shots in 31 games - rookie
Carlsson: 46 shots on 22 games - rookie
Cooley: 49 shots in 31 games - rookie

If you wonder why some of those players will be a career PPG players, while we'll be opening a champagne when Slaf hits 50 pts we should remember with what kind of resolve and confidence in their own abilities these players came to NHL, and how Slaf came. He is still looking for the pass first instead of opponent's goal.
We're in dire need of a top class goalscorer. Slaf will never be that

Bedard is the best NHL prospect we've seen since McDavid. Fantilli and Carlsson are among the best we've seen since then too. Slaf shoots and shot at around the same rate as Cooley both of his seasons in the NHL.

I'm not sure what you're complaining about? That Montreal had 1st OA in 2022 instead of 2023? No one is arguing that the top of the 2023 draft was vastly better than the 2022 draft. I'm not sure what the point of complaining about that is.

That Montreal picked Slaf instead of Cooley? Its pretty premature to suggest that, but they produce at the same rate 5v5 and Slaf does a lot more on the ice generally. Cooley'd been better on the PP, but he also isn't a driving force there.

Montreal's in need of elite offensive talent more than a "top class goalscorer".