Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

So far, Schmaltz.

But are we so far or so early?

Because for now, he doesn't belong. Almost the entire planet hockey can see it, except for the big egos running the show

 

[HuGort]

Don't worry dude,


They're having Slaf watch tape of Matthew Tkachuk.

What better development could you ask for?

Long time junior coaches generally best for teams with lot of development involved. They got experience. Probably more where Tourigny Team Canada head coach also. Slaf been handled differently

 

[Jaynki]

Because for now, he doesn't belong. Almost the entire planet hockey can see it, except for the big egos running the show

Agree on this.

Intellectual honesty would lead to acknowledging that indeed he dont look ready to be a contributor.

On the other hand, we also have to acknowledge that a 19YO with this level of skill can sometimes turn his performance on a dime. We ve seen it with Caufield.

As for the big egos running the show, i don't think they share our simple linear view of development where we think a player should dominate AHL then come and have an immediate impact.

Lets not act like these guy are here by luck our mistake. They have done their things in the hockey world and we should at least give them the benefit of the doubt. That does not mean a free pass nor not questioning what they are doing. It simply means giving everyone a fair chance and a fair leash. We are being trigger-happy right now.

 

[Heffyhoof]

This is the reincarnation of the Kotkaniemi threads of old and I'm personally loving it.
It's the D+2 year going into his 50th hockey game, not just NHL, played since being drafted and already every prognosticator has proclaimed the future! In fact, this player that went 1OA and was a consensus top-5 pick (Bob's list at 1st) is actually completely bereft of any skill at the game of hockey even!

There's plenty of runway left to develop the kid. Should he be in the AHL right now? Most likely. Is it the end of the world and an unsalvageable situation? No. The organization will likely wait until at least the 20 game mark before making a decision.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Agree on this.

Intellectual honesty would lead to acknowledging that indeed he dont look ready to be a contributor.

On the other hand, we also have to acknowledge that a 19YO with this level of skill can sometimes turn his performance on a dime. We ve seen it with Caufield.

As for the big egos running the show, i don't think they share our simple linear view of development where we think a player should dominate AHL then come and have an immediate impact.

Lets not act like these guy are here by luck our mistake. They have done their things in the hockey world and we should at least give them the benefit of the doubt. That does not mean a free pass nor not questioning what they are doing. It simply means giving everyone a fair chance and a fair leash. We are being trigger-happy right now.

Speak for yourself. I've spoken at great lenghts of the reasons I would like to see him in the A, and it's far from linear or simplistic, just from a different viewpoint and one that is probably far more knowledgable about behavioral/brain development. Brain adaptations are best done transiently, by layers. Test anyone on a time constraint game based on a 3d environment and if you start one group at the lowest speed (of objects travelling in the game) and raise the speeds by increments and then have another group start at maximum speed, the former group will get better a lot faster, because they learn what they need to do at lower speeds and adapt at doing it quicker as the phases progress, while the latter group's full speed does not allow for the same acoutumance.

I know you're full into the HuGoBo-do-no-wrong (and MSL) mindset, but they aren't experts on development. They're shooting from the hip, trying to reinvent it and thinking they're smarter than the boatload of scientists who have worked and tested development for decades.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

How does a low IQ player with tunnel vision like Slaf could see Newhook on that goal?

Tie Domi made a play like that from time to time.

 

[Jaynki]

Speak for yourself. I've spoken at great lenghts of the reasons I would like to see him in the A, and it's far from linear or simplistic, just from a different viewpoint and one that is probably far more knowledgable about behavioral/brain development. Brain adaptations are best done transiently, by layers. Test anyone on a time constraint game based on a 3d environment and if you start one group at the lowest speed (of objects travelling in the game) and raise the speeds by increments and then have another group start at maximum speed, the former group will get better a lot faster, because they learn what they need to do at lower speeds and adapt at doing it quicker as the phases progress, while the latter group's full speed does not allow for the same acoutumance.

I know you're full into the HuGoBo-do-no-wrong (and MSL) mindset, but they aren't experts on development. They're shooting from the hip, trying to reinvent it and thinking they're smarter than the boatload of scientists who have worked and tested development for decades.

I would not call the NHL managers from the previous decades scientist tho.

I also agree with your first paragraph and no im not on the Hugo can do no wrong train.

Dont worry, i will happily point their mistake and their failure, in due time.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Go back to psge ~50 of this thread and look at the premature circle jerk. Posters antagonizing others with @ mentions etc. Yet, we are the ones being accused of wanting to be right.

The posters acting like petulant children weren’t the ones desperately wanting to be right. I’m not saying he will suck forever or be a bust, but only that he sucks right now and would be better served somewhere else. I think junior was the right place and still do. I don’t think he would produce much in the AHL either.

They said some wildly optimistic things about Slaf around draft time that really poisoned the well. The next Rantanen, better prospect in every way than Brady Tkachuk, guaranteed future 90+ point player, a player whose absolute floor is better than RNH.

When that's your take on Slaf, someone saying that he might not be the smartest player to ever lace them up indeed sounds like heresy.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

I would not call the NHL managers from the previous decades scientist tho.

I also agree with your first paragraph and no im not on the Hugo can do no wrong train.

Dont worry, i will happily point their mistake and their failure, in due time.

I was talking of all the data from behavioral sciences, not previous hockey managers.

 

[angusyoung]

You have to look at the positives I suppose,he's not getting creamed as often. but from little I've seen of the NHL this season,few are as it's seems a lot like pond hockey.I looked at stats and often there are not a lot of hits in a a game.

I thought he would have been more implicated this season and contribute more but it does not seem to be the case,but I was told to temper expectations,that's on me for expecting an NHL quality player,which he is not at this point. The team in general looks pretty aimless and not exactly thrilling to watch, again on me for wanting to watch entertaining hockey.

 

[cave troll]

They said some wildly optimistic things about Slaf around draft time that really poisoned the well. The next Rantanen, better prospect in every way than Brady Tkachuk, guaranteed future 90+ point player, a player whose absolute floor is better than RNH.

When that's your take on Slaf, someone saying that he might not be the smartest player to ever lace them up indeed sounds like heresy.

Well, same thing happened with Reinbacher. Nobody wanted him, but when we drafted him, he became the new Pronger instantly. At the same time time Michkov became a small nasty kid with problematic character and 0 work ethics.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Well, same thing happened with Reinbacher. Nobody wanted him, but when we drafted him, he became the new Pronger instantly. At the same time time Michkov became a small nasty kid with problematic character and 0 work ethics.

A similar thing happened, but not in favour of Reinbacher. I was a Michkov guy, but I spent most of the time talking people off the ledge about Reinbacher. Not the next Pronger, but a very good player.

Some of the nonsense said about Michkov at the start of the season was very bad faith.

 

[dinodebino]

Slaf should not have been the first pick, but what is done is done. Send him metro riding to Montmo, where he needs to learn about time and space. Give him time. Also, send him to the WJC with his buddies.

 

[FerrisRox]

As if it was ridiculous to just entertain that notion. Pure chickenshit conformism. Team says so, we say so.

Or maybe, just maybe, they have a different opinion than you do?

 

[Licou]

The nostalgia of the honeymoon is definitely over for me in regards to the new management...

I really really like Hughes' approach still and am okay with St Louis as a coach.

But I am extremely disappointed at Gorton's nepotism styled management. He really sold him self well for me at the start whit his message, but the underlings he brought in are absolute dumbwits...

At least they kind of modernized the organization with a proper analytics department and development coaches.

On the other hand, how can you claim to work on a rebuild if the root of this effort, the scouting, is absolutely deficient?

All in all, sorry for the hot take, but we are very close to a state where we are wasting our rebuild time with this current management. Of course we have solid pieces, like our most likely monstrous blue line. But I am worried we are not gearing up for a perennial top tier team, as we should have.

Poor Slaf is a reflection of this... I think that not all hope is lost, but he needs to cook in the AHL, right f***ing now. If it works, then I will eat my words. A 60 point monster forward can indeed more valuable than a small 70 point center... Lots of ifs though at this point....

 

[JackZap]

What we need is some new funny questions from the psychiatrist. That will surely help for the next drafts. “If you need to scratch your butt during a job interview , what would you do? Fight the urge or discreetly go for it? “

oh we really like how he answered that question, he’s our guy! We know he has no hockey sense but man oh man, the way he answered that question leaves no doubt in our minds that he’ll be able to handle the pressooourree.

 

[Jaynki]

As bas as he looks, you bet against a 19 years old with that skills at your own peril.

Makes me think of the guy who use to short sell Tesla stock in 2020 and then one day he woke up bankrupt with a position 2000% against him. After all it had difficulty delivering car, was on the verge of bankruptcy, etc. Many similarities with the current discourse on Slaf even tho two very different subject.

 

[ijuka]

Bobrov fell in love with Slafkovsky. This isn't what rational decision making sounds like. Bobrov's read on his play in Finland is particularly bad, especially as he went on to say that Juraj had learned everything that Finland had to teach him. Nonsense.

On Slafkovsky in Finland, I followed him on TPS ever since he arrived. The whole time through I was lower on him than the scouts' rankings(I remember he was top 5 already in 19-20), and the reason for that was pretty much the same.

What I saw in his game was that he was compensating for his issues with his size. He was not making good decisions - he was brute forcing plays that should not have succeeded, but that he got away with due to his size and strength. I guess you could say that he wasn't playing "the right way", and it felt like he struggled to play as a part of the system.

This actually was prevalent throughout his junior career. He had some skill in terms of stickhandling and whatnot, but either way, I always got the sense of him just doing whatever he felt like doing, because he could get away with it.

It would have been great for coaching to address it while he was still in juniors, but they didn't. Not until Liiga, that is. In Liiga, he actually couldn't get away with doing stuff like that, since in Liiga, the players are used to dealing with players stronger than them, and he struggled as a result. The coaching did notice this as well, but he didn't really seem to adapt. Could never properly play as a part of the system.

Internationally, he actually did great that season. Why is that? My theory is that in internationals, the games in general are lacking in structure, since the teams are essentially ragtag squads where the players have been together for just a short while, and that's the type of an environment where this kind of play can work.

But in Liiga, he still kept struggling, even when he received opportunities well beyond what he would have deserved. They tried him giving him ice time, spots on the top lines etc. and he just couldn't deliver. It's not a case of them somehow arbitrarily giving him no chance.

Of course, I did not think that he should have been picked 1st overall, but even if you make the decision, then there's no way one should have thought that he's ready for the NHL, assuming they had watched him play in Liiga.

Since Liiga is not available in North America, I always feel like the scouting for this league is pretty flawed, and appears to mostly consist of box score watching, and international games. Hopefully, they didn't base their decision solely on international performances.

 

[Ezpz]

Who said it’s Anderson’s “fault” for anything?

But it makes zero sense to have that line together. Anderson has no Iq. Newhook’s trying to establish himself. It’s just not a good combo.

With Dach it’s a different story. But that ship has sailed.

The issue is gally isn't an NHLer without Monahan. So what line combo do we use to both give ourselves a chance to offload guys like Pearson and gally and also develop guys like Slaf without blatantly tanking or letting people know poor play gets rewarded if you were drafted first?

I'm at the point where Slaf has to go to Laval. He is not an NHL player right now. Even just for a month or two.

 

[admiralcadillac]

The nostalgia of the honeymoon is definitely over for me in regards to the new management...

I really really like Hughes' approach still and am okay with St Louis as a coach.

But I am extremely disappointed at Gorton's nepotism styled management. He really sold him self well for me at the start whit his message, but the underlings he brought in are absolute dumbwits...

At least they kind of modernized the organization with a proper analytics department and development coaches.

On the other hand, how can you claim to work on a rebuild if the root of this effort, the scouting, is absolutely deficient?

All in all, sorry for the hot take, but we are very close to a state where we are wasting our rebuild time with this current management. Of course we have solid pieces, like our most likely monstrous blue line. But I am worried we are not gearing up for a perennial top tier team, as we should have.

Poor Slaf is a reflection of this... I think that not all hope is lost, but he needs to cook in the AHL, right f***ing now. If it works, then I will eat my words. A 60 point monster forward can indeed more valuable than a small 70 point center... Lots of ifs though at this point....

His scouting is deficient on the basis that Slaf isn’t producing at whatever clip you wanted him to 50 games into his nhl career?

 

[NotProkofievian]

On Slafkovsky in Finland, I followed him on TPS ever since he arrived. The whole time through I was lower on him than the scouts' rankings(I remember he was top 5 already in 19-20), and the reason for that was pretty much the same.

What I saw in his game was that he was compensating for his issues with his size. He was not making good decisions - he was brute forcing plays that should not have succeeded, but that he got away with due to his size and strength. I guess you could say that he wasn't playing "the right way", and it felt like he struggled to play as a part of the system.

This actually was prevalent throughout his junior career. He had some skill in terms of stickhandling and whatnot, but either way, I always got the sense of him just doing whatever he felt like doing, because he could get away with it.

It would have been great for coaching to address it while he was still in juniors, but they didn't. Not until Liiga, that is. In Liiga, he actually couldn't get away with doing stuff like that, since in Liiga, the players are used to dealing with players stronger than them, and he struggled as a result. The coaching did notice this as well, but he didn't really seem to adapt. Could never properly play as a part of the system.

Internationally, he actually did great that season. Why is that? My theory is that in internationals, the games in general are lacking in structure, since the teams are essentially ragtag squads where the players have been together for just a short while, and that's the type of an environment where this kind of play can work.

But in Liiga, he still kept struggling, even when he received opportunities well beyond what he would have deserved. They tried him giving him ice time, spots on the top lines etc. and he just couldn't deliver. It's not a case of them somehow arbitrarily giving him no chance.

Of course, I did not think that he should have been picked 1st overall, but even if you make the decision, then there's no way one should have thought that he's ready for the NHL, assuming they had watched him play in Liiga.

Since Liiga is not available in North America, I always feel like the scouting for this league is pretty flawed, and appears to mostly consist of box score watching, and international games. Hopefully, they didn't base their decision solely on international performances.

They definitely saw him live in Finland with TPS. They may have been at the same playoff game I went to, the two point game against HIFK, which might explain things.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

As bas as he looks, you bet against a 19 years old with that skills at your own peril.

Makes me think of the guy who use to short sell Tesla stock in 2020 and then one day he woke up bankrupt with a position 2000% against him. After all it had difficulty delivering car, was on the verge of bankruptcy, etc. Many similarities with the current discourse on Slaf even tho two very different subject.

The problem with your analogy is simple.

Slaf =/= Tesla Motors

Tesla Motors stock were already high at that point and their historic rise was mostly constant. So far with Slaf, there's absolutely no rise.

 

[admiralcadillac]

That's okay I won my point , you have no idea that players need development before they hit the top.

You didn’t make that point at all, you just trashed anything and everything on the habs like you always do. Have you ever had a positive post by the way? You’re certainly entitled to your opinion but it may be worth reevaluating why you’re so negative all the time.

 

[StCaufield]

On Slafkovsky in Finland, I followed him on TPS ever since he arrived. The whole time through I was lower on him than the scouts' rankings(I remember he was top 5 already in 19-20), and the reason for that was pretty much the same.

What I saw in his game was that he was compensating for his issues with his size. He was not making good decisions - he was brute forcing plays that should not have succeeded, but that he got away with due to his size and strength. I guess you could say that he wasn't playing "the right way", and it felt like he struggled to play as a part of the system.

This actually was prevalent throughout his junior career. He had some skill in terms of stickhandling and whatnot, but either way, I always got the sense of him just doing whatever he felt like doing, because he could get away with it.

It would have been great for coaching to address it while he was still in juniors, but they didn't. Not until Liiga, that is. In Liiga, he actually couldn't get away with doing stuff like that, since in Liiga, the players are used to dealing with players stronger than them, and he struggled as a result. The coaching did notice this as well, but he didn't really seem to adapt. Could never properly play as a part of the system.

Internationally, he actually did great that season. Why is that? My theory is that in internationals, the games in general are lacking in structure, since the teams are essentially ragtag squads where the players have been together for just a short while, and that's the type of an environment where this kind of play can work.

But in Liiga, he still kept struggling, even when he received opportunities well beyond what he would have deserved. They tried him giving him ice time, spots on the top lines etc. and he just couldn't deliver. It's not a case of them somehow arbitrarily giving him no chance.

Of course, I did not think that he should have been picked 1st overall, but even if you make the decision, then there's no way one should have thought that he's ready for the NHL, assuming they had watched him play in Liiga.

Since Liiga is not available in North America, I always feel like the scouting for this league is pretty flawed, and appears to mostly consist of box score watching, and international games. Hopefully, they didn't base their decision solely on international performances.

Great post but also terrifying

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

What we need is some new funny questions from the psychiatrist. That will surely help for the next drafts. “If you need to scratch your butt during a job interview , what would you do? Fight the urge or discreetly go for it? “

oh we really like how he answered that question, he’s our guy! We know he has no hockey sense but man oh man, the way he answered that question leaves no doubt in our minds that he’ll be able to handle the pressooourree.

Instead of the psychology questions, or rather for a much needed supplementation, they should pass passive and active 3D recognition/operations tests, a bit like they do with air traffic controllers. I'm pretty sure there's a strong correlation, especially with active testing, between high scores and the players in the league with the best hockey visions.

On Slafkovsky in Finland, I followed him on TPS ever since he arrived. The whole time through I was lower on him than the scouts' rankings(I remember he was top 5 already in 19-20), and the reason for that was pretty much the same.

What I saw in his game was that he was compensating for his issues with his size. He was not making good decisions - he was brute forcing plays that should not have succeeded, but that he got away with due to his size and strength. I guess you could say that he wasn't playing "the right way", and it felt like he struggled to play as a part of the system.

This actually was prevalent throughout his junior career. He had some skill in terms of stickhandling and whatnot, but either way, I always got the sense of him just doing whatever he felt like doing, because he could get away with it.

It would have been great for coaching to address it while he was still in juniors, but they didn't. Not until Liiga, that is. In Liiga, he actually couldn't get away with doing stuff like that, since in Liiga, the players are used to dealing with players stronger than them, and he struggled as a result. The coaching did notice this as well, but he didn't really seem to adapt. Could never properly play as a part of the system.

Internationally, he actually did great that season. Why is that? My theory is that in internationals, the games in general are lacking in structure, since the teams are essentially ragtag squads where the players have been together for just a short while, and that's the type of an environment where this kind of play can work.

But in Liiga, he still kept struggling, even when he received opportunities well beyond what he would have deserved. They tried him giving him ice time, spots on the top lines etc. and he just couldn't deliver. It's not a case of them somehow arbitrarily giving him no chance.

Of course, I did not think that he should have been picked 1st overall, but even if you make the decision, then there's no way one should have thought that he's ready for the NHL, assuming they had watched him play in Liiga.

Since Liiga is not available in North America, I always feel like the scouting for this league is pretty flawed, and appears to mostly consist of box score watching, and international games. Hopefully, they didn't base their decision solely on international performances.

@Mrb1p
This the guy I was talking about yesterday