Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[DAChampion]

My rule of thumb is that D+1 NHL players should go to the WJC, but not D+2 players.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Sure they were only 3 but they were beauties.

Lest we forget, Last year we were worried he had no iq and tunnel vision. Not worried about his shot. He’s gonna put it all together and he’ll be great

 

[cave troll]

Bedard is the best NHL prospect we've seen since McDavid. Fantilli and Carlsson are among the best we've seen since then too. Slaf shoots and shot at around the same rate as Cooley both of his seasons in the NHL.

I'm not sure what you're complaining about? That Montreal had 1st OA in 2022 instead of 2023? No one is arguing that the top of the 2023 draft was vastly better than the 2022 draft. I'm not sure what the point of complaining about that is.

That Montreal picked Slaf instead of Cooley? Its pretty premature to suggest that, but they produce at the same rate 5v5 and Slaf does a lot more on the ice generally. Cooley'd been better on the PP, but he also isn't a driving force there.

Montreal's in need of elite offensive talent more than a "top class goalscorer".

All of these guys, including Cooley who is also a rookie are at double or triple production rate compared to Slaf.
I just pointed out that he isn't shooting and isn't producing. He's bigger, stronger, faster than these other guys and is not lacking in skill, but he lacks their confidence and doesn't look at opponent's goal. That why he'll have trouble to reach 10 goals this season and that's why he'll have trouble reach 20 goals seasons if he doesn't change his mindset.

 

[Kennerback]

Bedard is the best NHL prospect we've seen since McDavid. Fantilli and Carlsson are among the best we've seen since then too. Slaf shoots and shot at around the same rate as Cooley both of his seasons in the NHL.

I'm not sure what you're complaining about? That Montreal had 1st OA in 2022 instead of 2023? No one is arguing that the top of the 2023 draft was vastly better than the 2022 draft. I'm not sure what the point of complaining about that is.

That Montreal picked Slaf instead of Cooley? Its pretty premature to suggest that, but they produce at the same rate 5v5 and Slaf does a lot more on the ice generally. Cooley'd been better on the PP, but he also isn't a driving force there.

Montreal's in need of elite offensive talent more than a "top class goalscorer".

Problem with comparing Cooley with Slaf is comparing a player that needs to shoot from the periphery because he doesn’t yet have the size to get closer and a guy that regularly is smack in the middle of the slot, but still prefers dumping the puck towards anyone in the vicinity. Cooley is forced to not shoot much, Slaf makes the decision not to.

 

[calder candidate]

I'm not arguing against myself, i'm arguing that Poitras' situation this year, with the Bruins, in his first WJC, is not the same situation as Slafkovsky last year, on the Habs, having already played in a WJC (not to mention a WC and Olympics) there was nothing to be gained from sending him there other than allowing fans to watch him for a few weeks.

I would have started him in the AHL last year but they decided otherwise, it's just time to accept that decision and to stop acting like it changed the course of his career.

It didn't.

So what would have been the point, if the team was trying to integrate him into an NHL lineup and for him to learn to master NHL style habits?

We can't pick and choose when these WJC runs matter and when they don't. Throughout history, there have players who went to the WJC and won gold and were never heard from again, there are some who used that platform to propel themselves to NHL stardom, etc.

It's a 3 week tournament, it's a tiny part of a prospects season...I think we've overrated it's significance, especially in Canada where it's become tradition and TSN keeps pumping the idea that you have to be at this tournament or else your doomed.

It's really not that deep.

I don't agree they should have sent him but I understand why fans wanted/want to see it.

Again for Poitras though, it's a totally different situation.


lol oh I know this is entirely about easing insecurities and nothing to do with actual development.

It's funny, Joshua Roy has been one of the most productive Montreal Canadiens prospect at the WJC, if not the most productive.

He's still learning what it is to be a pro right now...WJCs are cool, they're hardly the magic pill people make it out to be.

Amateur is one thing...being a professional hockey player is a whole other, the former can't replicate the latter.

no one arguing that WJC is a magic pill or that it could have change it trajectory and immediate impact… Everyone has move on, it happen. Now, I was evaluating management decisions and seeing another team (one that is also having success) sending their player make me think that maybe it wasn’t such a crazy idea and maybe that the decision wasn’t optimal.

Like you say every player is different not sure what Roy WJC expirent come in with the decision to send Slaf, but for Roy that was a positive for him and the most significant competition he was able to face. He is a 5th round pick one of our best player in the AHL and progressing the fact that he isn’t having a impact in the NHL doesn’t have anything to do with WJC, and the fact that he hasn’t made it to the NHL doesn’t take anyway that is WJC experience is positive. Again not quite sure why Roy situation come in to it.

Slaf WJC team had a shot at goal I’m not saying that lead to NHL greatness but if is team was doing to fighting for relegation he isn’t being put in the same situation, and again that has to be something you consider at some point in the process because you are looking for positives outcomes.

Your are definitely making arguments against you self… because Poitras is a different player but in A very similar position, if the WJC isn’t a magic there also no way that playing bottom 6 in ~4 NHL games plays any factor in is career or mastering NHL habit. If Poitras isn’t playing a important role, Slaf wasn’t playing a important role. If the team is only going what best for the team than, There is nothing for poitras to be gain (that would not also apply to Slaf). He is also faced with the same challenges to becoming a professional player. the fact that Poitras hasn’t play in the WJC before doesn’t weight in for Boston they will be a playoff team they need everyone to be the best they can be.
Why is Boston sending Poitras?
They made the decision that playing against is age group vs. Significant competition for a small set period of time with a bigger role was a more positive for him long term or maybe even short term vs. playing in a reduced role in the NHL.
MTL didn’t make that determination at the time for some it was the right decision, for some it wasn’t and for some it was 50/50, turn out he when pts less in 15games (where the whole team played horrible/ depressing hockey) and had a season ending injury, what is done is done but pretty sure him missing half the season to injury ( which is something we can’t control) is a bigger factor than missing 10 days to go to WJC…
Even without hindsight I think there was more possible positives outcome to him going to WJC for 10 days than him playing reduce role in the NHL, your self believes that he should have been in the AHL. Now that we know that outcome and we see Boston send Poitras, we see ANA ease or load manage Carlsson in the line up. I don’t think it is far fetch to think that the decision that MTL made in handling Slaf in the first season were not optimal.

 

[sandviper]

His generational goal scoring against Kazakhstan aside, Slaf was never a shooter nor was he a mean and menacing power forward. He’s a playmaker, first and foremost.

Playing with Caufield and Suzuki, I don’t expect him to shoot more and he’ll probably be a lot like Dach early on in Chicago and defer to his linemates.

He absolutely should shoot more, as he has a great shot, and hoping this can be coached into him but it isn’t in his nature to shoot.

 

[calder candidate]

More significant than the competition he was facing IN the NHL?

Is playing Austria/Germany/Latvia/Sweden U20s more significant competition than playing against ACTUAL NHL teams?

Is this the argument you want to run with?

You need to understand that significant competition doesn’t necessarily mean the highest level of competition possible it is use for being the highest level of competition were the player is able to achieve good results yet still being challenging. Playing (or not playing many minutes) against competition that is too strong doesn’t help progression. Hockey is like every skill, they don’t give 1st grader war and peace as a reading assignment and they doesn’t sign the alphabet song in university everyone get challenged at the appropriate level base on where they are… for Slaf last year WJC would have consider significant competition… playing top minute in a important role going against the best in is age group which inclus a few players that are currently outperforming him…

 

[DAChampion]

His generational goal scoring against Kazakhstan aside, Slaf was never a shooter nor was he a mean and menacing power forward. He’s a playmaker, first and foremost.

Playing with Caufield and Suzuki, I don’t expect him to shoot more and he’ll probably be a lot like Dach early on in Chicago and defer to his linemates.

He absolutely should shoot more, as he has a great shot, and hoping this can be coached into him but it isn’t in his nature to shoot.

I think one can't be a good plsumaker in the NHL without being a goal scoring threat, at least 20 goals per year.

 

[417]

no one arguing that WJC is a magic pill or that it could have change it trajectory and immediate impact… Everyone has move on, it happen. Now, I was evaluating management decisions and seeing another team (one that is also having success) sending their player make me think that maybe it wasn’t such a crazy idea and maybe that the decision wasn’t optimal.

Well agree to disagree on that because like I explained, from my perspective, they're different situations.

Like you say every player is different not sure what Roy WJC expirent come in with the decision to send Slaf, but for Roy that was a positive for him and the most significant competition he was able to face. He is a 5th round pick one of our best player in the AHL and progressing the fact that he isn’t having a impact in the NHL doesn’t have anything to do with WJC, and the fact that he hasn’t made it to the NHL doesn’t take anyway that is WJC experience is positive. Again not quite sure why Roy situation come in to it.

Yes the experiment was a positive one for Roy, he won 2 WJC gold medals...he'll cherish those memories for life and no one can take that away from him.

But it really has no bearing on whether or not he's going to become an NHL player...he could have missed the WJC all together and i'm confident he'd still be exactly where he is today.

Slaf WJC team had a shot at goal I’m not saying that lead to NHL greatness but if is team was doing to fighting for relegation he isn’t being put in the same situation, and again that has to be something you consider at some point in the process because you are looking for positives outcomes.

I'm looking for positive outcomes for him with the Montreal Canadiens..

Your are definitely making arguments against you self… because Poitras is a different player but in A very similar position, if the WJC isn’t a magic there also no way that playing bottom 6 in ~4 NHL games plays any factor in is career or mastering NHL habit. If Poitras isn’t playing a important role, Slaf wasn’t playing a important role. If the team is only going what best for the team than, There is nothing for poitras to be gain (that would not also apply to Slaf). He is also faced with the same challenges to becoming a professional player. the fact that Poitras hasn’t play in the WJC before doesn’t weight in for Boston they will be a playoff team they need everyone to be the best they can be.
Why is Boston sending Poitras?

He's never played in the WJC, Zacha is back, Coyle and Geekie are all playing well.

Different situation.

They made the decision that playing against is age group vs. Significant competition for a small set period of time with a bigger role was a more positive for him long term or maybe even short term vs. playing in a reduced role in the NHL.
MTL didn’t make that determination at the time for some it was the right decision, for some it wasn’t and for some it was 50/50, turn out he when pts less in 15games (where the whole team played horrible/ depressing hockey) and had a season ending injury, what is done is done but pretty sure him missing half the season to injury ( which is something we can’t control) is a bigger factor than missing 10 days to go to WJC…
Even without hindsight I think there was more possible positives outcome to him going to WJC for 10 days than him playing reduce role in the NHL, your self believes that he should have been in the AHL. Now that we know that outcome and we see Boston send Poitras, we see ANA ease or load manage Carlsson in the line up. I don’t think it is far fetch to think that the decision that MTL made in handling Slaf in the first season were not optimal.

I know a lot of people argue this, but without actually being able to prove it...so sure, it's a theory.

 

[417]

You need to understand that significant competition doesn’t necessarily mean the highest level of competition possible it is use for being the highest level of competition were the player is able to achieve good results yet still being challenging.

Evaluating how a player is developing is much more complex than just looking at results though.

And while I understand that significant competition, doesn't necessarily mean the highest level of competition. But at the same time, it's hard arguing that inferior competition, assuming the player isn't completely overmatched (which he wasn't/isn't) is more beneficial than competing at the highest level.

Playing (or not playing many minutes) against competition that is too strong doesn’t help progression. Hockey is like every skill, they don’t give 1st grader war and peace as a reading assignment and they doesn’t sign the alphabet song in university everyone get challenged at the appropriate level base on where they are… for Slaf last year WJC would have consider significant competition… playing top minute in a important role going against the best in is age group which inclus a few players that are currently outperforming him…

Yeah this is definitely something that only hockey fans think, cause thats not how it it in other sports. There are plenty of players who sit 1, 2 or even 3 years before playing and no one is panicking about that.

It's unique to hockey and I understand that you can play in the NHL at 18, but for some reason, fans/media take that to mean that you absolutely have to excel if you do make it at 18 or 19 and if you aren't...well that's it, the rest of your career will be mapped out as a failure.

That's simply not true.

 

[calder candidate]

Yes the experiment was a positive one for Roy, he won 2 WJC gold medals...he'll cherish those memories for life and no one can take that away from him.

But it really has no bearing on whether or not he's going to become an NHL player...he could have missed the WJC all together and i'm confident he'd still be exactly where he is today.

Well if you want Slaf to face the best competition to help him progress won’t Roy also benefit from facing the best… I agree that it ultimately has no direct impact on if NHL futur and he probably in a similar situation regardless but having good results + success is motivating and that is integral part for progression. Again did WJC hurt is progression definitely not if anything it only help, we just can’t even determine how much, is it only great memories or actually help motivate or improve.

I'm looking for positive outcomes for him with the Montreal Canadiens..

He's never played in the WJC, Zacha is back, Coyle and Geekie are all playing well.

Different situation.

I know a lot of people argue this, but without actually being able to prove it...so sure, it's a theory.

Having positive outcome in mtl mean progression to be a dominant player, progression isn’t linear. Again doing to WJC for 10 days isn’t putting is future or progression in jeopardy. I not trying to say that it would have changed is trajectory but it could not hurt…

Your argument is that playing in the NHL is more beneficial regardless of if Slaf wasn’t playing any kind of role or contributing in any way, Playing with is countryman/friend, having success or winning goal in the biggest competition for is age group those aren’t factor to be consider since playing ~4 NHL is the better option. We will never know why Boston ultimately decided to sent Poitras but if Boston sent him considering or because Poitras never played WJC wouldn’t that go against the logic that playing in the NHL working on mastering pro habit is better, especially since Boston is a position that getting immediate result is more important since the are working toward contending for a cup this year.

Boston can spare Poitras, Pretty sure we were able to spare Slaf the situation are different, If anything Poitras as been a cinderella story with low expectations and lot of positive results on a playoff team, what would he gain from going to WJC, While Slaf was not reaching high expectations on a non playoff team playing limited min in the NHL trying to dig is way out… I kinda of think that the biggest difference is that you were against sending Slaf and you are ok with Boston sending Poitras.
Again I don’t care that you don’t see it has the correct decision but going to WJC is far from crazy as you are trying to make it seem since basically everything that applies to Poitras also apply to Slaf in some mesure, so unless you think Boston are making a mistake I can’t see how you can use any of these point to argue that they should not have at least consider sending Slaf when using basiaclly same argument for sending Poitras.

 

[Captain Mountain]

All of these guys, including Cooley who is also a rookie are at double or triple production rate compared to Slaf.
I just pointed out that he isn't shooting and isn't producing. He's bigger, stronger, faster than these other guys and is not lacking in skill, but he lacks their confidence and doesn't look at opponent's goal. That why he'll have trouble to reach 10 goals this season and that's why he'll have trouble reach 20 goals seasons if he doesn't change his mindset.

Ok? This isn't new. Everyone knew that even if Slafkovsky was the right pick, it would take time for him to adjust. Like, we're literally watching him change the way he plays right now as he gets more comfortable at the NHL/NA game.

There's also an element to his lack of goalscoring that is team/strategy based, which you can see with how many Habs wingers are dramatically under-performing their expected goals.

Problem with comparing Cooley with Slaf is comparing a player that needs to shoot from the periphery because he doesn’t yet have the size to get closer and a guy that regularly is smack in the middle of the slot, but still prefers dumping the puck towards anyone in the vicinity. Cooley is forced to not shoot much, Slaf makes the decision not to.

I'm not sure what you're argument is. That Slaf's offensive approach can't or won't development such that he's more comfortable to shoot, but Cooley hitting a late growth spurt will?

 

[Kennerback]

Ok? This isn't new. Everyone knew that even if Slafkovsky was the right pick, it would take time for him to adjust. Like, we're literally watching him change the way he plays right now as he gets more comfortable at the NHL/NA game.

There's also an element to his lack of goalscoring that is team/strategy based, which you can see with how many Habs wingers are dramatically under-performing their expected goals.



I'm not sure what you're argument is. That Slaf's offensive approach can't or won't development such that he's more comfortable to shoot, but Cooley hitting a late growth spurt will?

Cooley needs to fill out to generate as many opportunities as Slaf. As for Slaf, I fail to see the point of his fancy throwaway passes every time he creates an opportunity if the goal is to produce points. It’s a non-sensical tactic. I don’t know why the coaching staff lets him still do it.

Just shooting and putting the puck on net without thinking every time he’s within distance is a much better strategy for points, even considering his sub-par shot release. It’s not a high IQ strategy but would be much more profitable in terms of points.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Cooley needs to fill out to generate as many opportunities as Slaf. As for Slaf, I fail to see the point of his fancy throwaway passes every time he creates an opportunity if the goal is to produce points. It’s a non-sensical tactic. I don’t know why the coaching staff lets him still do it.

Just shooting and putting the puck on net without thinking every time he’s within distance is a much better strategy for points, even considering his sub-par shot release. It’s not a high IQ strategy but would be much more profitable in terms of points.

Huh? I don't see that Cooley needs to fill out more to generate more chances, or that there's a lot more to fill out. Like, his frame is pretty close to Gallagher's (Gallagher - 175cm/83kg vs Cooley - 178cm/79kg). Gallagher never needed more size to get to dangerous areas of the ice and its not clear that Cooley has that much more to fill out or that that filling out would significantly change his ability to get to scoring areas more. Cooley needs to adjust to the NHL game and figure out how best to play his game - same as Slafkovsky.

It was always going to be a process with Slaf. It may be that he wasn't the right pick, but we can't really draw a conclusion right now.

 

[calder candidate]

Evaluating how a player is developing is much more complex than just looking at results though.

And while I understand that significant competition, doesn't necessarily mean the highest level of competition. But at the same time, it's hard arguing that inferior competition, assuming the player isn't completely overmatched (which he wasn't/isn't) is more beneficial than competing at the highest level.

I definitely understand that development is complex, non linear and when I use result I don’t mean pts ( no sure if it is what you are issuing)

He could play in the NHL he wasn’t having any kind of impact to the game or play significant role or minute… Even if he isn’t totally overmatch, he was just barely able to keep is head out of the water, that isn’t a necessary environment that is conducive to progress.

Yeah this is definitely something that only hockey fans think, cause thats not how it it in other sports. There are plenty of players who sit 1, 2 or even 3 years before playing and no one is panicking about that.

It's unique to hockey and I understand that you can play in the NHL at 18, but for some reason, fans/media take that to mean that you absolutely have to excel if you do make it at 18 or 19 and if you aren't...well that's it, the rest of your career will be mapped out as a failure.

That's simply not true.

Not sure if I wasn’t clear or that you misunderstood my point but it was playing against stronger competition doesn’t automatically lead to improvement especially if it is too strong. I never said anything about Slaf being a bust or that he was never going to progress or it was time to panic…
To be clear Slaf would have been my pick1stOA.

Again if other sport are able to sit player 1-3 years and being patient and it is totally fine aren’t you undercutting your own argument that sending Slaf to WJC (for 10 days) wasn’t worth it because he need to learn NHL habit.

My point is still that WJC should have been a consider as a viable option and even if it is not a outright mistake by management I think it is perfectly fair to question it. Not going to lie spent way to much of my time replying to you today so…

 

[Jeune Poulet]

But he can also do this IN the NHL.

Nah... that train has passed. This is december 2023, BTW, If you're still expecting Slafkovsky to hit 80 points in his career, you need to catch up even more on development than I thought.

Do you think the only way to prevent this from happening is for him to spend some time in the AHL?

That would have been the optimal trajectory.

But why didn't that work with Armia and Anderson, who both spent a considerable amount of time in the AHL before becoming full time NHL players?

Saying "it didn't work out" with Josh Anderson is another demonstration that you don't really understand how development work. He's actually a success story on how developing a player at the proper level of competition can pay off.

He was a middle six forward in junior. Not a guy with all the tools like Slaf. He was drafted in the 4th round for a reason. But playing against meaningful competition in junior and then in the AHL paid off for him. I don't really know enough about Armia's past development so I'll refrain from commenting that case.

But it seems you have to be reminded time and time again: An optimal path just increases the chance a player will achieve his full potential. It does not guarantee it.

It's useless to try to point at outliers to prove your point. It's also useless to point at individual players and their statistical curves and compare them to other players. I know a lot of people on both side of these arguments do that but that's not really how it works.

My posts are about listening to science, atheletic development and proven concepts like meaningful competition in youth. This is really basic stuff that, as a self-declared coach you should understand: basic stuff like a healthy ration of success/failure, growing in the proper environment, meaningful competition, and setting players up to succeed.

This organization, with its impatience, has failed this player starting in autumn 2022 by not sending him where he belongs and we are now stuck a season and a half later with a rushed product who shows great potential in certain facets, but is barely able to execute in certain areas and can't properly self evaluate.

He's got too much natural talent to be useless and they can still turn him into a legit, consistent 50, 60 point top six guy, I guess. But it's going to be an uphill battle.

 

[cave troll]

Ok? This isn't new. Everyone knew that even if Slafkovsky was the right pick, it would take time for him to adjust. Like, we're literally watching him change the way he plays right now as he gets more comfortable at the NHL/NA game.

There's also an element to his lack of goalscoring that is team/strategy based, which you can see with how many Habs wingers are dramatically under-performing their expected goals.

Yes. Goalscoring is our problem but if we can point out a player for whom scoring a goal is the biggest challenge that's Slafkofsky. 4 in 39 games last year, 2 in 31 games this year.
And it's not a problem of skill which he has plenty. It's not about adjustment. It's all about his head.
Time is passing quickly and this league is unforgiving.

 

[Jaaanosik]

Yes. Goalscoring is our problem but if we can point out a player for whom scoring a goal is the biggest challenge that's Slafkofsky. 4 in 39 games last year, 2 in 31 games this year.
And it's not a problem of skill which he has plenty. It's not about adjustment. It's all about his head.
Time is passing quickly and this league is unforgiving.

CC is a bigger concern for me with just 8 goals so far.

 

[417]

Well if you want Slaf to face the best competition to help him progress won’t Roy also benefit from facing the best… I agree that it ultimately has no direct impact on if NHL futur and he probably in a similar situation regardless but having good results + success is motivating and that is integral part for progression. Again did WJC hurt is progression definitely not if anything it only help, we just can’t even determine how much, is it only great memories or actually help motivate or improve.

Again, we can't always think that what is good for Player A is also good for player B.

Roy is where he's supposed to be right now because mostly, there's no room for him in Montreal right now.

They want him to play and play a lot and Laval affords him that opportunity.

Having positive outcome in mtl mean progression to be a dominant player, progression isn’t linear. Again doing to WJC for 10 days isn’t putting is future or progression in jeopardy. I not trying to say that it would have changed is trajectory but it could not hurt…

Like I said earlier, doing something because it can't hurt, isn't a valid reason to just do something. The best thing to do is to do things that can help a player.

Going to the WJC right now, or last year if you prefer, was not going to help him more than being in the NHL. It's a 2 week tournament.

Your argument is that playing in the NHL is more beneficial regardless of if Slaf wasn’t playing any kind of role or contributing in any way, Playing with is countryman/friend, having success or winning goal in the biggest competition for is age group those aren’t factor to be consider since playing ~4 NHL is the better option. We will never know why Boston ultimately decided to sent Poitras but if Boston sent him considering or because Poitras never played WJC wouldn’t that go against the logic that playing in the NHL working on mastering pro habit is better, especially since Boston is a position that getting immediate result is more important since the are working toward contending for a cup this year.

No, I think it's very important that he has a role...earlier in the season and especially last year when it seemed like he wasn't playing much of a role, I was advocating for him to be sent down. Because there's nothing I hate more than seeing a prospect languishing playing 10 mins a game with no special teams.

But this isn't currently the case and it appears like they were slowly building him up.

As far as the rest of what you mentioned about playing with his countrymen/friend, winning a goald medal, etc.

None of this has to do with what's best for the Montreal Canadiens...he's a professional hockey player now, playing with his friend is not his job and what he's getting paid for. He also plays for the Montreal Canadiens and given he's already played in a WJC, he can represent his country at other international competitions.

Going to the WJC because it would give Habs fans good feels over the holidays ain't it for me.

Boston can spare Poitras, Pretty sure we were able to spare Slaf the situation are different, If anything Poitras as been a cinderella story with low expectations and lot of positive results on a playoff team, what would he gain from going to WJC, While Slaf was not reaching high expectations on a non playoff team playing limited min in the NHL trying to dig is way out… I kinda of think that the biggest difference is that you were against sending Slaf and you are ok with Boston sending Poitras.
Again I don’t care that you don’t see it has the correct decision but going to WJC is far from crazy as you are trying to make it seem since basically everything that applies to Poitras also apply to Slaf in some mesure, so unless you think Boston are making a mistake I can’t see how you can use any of these point to argue that they should not have at least consider sending Slaf when using basiaclly same argument for sending Poitras.

I really couldn't careless about what Boston is doing with Poitras, I don't cheer for the Bruins like I don't cheer for Team Slovakia. I'm only concerned with what's good for the Montreal Canadiens.

 

[417]

Nah... that train has passed. This is december 2023, BTW, If you're still expecting Slafkovsky to hit 80 points in his career, you need to catch up even more on development than I thought.

I've never said anything about point expectations for Slafkovsky, I don't get caught up in those kinds of things at this point.

As far as me "catching up" on development...you guys make me laugh, all of you act like you're experts on the topic lol.

That would have been the optimal trajectory.

Yet here we are.

Perhaps you think he'd be a PPG player had he been sent there. But i'm the one who needs to "catch up" on development lol.

Saying "it didn't work out" with Josh Anderson is another demonstration that you don't really understand how development work. He's actually a success story on how developing a player at the proper level of competition can pay off.

The hockey gatekeepers here make me laugh, always talking down to people like they're development experts but y'all are just like me...just on a hockey message board talking about hockey. The only difference is i'm humble enough to know that development is a complex thing, even experts who are involved in hockey development know that it's complex.

Professional development coaches don't get it right most of the time.

But y'all got all the answers lol...that's cute.

He was a middle six forward in junior. Not a guy with all the tools like Slaf. He was drafted in the 4th round for a reason. But playing against meaningful competition in junior and then in the AHL paid off for him. I don't rea

He was a middle six forward in junior and despite playing over 100 AHL games and participating in the WJCs.

He's still a middle six forward...imagine that.

lly know enough about Armia's past development so I'll refrain from commenting that case.

But it seems you have to be reminded time and time again: An optimal path just increases the chance a player will achieve his full potential. It does not guarantee it.

Yes, I keep being reminded by the same gatekeepers that development is some set plan that must be followed by every single player, a template that can't be deviated from.

Yawn.

It's useless to try to point at outliers to prove your point. It's also useless to point at individual players and their statistical curves and compare them to other players. I know a lot of people on both side of these arguments do that but that's not really how it works.

YOU brought up those outliers.

My posts are about listening to science, atheletic development and proven concepts like meaningful competition in youth. This is really basic stuff that, as a self-declared coach you should understand: basic stuff like a healthy ration of success/failure, growing in the proper environment, meaningful competition, and setting players up to succeed.

This organization, with its impatience, has failed this player starting in autumn 2022 by not sending him where he belongs and we are now stuck a season and a half later with a rushed product who shows great potential in certain facets, but is barely able to execute in certain areas and can't properly self evaluate.

I've never argued against any of these things you're referring too. I just don't believe in this magic pill theory the gatekeepers like to parrot. As a "self-declared coach" I see it every day. The player on my team whose grown the most this season, is the player who contributes the less on the scoresheet.

You can keep talking down to me like I don't understand development...I at least know that development isn't something that can be fully understood, there are bunch of variables that one just can never plan for. Anyone claiming to know exactly how it works is full of shit to be honest.

He's got too much natural talent to be useless and they can still turn him into a legit, consistent 50, 60 point top six guy, I guess. But it's going to be an uphill battle.

I'm not ready to cap his point total because so much of that is circumstantial...if for example the Habs sign Leon Draisaitl as a UFA in 2 years, I guarantee you that his point ceiling will rise.

I do agree that he has too much natural talent to be useless, where he ultimately ends up is in his hands and while i'm unsure of his ultimate ceiling at this point, i'm fairly confident that we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg with this player and despite all of the typical "sky is falling" Habs fans reactions.

Juraj Slafkovsky is actually one of the few 19 year old hockey players who are playing in the NHL in the world. That makes him exceptional by nature (don't confuse that with exceptional talent), not someone whose failing or on the verge of failing his entire career.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Nah... that train has passed. This is december 2023, BTW, If you're still expecting Slafkovsky to hit 80 points in his career, you need to catch up even more on development than I thought.

It’s absolutely hilarious that you point out that it’s currently 2023 and then go onto to chide another poster for thinking Slaf could be an 80 point player…

 

[417]

It’s absolutely hilarious that you point out that it’s currently 2023 and then go onto to chide another poster for thinking Slaf could be an 80 point player…

Which by the way, I've NEVER said that I think he can be a 80pt player, I've never advanced what I think his point ceiling could be.

Zach Hyman was a PPG player last year and is again this year...if you would have told me that 3-4 years ago I would have laughed.

But as I always like to say, production is mostly circumstancial.

 

[417]

https://x.com/MoneyPuckdotcom/status/1737842483919466930?s=20

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Which by the way, I've NEVER said that I think he can be a 80pt player, I've never advanced what I think his point ceiling could be.

Zach Hyman was a PPG player last year and is again this year...if you would have told me that 3-4 years ago I would have laughed.

But as I always like to say, production is mostly circumstancial.

If Slaf has a 50 pt ceiling playing with CC and Suzuki then he’s not a good 1OA pick but thankfully he’s not a bum so that’s actually his floor

https://x.com/MoneyPuckdotcom/status/1737842483919466930?s=20

There’s no way that line doesn’t click production wise at some point.

 

[417]

There’s no way that line doesn’t click production wise at some point.

But imagine what he could do at the WJCs with Mesar and Sykora on their top line??