Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[calder candidate]

LOL.

There was no negativity around HIM. His coaches, teammates and the GM were all pleased with how he was learning and improving. That is what counts.

Some FANS had negativity. Teams don't normally send players away from the team for weeks to satisfy some worried fans.

I don’t care what fan think and I would not do any move to satisfy public opinion if it was not the correct move… You are taken a possible by product and framing it as if this was the reason to make the move or what I think the decision should have been based on…
He was not contributing, he wasn’t being use in a significant role, sending him to WJC he could have had play against significant competition, that was the core of the arguments for sending him, you might still think that it isn’t worth it but you are the first to point out that Poitras was playing a lesser role so that why it was ok to send him, only giving strength to the previous agreement to send Slaf.
To take some pressure off a 18yo away from home get to interact with friends in is language that is a by product again not the reason to make a move but when you are weighting the options and impact that in the positive column.
That being said I completely disagree that there wasn’t any negativity around him, it not only fan and social media there were written, TV, radio media 24/7 all questioning if he was worth 1st, was he the right pick, questioning is hockey IQ, offensive up side and every single move he made, so maybe negativity isn’t the most accurate word pressure and scrutiny might be more accurate… but because this is MTL he was 1st OA pressure was pretty extreme for a 18yo, maybe you didn’t feel it, but just the fact that GM, coach and teammate had to field so many question about Slaf is a confirmation of that scrutiny was real and again it might not be negative but it not positive and team couldn’t shield him from it, if a team could case like Drouin and countless other, mental health issue and turning to substance abuse to cope would not be a thing in sport.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

This is Slaf's problem:
His second year: 44 shots in 31 games
As a rookie: 42 shots in 39 games
Fantilli: 82 shots in 33 games - rookie
Bedard: 100 shots in 31 games - rookie
Carlsson: 46 shots on 22 games - rookie
Cooley: 49 shots in 31 games - rookie

If you wonder why some of those players will be a career PPG players, while we'll be opening a champagne when Slaf hits 50 pts we should remember with what kind of resolve and confidence in their own abilities these players came to NHL, and how Slaf came. He is still looking for the pass first instead of opponent's goal.
We're in dire need of a top class goalscorer. Slaf will never be that

While I’m not trying to limit his offensive upside, Slafkovsky is a different type of player. Has Bedard or Cooley yet to throw a body check this year? Some players take longer to reach their respective offensive peaks. While he may never be a PPG player , he should score enough and coupled with his physicality and energy, Slafkovsky should be an important player for us going forward. He makes his linemates play bigger.

 

[waitin425]

Slaf has something that can't be taught. His size, reach and aggressive play is something that impacts the game far beyond an individual players point totals.

Will he be a pure sniper, 50g player? No.

Can you score 20-30 goals playing hard nosed in front of the net? Yes, he can, and I bet he will.

My current ceiling prediction on Slaf is a 70-85 point power forward.

I still want our team to acquire a purely offensive player in addition to our current crop.

 

[417]

I don’t care what fan think and I would not do any move to satisfy public opinion if it was not the correct move… You are taken a possible by product and framing it as if this was the reason to make the move or what I think the decision should have been based on…
He was not contributing, he wasn’t being use in a significant role, sending him to WJC he could have had play against significant competition, that was the core of the arguments for sending him, you might still think that it isn’t worth it but you are the first to point out that Poitras was playing a lesser role so that why it was ok to send him, only giving strength to the previous agreement to send Slaf.
To take some pressure off a 18yo away from home get to interact with friends in is language that is a by product again not the reason to make a move but when you are weighting the options and impact that in the positive column.
That being said I completely disagree that there wasn’t any negativity around him, it not only fan and social media there were written, TV, radio media 24/7 all questioning if he was worth 1st, was he the right pick, questioning is hockey IQ, offensive up side and every single move he made, so maybe negativity isn’t the most accurate word pressure and scrutiny might be more accurate… but because this is MTL he was 1st OA pressure was pretty extreme for a 18yo, maybe you didn’t feel it, but just the fact that GM, coach and teammate had to field so many question about Slaf is a confirmation of that scrutiny was real and again it might not be negative but it not positive and team couldn’t shield him from it, if a team could case like Drouin and countless other, mental health issue and turning to substance abuse to cope would not be a thing in sport.

More significant than the competition he was facing IN the NHL?

Is playing Austria/Germany/Latvia/Sweden U20s more significant competition than playing against ACTUAL NHL teams?

Is this the argument you want to run with?

 

[417]

This is Slaf's problem:
His second year: 44 shots in 31 games
As a rookie: 42 shots in 39 games
Fantilli: 82 shots in 33 games - rookie
Bedard: 100 shots in 31 games - rookie
Carlsson: 46 shots on 22 games - rookie
Cooley: 49 shots in 31 games - rookie

He hasn't even played a full NHL season yet...this isn't uncommon for young players, this is what the adjustment to the NHL looks like. For guys like Fantili or Bedard, not as big of an adjustment.

But go look at Byfield's first 82 games, he was averaging about 1.3 shots per game...this year he's right at 2 shots per game.

The problem is not Slafkovsky, it's that you don't have patience and understand that it's a process. You don't want to see players develop IN the NHL, you want to see finished products.

If you wonder why some of those players will be a career PPG players, while we'll be opening a champagne when Slaf hits 50 pts we should remember with what kind of resolve and confidence in their own abilities these players came to NHL, and how Slaf came. He is still looking for the pass first instead of opponent's goal.
We're in dire need of a top class goalscorer. Slaf will never be that

He definitely seems like more of a playmaker than goal scorer at this point...that doesn't mean he won't be able to score one day. But right now he's learning how to deal with the reduced time and space and the better goaltending at this level.

 

[Captain Mountain]

This is Slaf's problem:
His second year: 44 shots in 31 games
As a rookie: 42 shots in 39 games
Fantilli: 82 shots in 33 games - rookie
Bedard: 100 shots in 31 games - rookie
Carlsson: 46 shots on 22 games - rookie
Cooley: 49 shots in 31 games - rookie

If you wonder why some of those players will be a career PPG players, while we'll be opening a champagne when Slaf hits 50 pts we should remember with what kind of resolve and confidence in their own abilities these players came to NHL, and how Slaf came. He is still looking for the pass first instead of opponent's goal.
We're in dire need of a top class goalscorer. Slaf will never be that

Bedard is the best NHL prospect we've seen since McDavid. Fantilli and Carlsson are among the best we've seen since then too. Slaf shoots and shot at around the same rate as Cooley both of his seasons in the NHL.

I'm not sure what you're complaining about? That Montreal had 1st OA in 2022 instead of 2023? No one is arguing that the top of the 2023 draft was vastly better than the 2022 draft. I'm not sure what the point of complaining about that is.

That Montreal picked Slaf instead of Cooley? Its pretty premature to suggest that, but they produce at the same rate 5v5 and Slaf does a lot more on the ice generally. Cooley'd been better on the PP, but he also isn't a driving force there.

Montreal's in need of elite offensive talent more than a "top class goalscorer".

 

[DAChampion]

My rule of thumb is that D+1 NHL players should go to the WJC, but not D+2 players.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Sure they were only 3 but they were beauties.

Lest we forget, Last year we were worried he had no iq and tunnel vision. Not worried about his shot. He’s gonna put it all together and he’ll be great

 

[cave troll]

Bedard is the best NHL prospect we've seen since McDavid. Fantilli and Carlsson are among the best we've seen since then too. Slaf shoots and shot at around the same rate as Cooley both of his seasons in the NHL.

I'm not sure what you're complaining about? That Montreal had 1st OA in 2022 instead of 2023? No one is arguing that the top of the 2023 draft was vastly better than the 2022 draft. I'm not sure what the point of complaining about that is.

That Montreal picked Slaf instead of Cooley? Its pretty premature to suggest that, but they produce at the same rate 5v5 and Slaf does a lot more on the ice generally. Cooley'd been better on the PP, but he also isn't a driving force there.

Montreal's in need of elite offensive talent more than a "top class goalscorer".

All of these guys, including Cooley who is also a rookie are at double or triple production rate compared to Slaf.
I just pointed out that he isn't shooting and isn't producing. He's bigger, stronger, faster than these other guys and is not lacking in skill, but he lacks their confidence and doesn't look at opponent's goal. That why he'll have trouble to reach 10 goals this season and that's why he'll have trouble reach 20 goals seasons if he doesn't change his mindset.

 

[Kennerback]

Bedard is the best NHL prospect we've seen since McDavid. Fantilli and Carlsson are among the best we've seen since then too. Slaf shoots and shot at around the same rate as Cooley both of his seasons in the NHL.

I'm not sure what you're complaining about? That Montreal had 1st OA in 2022 instead of 2023? No one is arguing that the top of the 2023 draft was vastly better than the 2022 draft. I'm not sure what the point of complaining about that is.

That Montreal picked Slaf instead of Cooley? Its pretty premature to suggest that, but they produce at the same rate 5v5 and Slaf does a lot more on the ice generally. Cooley'd been better on the PP, but he also isn't a driving force there.

Montreal's in need of elite offensive talent more than a "top class goalscorer".

Problem with comparing Cooley with Slaf is comparing a player that needs to shoot from the periphery because he doesn’t yet have the size to get closer and a guy that regularly is smack in the middle of the slot, but still prefers dumping the puck towards anyone in the vicinity. Cooley is forced to not shoot much, Slaf makes the decision not to.

 

[calder candidate]

I'm not arguing against myself, i'm arguing that Poitras' situation this year, with the Bruins, in his first WJC, is not the same situation as Slafkovsky last year, on the Habs, having already played in a WJC (not to mention a WC and Olympics) there was nothing to be gained from sending him there other than allowing fans to watch him for a few weeks.

I would have started him in the AHL last year but they decided otherwise, it's just time to accept that decision and to stop acting like it changed the course of his career.

It didn't.

So what would have been the point, if the team was trying to integrate him into an NHL lineup and for him to learn to master NHL style habits?

We can't pick and choose when these WJC runs matter and when they don't. Throughout history, there have players who went to the WJC and won gold and were never heard from again, there are some who used that platform to propel themselves to NHL stardom, etc.

It's a 3 week tournament, it's a tiny part of a prospects season...I think we've overrated it's significance, especially in Canada where it's become tradition and TSN keeps pumping the idea that you have to be at this tournament or else your doomed.

It's really not that deep.

I don't agree they should have sent him but I understand why fans wanted/want to see it.

Again for Poitras though, it's a totally different situation.


lol oh I know this is entirely about easing insecurities and nothing to do with actual development.

It's funny, Joshua Roy has been one of the most productive Montreal Canadiens prospect at the WJC, if not the most productive.

He's still learning what it is to be a pro right now...WJCs are cool, they're hardly the magic pill people make it out to be.

Amateur is one thing...being a professional hockey player is a whole other, the former can't replicate the latter.

no one arguing that WJC is a magic pill or that it could have change it trajectory and immediate impact… Everyone has move on, it happen. Now, I was evaluating management decisions and seeing another team (one that is also having success) sending their player make me think that maybe it wasn’t such a crazy idea and maybe that the decision wasn’t optimal.

Like you say every player is different not sure what Roy WJC expirent come in with the decision to send Slaf, but for Roy that was a positive for him and the most significant competition he was able to face. He is a 5th round pick one of our best player in the AHL and progressing the fact that he isn’t having a impact in the NHL doesn’t have anything to do with WJC, and the fact that he hasn’t made it to the NHL doesn’t take anyway that is WJC experience is positive. Again not quite sure why Roy situation come in to it.

Slaf WJC team had a shot at goal I’m not saying that lead to NHL greatness but if is team was doing to fighting for relegation he isn’t being put in the same situation, and again that has to be something you consider at some point in the process because you are looking for positives outcomes.

Your are definitely making arguments against you self… because Poitras is a different player but in A very similar position, if the WJC isn’t a magic there also no way that playing bottom 6 in ~4 NHL games plays any factor in is career or mastering NHL habit. If Poitras isn’t playing a important role, Slaf wasn’t playing a important role. If the team is only going what best for the team than, There is nothing for poitras to be gain (that would not also apply to Slaf). He is also faced with the same challenges to becoming a professional player. the fact that Poitras hasn’t play in the WJC before doesn’t weight in for Boston they will be a playoff team they need everyone to be the best they can be.
Why is Boston sending Poitras?
They made the decision that playing against is age group vs. Significant competition for a small set period of time with a bigger role was a more positive for him long term or maybe even short term vs. playing in a reduced role in the NHL.
MTL didn’t make that determination at the time for some it was the right decision, for some it wasn’t and for some it was 50/50, turn out he when pts less in 15games (where the whole team played horrible/ depressing hockey) and had a season ending injury, what is done is done but pretty sure him missing half the season to injury ( which is something we can’t control) is a bigger factor than missing 10 days to go to WJC…
Even without hindsight I think there was more possible positives outcome to him going to WJC for 10 days than him playing reduce role in the NHL, your self believes that he should have been in the AHL. Now that we know that outcome and we see Boston send Poitras, we see ANA ease or load manage Carlsson in the line up. I don’t think it is far fetch to think that the decision that MTL made in handling Slaf in the first season were not optimal.

 

[sandviper]

His generational goal scoring against Kazakhstan aside, Slaf was never a shooter nor was he a mean and menacing power forward. He’s a playmaker, first and foremost.

Playing with Caufield and Suzuki, I don’t expect him to shoot more and he’ll probably be a lot like Dach early on in Chicago and defer to his linemates.

He absolutely should shoot more, as he has a great shot, and hoping this can be coached into him but it isn’t in his nature to shoot.

 

[calder candidate]

More significant than the competition he was facing IN the NHL?

Is playing Austria/Germany/Latvia/Sweden U20s more significant competition than playing against ACTUAL NHL teams?

Is this the argument you want to run with?

You need to understand that significant competition doesn’t necessarily mean the highest level of competition possible it is use for being the highest level of competition were the player is able to achieve good results yet still being challenging. Playing (or not playing many minutes) against competition that is too strong doesn’t help progression. Hockey is like every skill, they don’t give 1st grader war and peace as a reading assignment and they doesn’t sign the alphabet song in university everyone get challenged at the appropriate level base on where they are… for Slaf last year WJC would have consider significant competition… playing top minute in a important role going against the best in is age group which inclus a few players that are currently outperforming him…

 

[DAChampion]

His generational goal scoring against Kazakhstan aside, Slaf was never a shooter nor was he a mean and menacing power forward. He’s a playmaker, first and foremost.

Playing with Caufield and Suzuki, I don’t expect him to shoot more and he’ll probably be a lot like Dach early on in Chicago and defer to his linemates.

He absolutely should shoot more, as he has a great shot, and hoping this can be coached into him but it isn’t in his nature to shoot.

I think one can't be a good plsumaker in the NHL without being a goal scoring threat, at least 20 goals per year.

 

[417]

no one arguing that WJC is a magic pill or that it could have change it trajectory and immediate impact… Everyone has move on, it happen. Now, I was evaluating management decisions and seeing another team (one that is also having success) sending their player make me think that maybe it wasn’t such a crazy idea and maybe that the decision wasn’t optimal.

Well agree to disagree on that because like I explained, from my perspective, they're different situations.

Like you say every player is different not sure what Roy WJC expirent come in with the decision to send Slaf, but for Roy that was a positive for him and the most significant competition he was able to face. He is a 5th round pick one of our best player in the AHL and progressing the fact that he isn’t having a impact in the NHL doesn’t have anything to do with WJC, and the fact that he hasn’t made it to the NHL doesn’t take anyway that is WJC experience is positive. Again not quite sure why Roy situation come in to it.

Yes the experiment was a positive one for Roy, he won 2 WJC gold medals...he'll cherish those memories for life and no one can take that away from him.

But it really has no bearing on whether or not he's going to become an NHL player...he could have missed the WJC all together and i'm confident he'd still be exactly where he is today.

Slaf WJC team had a shot at goal I’m not saying that lead to NHL greatness but if is team was doing to fighting for relegation he isn’t being put in the same situation, and again that has to be something you consider at some point in the process because you are looking for positives outcomes.

I'm looking for positive outcomes for him with the Montreal Canadiens..

Your are definitely making arguments against you self… because Poitras is a different player but in A very similar position, if the WJC isn’t a magic there also no way that playing bottom 6 in ~4 NHL games plays any factor in is career or mastering NHL habit. If Poitras isn’t playing a important role, Slaf wasn’t playing a important role. If the team is only going what best for the team than, There is nothing for poitras to be gain (that would not also apply to Slaf). He is also faced with the same challenges to becoming a professional player. the fact that Poitras hasn’t play in the WJC before doesn’t weight in for Boston they will be a playoff team they need everyone to be the best they can be.
Why is Boston sending Poitras?

He's never played in the WJC, Zacha is back, Coyle and Geekie are all playing well.

Different situation.

They made the decision that playing against is age group vs. Significant competition for a small set period of time with a bigger role was a more positive for him long term or maybe even short term vs. playing in a reduced role in the NHL.
MTL didn’t make that determination at the time for some it was the right decision, for some it wasn’t and for some it was 50/50, turn out he when pts less in 15games (where the whole team played horrible/ depressing hockey) and had a season ending injury, what is done is done but pretty sure him missing half the season to injury ( which is something we can’t control) is a bigger factor than missing 10 days to go to WJC…
Even without hindsight I think there was more possible positives outcome to him going to WJC for 10 days than him playing reduce role in the NHL, your self believes that he should have been in the AHL. Now that we know that outcome and we see Boston send Poitras, we see ANA ease or load manage Carlsson in the line up. I don’t think it is far fetch to think that the decision that MTL made in handling Slaf in the first season were not optimal.

I know a lot of people argue this, but without actually being able to prove it...so sure, it's a theory.

 

[417]

You need to understand that significant competition doesn’t necessarily mean the highest level of competition possible it is use for being the highest level of competition were the player is able to achieve good results yet still being challenging.

Evaluating how a player is developing is much more complex than just looking at results though.

And while I understand that significant competition, doesn't necessarily mean the highest level of competition. But at the same time, it's hard arguing that inferior competition, assuming the player isn't completely overmatched (which he wasn't/isn't) is more beneficial than competing at the highest level.

Playing (or not playing many minutes) against competition that is too strong doesn’t help progression. Hockey is like every skill, they don’t give 1st grader war and peace as a reading assignment and they doesn’t sign the alphabet song in university everyone get challenged at the appropriate level base on where they are… for Slaf last year WJC would have consider significant competition… playing top minute in a important role going against the best in is age group which inclus a few players that are currently outperforming him…

Yeah this is definitely something that only hockey fans think, cause thats not how it it in other sports. There are plenty of players who sit 1, 2 or even 3 years before playing and no one is panicking about that.

It's unique to hockey and I understand that you can play in the NHL at 18, but for some reason, fans/media take that to mean that you absolutely have to excel if you do make it at 18 or 19 and if you aren't...well that's it, the rest of your career will be mapped out as a failure.

That's simply not true.

 

[calder candidate]

Yes the experiment was a positive one for Roy, he won 2 WJC gold medals...he'll cherish those memories for life and no one can take that away from him.

But it really has no bearing on whether or not he's going to become an NHL player...he could have missed the WJC all together and i'm confident he'd still be exactly where he is today.

Well if you want Slaf to face the best competition to help him progress won’t Roy also benefit from facing the best… I agree that it ultimately has no direct impact on if NHL futur and he probably in a similar situation regardless but having good results + success is motivating and that is integral part for progression. Again did WJC hurt is progression definitely not if anything it only help, we just can’t even determine how much, is it only great memories or actually help motivate or improve.

I'm looking for positive outcomes for him with the Montreal Canadiens..

He's never played in the WJC, Zacha is back, Coyle and Geekie are all playing well.

Different situation.

I know a lot of people argue this, but without actually being able to prove it...so sure, it's a theory.

Having positive outcome in mtl mean progression to be a dominant player, progression isn’t linear. Again doing to WJC for 10 days isn’t putting is future or progression in jeopardy. I not trying to say that it would have changed is trajectory but it could not hurt…

Your argument is that playing in the NHL is more beneficial regardless of if Slaf wasn’t playing any kind of role or contributing in any way, Playing with is countryman/friend, having success or winning goal in the biggest competition for is age group those aren’t factor to be consider since playing ~4 NHL is the better option. We will never know why Boston ultimately decided to sent Poitras but if Boston sent him considering or because Poitras never played WJC wouldn’t that go against the logic that playing in the NHL working on mastering pro habit is better, especially since Boston is a position that getting immediate result is more important since the are working toward contending for a cup this year.

Boston can spare Poitras, Pretty sure we were able to spare Slaf the situation are different, If anything Poitras as been a cinderella story with low expectations and lot of positive results on a playoff team, what would he gain from going to WJC, While Slaf was not reaching high expectations on a non playoff team playing limited min in the NHL trying to dig is way out… I kinda of think that the biggest difference is that you were against sending Slaf and you are ok with Boston sending Poitras.
Again I don’t care that you don’t see it has the correct decision but going to WJC is far from crazy as you are trying to make it seem since basically everything that applies to Poitras also apply to Slaf in some mesure, so unless you think Boston are making a mistake I can’t see how you can use any of these point to argue that they should not have at least consider sending Slaf when using basiaclly same argument for sending Poitras.

 

[Captain Mountain]

All of these guys, including Cooley who is also a rookie are at double or triple production rate compared to Slaf.
I just pointed out that he isn't shooting and isn't producing. He's bigger, stronger, faster than these other guys and is not lacking in skill, but he lacks their confidence and doesn't look at opponent's goal. That why he'll have trouble to reach 10 goals this season and that's why he'll have trouble reach 20 goals seasons if he doesn't change his mindset.

Ok? This isn't new. Everyone knew that even if Slafkovsky was the right pick, it would take time for him to adjust. Like, we're literally watching him change the way he plays right now as he gets more comfortable at the NHL/NA game.

There's also an element to his lack of goalscoring that is team/strategy based, which you can see with how many Habs wingers are dramatically under-performing their expected goals.

Problem with comparing Cooley with Slaf is comparing a player that needs to shoot from the periphery because he doesn’t yet have the size to get closer and a guy that regularly is smack in the middle of the slot, but still prefers dumping the puck towards anyone in the vicinity. Cooley is forced to not shoot much, Slaf makes the decision not to.

I'm not sure what you're argument is. That Slaf's offensive approach can't or won't development such that he's more comfortable to shoot, but Cooley hitting a late growth spurt will?

 

[Kennerback]

Ok? This isn't new. Everyone knew that even if Slafkovsky was the right pick, it would take time for him to adjust. Like, we're literally watching him change the way he plays right now as he gets more comfortable at the NHL/NA game.

There's also an element to his lack of goalscoring that is team/strategy based, which you can see with how many Habs wingers are dramatically under-performing their expected goals.



I'm not sure what you're argument is. That Slaf's offensive approach can't or won't development such that he's more comfortable to shoot, but Cooley hitting a late growth spurt will?

Cooley needs to fill out to generate as many opportunities as Slaf. As for Slaf, I fail to see the point of his fancy throwaway passes every time he creates an opportunity if the goal is to produce points. It’s a non-sensical tactic. I don’t know why the coaching staff lets him still do it.

Just shooting and putting the puck on net without thinking every time he’s within distance is a much better strategy for points, even considering his sub-par shot release. It’s not a high IQ strategy but would be much more profitable in terms of points.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Cooley needs to fill out to generate as many opportunities as Slaf. As for Slaf, I fail to see the point of his fancy throwaway passes every time he creates an opportunity if the goal is to produce points. It’s a non-sensical tactic. I don’t know why the coaching staff lets him still do it.

Just shooting and putting the puck on net without thinking every time he’s within distance is a much better strategy for points, even considering his sub-par shot release. It’s not a high IQ strategy but would be much more profitable in terms of points.

Huh? I don't see that Cooley needs to fill out more to generate more chances, or that there's a lot more to fill out. Like, his frame is pretty close to Gallagher's (Gallagher - 175cm/83kg vs Cooley - 178cm/79kg). Gallagher never needed more size to get to dangerous areas of the ice and its not clear that Cooley has that much more to fill out or that that filling out would significantly change his ability to get to scoring areas more. Cooley needs to adjust to the NHL game and figure out how best to play his game - same as Slafkovsky.

It was always going to be a process with Slaf. It may be that he wasn't the right pick, but we can't really draw a conclusion right now.

 

[calder candidate]

Evaluating how a player is developing is much more complex than just looking at results though.

And while I understand that significant competition, doesn't necessarily mean the highest level of competition. But at the same time, it's hard arguing that inferior competition, assuming the player isn't completely overmatched (which he wasn't/isn't) is more beneficial than competing at the highest level.

I definitely understand that development is complex, non linear and when I use result I don’t mean pts ( no sure if it is what you are issuing)

He could play in the NHL he wasn’t having any kind of impact to the game or play significant role or minute… Even if he isn’t totally overmatch, he was just barely able to keep is head out of the water, that isn’t a necessary environment that is conducive to progress.

Yeah this is definitely something that only hockey fans think, cause thats not how it it in other sports. There are plenty of players who sit 1, 2 or even 3 years before playing and no one is panicking about that.

It's unique to hockey and I understand that you can play in the NHL at 18, but for some reason, fans/media take that to mean that you absolutely have to excel if you do make it at 18 or 19 and if you aren't...well that's it, the rest of your career will be mapped out as a failure.

That's simply not true.

Not sure if I wasn’t clear or that you misunderstood my point but it was playing against stronger competition doesn’t automatically lead to improvement especially if it is too strong. I never said anything about Slaf being a bust or that he was never going to progress or it was time to panic…
To be clear Slaf would have been my pick1stOA.

Again if other sport are able to sit player 1-3 years and being patient and it is totally fine aren’t you undercutting your own argument that sending Slaf to WJC (for 10 days) wasn’t worth it because he need to learn NHL habit.

My point is still that WJC should have been a consider as a viable option and even if it is not a outright mistake by management I think it is perfectly fair to question it. Not going to lie spent way to much of my time replying to you today so…

 

[Jeune Poulet]

But he can also do this IN the NHL.

Nah... that train has passed. This is december 2023, BTW, If you're still expecting Slafkovsky to hit 80 points in his career, you need to catch up even more on development than I thought.

Do you think the only way to prevent this from happening is for him to spend some time in the AHL?

That would have been the optimal trajectory.

But why didn't that work with Armia and Anderson, who both spent a considerable amount of time in the AHL before becoming full time NHL players?

Saying "it didn't work out" with Josh Anderson is another demonstration that you don't really understand how development work. He's actually a success story on how developing a player at the proper level of competition can pay off.

He was a middle six forward in junior. Not a guy with all the tools like Slaf. He was drafted in the 4th round for a reason. But playing against meaningful competition in junior and then in the AHL paid off for him. I don't really know enough about Armia's past development so I'll refrain from commenting that case.

But it seems you have to be reminded time and time again: An optimal path just increases the chance a player will achieve his full potential. It does not guarantee it.

It's useless to try to point at outliers to prove your point. It's also useless to point at individual players and their statistical curves and compare them to other players. I know a lot of people on both side of these arguments do that but that's not really how it works.

My posts are about listening to science, atheletic development and proven concepts like meaningful competition in youth. This is really basic stuff that, as a self-declared coach you should understand: basic stuff like a healthy ration of success/failure, growing in the proper environment, meaningful competition, and setting players up to succeed.

This organization, with its impatience, has failed this player starting in autumn 2022 by not sending him where he belongs and we are now stuck a season and a half later with a rushed product who shows great potential in certain facets, but is barely able to execute in certain areas and can't properly self evaluate.

He's got too much natural talent to be useless and they can still turn him into a legit, consistent 50, 60 point top six guy, I guess. But it's going to be an uphill battle.

 

[cave troll]

Ok? This isn't new. Everyone knew that even if Slafkovsky was the right pick, it would take time for him to adjust. Like, we're literally watching him change the way he plays right now as he gets more comfortable at the NHL/NA game.

There's also an element to his lack of goalscoring that is team/strategy based, which you can see with how many Habs wingers are dramatically under-performing their expected goals.

Yes. Goalscoring is our problem but if we can point out a player for whom scoring a goal is the biggest challenge that's Slafkofsky. 4 in 39 games last year, 2 in 31 games this year.
And it's not a problem of skill which he has plenty. It's not about adjustment. It's all about his head.
Time is passing quickly and this league is unforgiving.

 

[Jaaanosik]

Yes. Goalscoring is our problem but if we can point out a player for whom scoring a goal is the biggest challenge that's Slafkofsky. 4 in 39 games last year, 2 in 31 games this year.
And it's not a problem of skill which he has plenty. It's not about adjustment. It's all about his head.
Time is passing quickly and this league is unforgiving.

CC is a bigger concern for me with just 8 goals so far.

 

[417]

Well if you want Slaf to face the best competition to help him progress won’t Roy also benefit from facing the best… I agree that it ultimately has no direct impact on if NHL futur and he probably in a similar situation regardless but having good results + success is motivating and that is integral part for progression. Again did WJC hurt is progression definitely not if anything it only help, we just can’t even determine how much, is it only great memories or actually help motivate or improve.

Again, we can't always think that what is good for Player A is also good for player B.

Roy is where he's supposed to be right now because mostly, there's no room for him in Montreal right now.

They want him to play and play a lot and Laval affords him that opportunity.

Having positive outcome in mtl mean progression to be a dominant player, progression isn’t linear. Again doing to WJC for 10 days isn’t putting is future or progression in jeopardy. I not trying to say that it would have changed is trajectory but it could not hurt…

Like I said earlier, doing something because it can't hurt, isn't a valid reason to just do something. The best thing to do is to do things that can help a player.

Going to the WJC right now, or last year if you prefer, was not going to help him more than being in the NHL. It's a 2 week tournament.

Your argument is that playing in the NHL is more beneficial regardless of if Slaf wasn’t playing any kind of role or contributing in any way, Playing with is countryman/friend, having success or winning goal in the biggest competition for is age group those aren’t factor to be consider since playing ~4 NHL is the better option. We will never know why Boston ultimately decided to sent Poitras but if Boston sent him considering or because Poitras never played WJC wouldn’t that go against the logic that playing in the NHL working on mastering pro habit is better, especially since Boston is a position that getting immediate result is more important since the are working toward contending for a cup this year.

No, I think it's very important that he has a role...earlier in the season and especially last year when it seemed like he wasn't playing much of a role, I was advocating for him to be sent down. Because there's nothing I hate more than seeing a prospect languishing playing 10 mins a game with no special teams.

But this isn't currently the case and it appears like they were slowly building him up.

As far as the rest of what you mentioned about playing with his countrymen/friend, winning a goald medal, etc.

None of this has to do with what's best for the Montreal Canadiens...he's a professional hockey player now, playing with his friend is not his job and what he's getting paid for. He also plays for the Montreal Canadiens and given he's already played in a WJC, he can represent his country at other international competitions.

Going to the WJC because it would give Habs fans good feels over the holidays ain't it for me.

Boston can spare Poitras, Pretty sure we were able to spare Slaf the situation are different, If anything Poitras as been a cinderella story with low expectations and lot of positive results on a playoff team, what would he gain from going to WJC, While Slaf was not reaching high expectations on a non playoff team playing limited min in the NHL trying to dig is way out… I kinda of think that the biggest difference is that you were against sending Slaf and you are ok with Boston sending Poitras.
Again I don’t care that you don’t see it has the correct decision but going to WJC is far from crazy as you are trying to make it seem since basically everything that applies to Poitras also apply to Slaf in some mesure, so unless you think Boston are making a mistake I can’t see how you can use any of these point to argue that they should not have at least consider sending Slaf when using basiaclly same argument for sending Poitras.

I really couldn't careless about what Boston is doing with Poitras, I don't cheer for the Bruins like I don't cheer for Team Slovakia. I'm only concerned with what's good for the Montreal Canadiens.