Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[le_sean]

That's not a comparative analogy to what's happening right now.

Yes he was/is raw, but not nearly as much as many of you have tried to pain the picture as.

Telling people "to be patient" while overreacting to small samples of play in the NHL seems contradictory to me. Being patient doesn't mean only being patient if he's in the AHL...it also applies to Slaf IN the NHL.

Also, the reason why there's a large amount of prospects in lower leagues is fairly obvious...not sure what this has to do with Slafkovsky.

He IS learning gradually, if you tracked his progress over the first 60 odd games of his NHL career, you can see the gradual progress.

The issue for so many, not saying this applies to you necessarily, is that progress hasn't been tied to points and that's what drives the narrative of so many here.

Watch, the next dry spell (and believe me, it's coming), the same people who seem absent lately...will be back with a vengeance and this cycle will continue for a while still.

The issue is that he’s a 1st overall pick. The rhetoric has changed completely because of that simple fact. So now people unfairly compare him to other 1st overall picks as if that argument has any weight. He should be compared to his own draft class, of which there are zero standouts. But this label will always unfairly loom over his head.

 

[Whitesnake]

As kindergarten as thinking that scoring in the AHL would help him score more in the NHL lol.

You actually don't think that gaining confidence at lower levels help improving at higher levels? Besides, who here SOLELY talks about scoring in the NHL when it's question to slowly bring a kid in the NHL?

And I have no idea why you bring the ''you can develop in the NHL'' rhetoric. Everybody develops in the NHL. It's never about that. It's not about developing things while you are already ready to go. It,s about learning when you are not.

 

[Scriptor]

But you are asking some here to do the unthinkable: be patient. How unreasonable of you.

It's commendable for the older fans to be patient, not just because they might be embarking on the road to Valhalla sooner than younger fans, but because of the glory days experienced as hockey fans serving as a measuring stick.

Patience is the key word when analyzing a 19-yr-old.

Of course, if there were no harbingers of better days, it would be difficult to preach patience, but I think we see such signs from Slafkovsky's play.

 

[Mrb1p]

That's not a comparative analogy to what's happening right now.

Yes he was/is raw, but not nearly as much as many of you have tried to pain the picture as.

Telling people "to be patient" while overreacting to small samples of play in the NHL seems contradictory to me. Being patient doesn't mean only being patient if he's in the AHL...it also applies to Slaf IN the NHL.

Also, the reason why there's a large amount of prospects in lower leagues is fairly obvious...not sure what this has to do with Slafkovsky.

He IS learning gradually, if you tracked his progress over the first 60 odd games of his NHL career, you can see the gradual progress.

The issue for so many, not saying this applies to you necessarily, is that progress hasn't been tied to points and that's what drives the narrative of so many here.

Watch, the next dry spell (and believe me, it's coming), the same people who seem absent lately...will be back with a vengeance and this cycle will continue for a while still.

It doesn't really matter if he picks up assists on transition (i think his last three of four points were from the nz or dz, or at least one of those on the cycle as a 2nd assist).

To me it matters if he creates, if he imposes his will offensively, if he can express himself as a player. I dont think its farfetched to say he has not, probably never, done this. Were just gonna end up with a player that can't and won't shoot and tunnels on the pass, like you admitted he does. This is actual bad habits he will pick up, not the quarter second more hed have in the AHL to get a shot off.

Again, Kotkaniemi path. Id much rather he takes the Robertson path.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

A watched pot never boils folks.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Hard to send him down when he is better at 5 on 5 on both ends of the ice than 3/4's of the team...

 

[417]

The issue is that he’s a 1st overall pick. The rhetoric has changed completely because of that simple fact. So now people unfairly compare him to other 1st overall picks as if that argument has any weight. He should be compared to his own draft class, of which there are zero standouts. But this label will always unfairly loom over his head.

To me it's wild because the same people who talk about "rushing prospects" are the same people who jump to conclusions because Slafkovsky isn't 0.67258954 PPG after 60 games like ___________ (insert former 1st overall pick).

 

[Mrb1p]

There's no way you just wrote that? lol

Kotkaniemi is a perfect example of a player whose development was stunted as a result of a coaching staff who preferred playing washed veterans like Thompson and Staal instead of KK...or they preferred the valuable minutes Danault provided instead of doing a better job integrating KK.

He hasn't reinvented himself lol...he's played and produced like a solid #2C because that's who he is and has always been and was drafted to be. There isn't a single soul who thought when the Habs drafted him that he was going to be an elite #1C.

Yet I've been in countless debates on here pushing against that very idea...that "the NHL is a not a developmental league". People LOVE repeating that.

When the Habs played the Coyotes a few weeks back, Andre Tourigny was kind enough to provide us with that same soundbite that Habs fans ate up. This was the same coach who while lecturing Habs fans that the NHL is not a developmental league (in relation to Slaf), also was simultaneously admitting that Logan Cooley was developing in the NHL lol.

I mean if you dont believe in development just say so. If he is who he is and never reinvented himself, why does it matter that Julien "stunted" him by Nate Thompsoning him?

And yes, plenty of people thoight KK had more in him, youre rewriting history. Read the draft thread, read his scouting report, read what Timmins and MB had to say, read any draft list. Youre wrong and you should stop pushing this. Its the last time ill entertain you on such a blatant lie, thanks. If its just an omission and not a lie, then fine.

The NHL isnt a development league, it doesnt mean you cant develop, you really NEED to stop being purposely obtuse. Youre a legit good poster but this post just sucks man. Again, I know you can do better.

Hard to send him down when he is better at 5 on 5 on both ends of the ice than 3/4's of the team...

20/24 players should be in the NHL, is this really an argument? Why is Roy in the AHL? Heck, is Farrel worse than Anderson?

 

[417]

You actually don't think that gaining confidence at lower levels help improving at higher levels?

Sure, it can help, but those kinds of boosts are artificial and don't really provide long-term lasting benefits.

Ultimately, confidence comes and goes in the NHL...the answer can't always be to go down to the AHL to try to find it.

There can also be a lot of benefit to learning how to deal with adversity, don't get me wrong, I don't think every player should follow the path that Slafkovsky is on.

Besides, who here SOLELY talks about scoring in the NHL when it's question to slowly bring a kid in the NHL?

Most of the people who wanted him sent to the AHL, it's because of the lack of production...100% score vision.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

It's commendable for the older fans to be patient, not just because they might be embarking on the road to Valhalla sooner than younger fans, but because of the glory days experienced as hockey fans serving as a measuring stick.

Patience is the key word when analyzing a 19-yr-old.

Of course, if there were no harbingers of better days, it would be difficult to preach patience, but I think we see such signs from Slafkovsky's play.

I think you can still get cable in Valhalla. Well that is what I was told.

 

[Whitesnake]

Not scoring was the argument that AHL backers were making to send him down. NHL backers are currently saying......that argument has been refutted. It is not the scoring that shows he should be in the NHL, it was all of the other stuff he was doing. But it was the lack of scoring that several posters hung their hat on to argue for the A. You know that is the truth White, and now trying to flip that argument around. That is kindergarten bullshit.

NHL has and will be the best place for Slaf to develop. The current proof lies in his past 7 games. The bigger proof is the curve with which he is developing over this entire season.

If you don,t mind, I'll speak for myself. couldn't care less what the ''others"" are or are not saying. I'm an AHL backer and scoring was a part of why he should have. Just like EVERY OTHER PROSPECT that are not exceptionals should.

You use hindsight to say that the proof like in his past 7 games. Yet, if we would have taken the first 7....we were not right to use the AHL as a great place to be? If he goes into a slump, will we be right to say to send him in tihe AHL now? How does that work? Or is it a 1-way street?

 

[417]

I mean if you dont believe in development just say so. If he is who he is and never reinvented himself, why does it matter that Julien "stunted" him by Nate Thompsoning him?

If I don't believe in development just say so? lol

Yeah...not quite the issue here. Again, i'll repeat it, I've fought against the adage that the NHL is a not a developmental league.

That is and has always been full of shit.

As for the rest of that post, I don't want to get into a KK discussion...let's just stick to the topic before deviating.

And yes, plenty of people thoight KK had more in him, youre rewriting history. Read the draft thread, read his scouting report, read what Timmins and MB had to say, read any draft list. Youre wrong and you should stop pushing this. Its the last time ill entertain you on such a blatant lie, thanks. If its just an omission and not a lie, then fine.

When Kotkaniemi was drafted, he was billed as a future top 6 2 way C...I never ever saw anyone who believed he'd be a franchise #1C.

If that bothers you to the point that it's the last time you'll entertain me on "such a blatant lie"..I don't know what to say...but maybe smoke a joint or do something to relax, it's not that serious man lol

Jeez.

The NHL isnt a development league, it doesnt mean you cant develop, you really NEED to stop being purposely obtuse. Youre a legit good poster but this post just sucks man. Again, I know you can do better.

Didn't you JUST argue that NO ONE has ever said this? lol

 

[Mrb1p]

If I don't believe in development just say so? lol

Yeah...not quite the issue here. Again, i'll repeat it, I've fought against the adage that the NHL is a not a developmental league.

That is and has always been full of shit.

As for the rest of that post, I don't want to get into a KK discussion...let's just stick to the topic before deviating.

When Kotkaniemi was drafted, he was billed as a future top 6 2 way C...I never ever saw anyone who believed he'd be a franchise #1C.

If that bothers you to the point that it's the last time you'll entertain me on "such a blatant lie"..I don't know what to say...but maybe smoke a joint or do something to relax, it's not that serious man lol

Jeez.

Didn't you JUST argue that NO ONE has ever said this? lol

No read what was said in both posts... like ... I dont know if you do it on purpose but cmon.


Also plz elaborate on the KK thing, Im very curious, because it directly contradicts what you just said.

 

[Whitesnake]

Sure, it can help, but those kinds of boosts are artificial and don't really provide long-term lasting benefits.

Ultimately, confidence comes and goes in the NHL...the answer can't always be to go down to the AHL to try to find it.

There can also be a lot of benefit to learning how to deal with adversity, don't get me wrong, I don't think every player should follow the path that Slafkovsky is on.

Most of the people who wanted him sent to the AHL, it's because of the lack of production...100% score vision.

Artificial? How so? When players ask to be retrograded to get their game going....why do they do that if it's not an everlasting effect? You say that players can develop in the NHL, true, They can't develop in lower levels?

Yep, confidences comes and goes. Besides, there's a certain point where you can't send guys in the AHL because of waivers. Which is why teams benefit from players under 23 to be patient with them.

Besides, I have no idea why everything we want Slaf to do in tihe NHL would not have been able to do it at 19 or 20. He still would have been young. Still would have develop. The difference is that you could have been able to build something more solidly with a stronger basis.

 

[le_sean]

It’s weird to talk about growing a player’s confidence as if we are in the dressing room observing him all of the time. I think if there’s one player whose confidence has always been there, it’s Slafkovsky. He’s always smiling, not afraid to try things, and he never has negative body language. He seems fine when the media pesters him about his lack of production. He has bought into the long-term and step-by-step development that the staff has him doing. It seems like a lot of projecting.

 

[waitin425]

If you don,t mind, I'll speak for myself. couldn't care less what the ''others"" are or are not saying. I'm an AHL backer and scoring was a part of why he should have. Just like EVERY OTHER PROSPECT that are not exceptionals should.

You use hindsight to say that the proof like in his past 7 games. Yet, if we would have taken the first 7....we were not right to use the AHL as a great place to be? If he goes into a slump, will we be right to say to send him in tihe AHL now? How does that work? Or is it a 1-way street?

Absolutely it is a two way street. If he goes into a slump that justifies a trip down to Laval, I would actually support that. I have yet to see that slump, and in fact we are seeing the opposite. He is picking up momentum. There is no hindsight involved here. He is currently an NHLer. It was precarious at times earlier in the season, but the NHL was what I supported for his development. Why can't you have any reflection and hindsight and say....you know what....he is coming along swimmingly in the NHL. Again....what exactly is your metric for that? When will you reach that point?

 

[Whitesnake]

How do you send a guy down when the team is at .500 with an outside shot at a playoff spot and he’s one of the team’s best forwards? Riddle me that one.

First, my take about sending him in the AHL was way before where we are now. OBVIOUSLY, since the team is all about winning, you can't do it now. We are past that now. But a team with a vision still knows that we are not there yet and that if they would be hesitating to choose between Slaf development and us MAYBE making it and losing early...I would hope they'd choose Slaf. Clearly, that's not their thinking.

It’s weird to talk about growing a player’s confidence as if we are in the dressing room observing him all of the time. I think if there’s one player whose confidence has always been there, it’s Slafkovsky. He’s always smiling, not afraid to try things, and he never has negative body language. He seems fine when the media pesters him about his lack of production. He has bought into the long-term and step-by-step development that the staff has him doing. It seems like a lot of projecting.

No. It,s always about a fan,s perspective. If we'd discuss about what we know for sure, we'd close the forum. Personnally, my confidence point is about shooting when it's time to shoot. It's about knowing where to position himself in all 3 zones not looking lost. It,s about dominating the boards and not being sorry to do it. I'm not talking about how he handles himself in the room or in front of journalists.

 

[417]

No read what was said in both posts... like ... I dont know if you do it on purpose but cmon.

You LITERALLY just wrote that no one said that the NHL is not a developmental league. It's right here at the beginning.

Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

What I want to know is this.....what is the metric by which @Whitesnake @Mrb1p @ReHabs and others will measure Slaf being in the NHL a success. When will we know, in your mind that he belongs? Is it something like5 more points in his next 7.....10 more in his next 14....does he have to reach...

forums.hfboards.com

now you just wrote EXACTLY that lol

And then somehow, you're projecting on me??

Damn...nasty nasty work lol

Also plz elaborate on the KK thing, Im very curious, because it directly contradicts what you just said.

It doesn't contradict what I said lol but again, it's deviating from the topic and I'm not really into debating how if the Habs hadn't "rushed" Kotkaniemi at 18 years old, he'd be a franchise #1C right now.

You can save those fairytales for your grandchildren one day lol

 

[Whitesnake]

What I want to know is this.....what is the metric by which @Whitesnake @Mrb1p @ReHabs and others will measure Slaf being in the NHL a success. When will we know, in your mind that he belongs? Is it something like5 more points in his next 7.....10 more in his next 14....does he have to reach PPG pace? Is it simply your eye test? Outperform his draft class (he is already doing it)?

Give us something guys. What is the metric we can all use to measure Slaf and know he has made it?

No metric. Him handling himself as a NHL player and improving every game. Seeing him shoot more and finding open lanes. If he shoots 10 times on net and doesn't score, he'd be more succesful in my eyes than him shooting 1 time and scoring once on somebody,s butt.

One day, Slaf will and should be measured in points. At 19, he should be measured in how he handles himself.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

First 24 career NHL games:

Slafkovsky: 4 goals 10 pts, -1, 11:43 ATOI
Fantili: 4 goals 10 pts, -11, 15.33 ATOI

 

[Whitesnake]

While Slaf do look better lately, I just think it's ludicrous to think that it prooves he didn't need a AHL stint.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Yes you can, nobody ever said you couldnt. Its just not optimal both time wise and quality wise.

Again, Kotkaniemi is the perfect example. He developped "fine". It took 6 years and he's about 70% in his ultimate ceiling, he had to reinvent his offensive skillset because he never got the time to learn to dominate and push his tools to the maximum.

I was saying exactly the same thing in 18-19. I know you'll just say "He just never was that good", but thats just not true and rewriting history.

On another note, yes, you can 100% get better in the NHL and some even surpass their ceilings. Brady Tkachuk had low-ish end vision, and now hes a PPG player.

On the other hand, Dach came in the league with game breaking talent, but with problems when it comes to a) getting his shot off and b) picking his spot to shoot. He still has the same weakness today.

It’s almost like clockwork. When someone says ‘nobody ever said x’ when that’s just about all that’s being said.

I love you @Mrb1p but you waste your very perspicacious scouting talents making the most hyperbolic statements made in a blind noble passion then spending the next 6 months trying to dig your way out of them/rationally defending them.

You’re so much better than this! lol

 

[417]

Artificial? How so? When players ask to be retrograded to get their game going....why do they do that if it's not an everlasting effect? You say that players can develop in the NHL, true, They can't develop in lower levels?

Artificial in the sense that confidence comes and goes...and yes, if you're a player whose eligible to be sent down and you're struggling with confidence in the NHL, going down to the AHL can help you find your confidence and your game. Temporarily, it's a good option for some.

It's not an everlasting effect though because of the human nature of sports...confidence comes and goes. Look at Cole Caufield the last few weeks, he wasn't as confidence as what we're used to seeing, did anyone seriously think going down to the AHL would have been a good option to get him going again?

Why didn't anyone suggest that for Caufield? He was eligible as far as I know, he hasn't played more than the required 160 games for him to have to be waived to go down to the AHL.

It's also funny that you finally agreeing with me that NHL players CAN development in the NHL...when a few weeks ago, and in years past, whenever I said so you were one of the many who vehemently argued against that very idea.

Now you've decided to move the goal posts to me implying you can't develop in lower levels?

I'm sorry, but I've never argued this lol

Yep, confidences comes and goes. Besides, there's a certain point where you can't send guys in the AHL because of waivers. Which is why teams benefit from players under 23 to be patient with them.

See above example with Cole Caufield.

Besides, I have no idea why everything we want Slaf to do in tihe NHL would not have been able to do it at 19 or 20. He still would have been young. Still would have develop. The difference is that you could have been able to build something more solidly with a stronger basis.

Says you but there's no evidence of that.

Maybe if he was in the AHL during this time, he'd have been scoring and ignoring the parts of his game that we're seeing with our eyes right now which are getting better and better. Maybe he's scoring in the AHL and not focusing on his board play, which was a clear area of focus.

 

[Mrb1p]

You LITERALLY just wrote that no one said that the NHL is not a developmental league. It's right here at the beginning.

Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

What I want to know is this.....what is the metric by which @Whitesnake @Mrb1p @ReHabs and others will measure Slaf being in the NHL a success. When will we know, in your mind that he belongs? Is it something like5 more points in his next 7.....10 more in his next 14....does he have to reach...

forums.hfboards.com

now you just wrote EXACTLY that lol

And then somehow, you're projecting on me??

Damn...nasty nasty work lol

It doesn't contradict what I said lol but again, it's deviating from the topic and I'm not really into debating how if the Habs hadn't "rushed" Kotkaniemi at 18 years old, he'd be a franchise #1C right now.

You can save those fairytales for your grandchildren one day lol

Surely you can distinguish the two statements? The NHL is not a developmental league but you can develop in it?

As for the KK thing, I really want to know and I know youre dodging because it directly contradicts the prior statement you just made.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

First 24 career NHL games:

Slafkovsky: 4 goals 10 pts, -1, 11:43 ATOI
Fantili: 4 goals 10 pts, -11, 15.33 ATOI

Now I'll go find a 2nd rounder who did better than both.

I'm not sure why people are trying to draw any conclusions from such small sample sizes. The sad truth is that is you want to see progress, measuring stats every ten games isn't telling you much of anything.

You're better off listening to what the coach says about him -- he's honest, and also the only one who knows what Slaf is being asked to do. He's being given areas of his game to improve and I promise you "points" isn't one of them right now.