Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[le_sean]

He doesn't show that top skating speed too often.I have watched for the most part 3/4 of his games .He always looks to be behind the play to me .Other players seem to a lot faster than he is.Either that or i drink too much or my vison has gone south.Just what i am seeing

He’s just like a locomotive. Takes him a few strides to get going but the top speed is fine.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He has 5 points in his last 7 games since he played with Caufield and Dvorak. That’s not a 30 points pace.

He’s been playing with CC longer than 7 games though. More like 12.

Again though, he should’ve been rewarded with points but wasn’t. What matters most is that his play was night and day better. He’s been good for about 12 games now.

What I want to know is this.....what is the metric by which @Whitesnake @Mrb1p @ReHabs and others will measure Slaf being in the NHL a success. When will we know, in your mind that he belongs? Is it something like5 more points in his next 7.....10 more in his next 14....does he have to reach PPG pace? Is it simply your eye test? Outperform his draft class (he is already doing it)?

Give us something guys. What is the metric we can all use to measure Slaf and know he has made it?

Those are three very different posters you’ve put together.

I dont know why you lump me in there lmao.

Ill know when hes a top 6 winger that can put up over 65 points a year. I really dont care for him to survive and end up as another Kotkaniemi.

I said the same thing about Jesperi, by the way.

Slaf is a good player, hes talented, hes gonna be good probably no matter what, just like KK, but not unlike KK, I want more from him. I want an elite player. This, is in most case, acquired either by just sheer talent or by hard work in the proper channels.

Right now, Slafkovsky has neither of those things.

Right now he’s 19 years old.

 

[waitin425]

Yes and no. Point production was definitely part of it. But his development has been uneven.

His play improved tremendously when he was moved up. For a while that play wasn’t rewarded with point production. Now… fortunately, it is.

5 in his last 7 is great. But I don’t think he’s going to do that the rest of the way. And it won’t surprise me at all if the team’s production drops as it did last year.

What matters is that he maintains his level of play and continues to improve. But I would be surprised if he maintains this recent points pace. I hope people don’t get carried away with it because I think there’s going to be a step back.

I felt he should be in the minors/Europe last year. Still feel that way.

This year I’ve gone back and forth. At the start I was for him going to the AHL. Then he and Dach ripped it up and I thought maybe it could work. Dach got hurt and he looked lost… at that point I argued to send him down or move him up. They moved him up and he’s been really good since.

So… would it have been better to start him in the minors at the beginning? I think so but we’ll never know. I think there’s little little doubt though that he’s earned his spot since moving up with CC. Still lots to work on but he’s coming along.

What matters is this: Does he belong in the NHL now? I think you’ll find few people who wouldn’t say ‘yes’.

Reasonable arguments all along. Anyone who doesn't talk in definite terms wins points with me. To your last point. He does belong in the NHL right now. He is playing very good hockey. I started to waiver around the 10 game mark this year, and also wanted to see him moved up the lineup. If that didn't work, I would have been fine with a stint in the AHL. I am glad it worked.

I fully expect rocky games in the future and even brief periods of down play. But I also expect an overall progression come years end. Personally, I think that progression will be pretty significant and will be fully realized by next year. I've said it a few times about arguing Slaf. We really shouldn't be having debates about how he was handled until the end of 2025.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I’ve just stayed away lately. There’s some positive signs with his development but I’m not going to pretend that pacing for around 30 points playing with the teams best offensive players is some big feat. There’s nothing to celebrate yet some people feel it’s time to dish out the “I told you so’s.”

5 in 7 will probably not last. But the 0 in five he had before that while playing well wasn’t indicative of his play.

It’s so much more than just points when you’re at this stage. That’s why the posts on his ‘pace’ being among the worst ever was so stupid. The Cooley comparison was particularly laughable when usage wasn’t factored in at all. It was (and remains) disingenuous bs and hopefully that nonsense will come to an end (though I doubt it.)

That he’s starting to get points is not surprising. That he had zero in his previous five or so games was.

Going forward my hope is that he paces for around 35/82. Pretty much what I was hoping before the year. But if he doesn’t produce and yet maintains the play we’ve seen over the past dozen or so games, then I’m happy. The points he scores now will be forgotten quickly. Now it’s about learning his skill set so he can be good down the road. It’s a marathon not a sprint.

 

[Kennerback]

Hard to send him down when he is better at 5 on 5 on both ends of the ice than 3/4's of the team...

He’s big and deceptively fast so what he lacks in technical skills here he can make up for. The only technical skill that’s seriously lacking is a good shot release. Is that really enough to send him down at this point just for that?

I don’t think offensive instinct can be learned much at 19. More than the AHL, he needs a shrink to work through his compulsive passing.

 

[Kennerback]

He doesn't show that top skating speed too often.I have watched for the most part 3/4 of his games .He always looks to be behind the play to me .Other players seem to a lot faster than he is.Either that or i drink too much or my vison has gone south.Just what i am seeing

He’s fast but a couple of things make him look slower than he really is. For example, his shot release. A slower player will skate from A to B and get his shot off faster than him.

Then, while skating with the puck Bedard is thinking net which thrusts him forward. Slaf is thinking pass which makes him stagnate looking side to side and takes a couple of clicks off his real straight line speed which is in fact quite faster than Bedard.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He’s big and deceptively fast so what he lacks in technical skills here he can make up for. The only technical skill that’s seriously lacking is a good shot release. Is that really enough to send him down at this point just for that?

I don’t think offensive instinct can be learned much at 19. More than the AHL, he needs a shrink to work through his compulsive passing.

‘Compulsive passing’ is a good way to put it.

Basu interviewEd him and CC and said they they’re both working on scoring plays together and that Slaf sees himself as a pass first player.

Nothing wrong with that but shooting more is going to make him and his linemates more effective. If opponents know you’re passing they’ll cover accordingly. Shooting would open up so many more lanes. Watching him make one too many passes too many times is painful. That must change.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Glad to see him picking up some comparatively "easy" points in recent games, as he had set up a lot of really nice plays in the prior 5-10 game stretch but didn't get the bounces on those ones. Nice to see him starting to engage more physically. Some of the big picture stuff in terms of the identity/value proposition of this player is really starting to click and it's exciting to follow.

There are definitely going to be slow stretches too as the 5P/7GP equates to a 58P pace and I don't think he's a "true" ~60P player yet on a consistent basis, but as someone who was pretty open to having him go to the AHL about 3-4 weeks ago, it's been extremely reassuring to see the progressive improvement once he got away from Anderson. It's reassuring in that it makes the slow stretch on that line with Newhook and Anderson feel like the aberration, as he looked solid in camp and was good the first couple of games on the line with Dach, but that awful 2nd line just wasn't working.

Nice to see him rebound after they broke that 2nd line up, especially because he's looking good playing with Dvorak who is just a generic basically competent NHL 3C, it's not like he's just being carried by a healthy Dach or something.

 

[Kennerback]

‘Compulsive passing’ is a good way to put it.

Basu interviewEd him and CC and said they they’re both working on scoring plays together and that Slaf sees himself as a pass first player.

Nothing wrong with that but shooting more is going to make him and his linemates more effective. If opponents know you’re passing they’ll cover accordingly. Shooting would open up so many more lanes. Watching him make one too many passes too many times is painful. That must change.

Caufield will score more picking up rebounds if Slaf doesn’t waste obvious shot opportunities. Just put the puck on net. Even Dvorak is great at picking up trash.

How many of Getzlaf’s ridiculous amount of assists was just him putting the puck on net?

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

He’s just like a locomotive. Takes him a few strides to get going but the top speed is fine.

Yeah for a 19 year old his size you can’t help but feel his skating will be an asset in his career

 

[ReHabs]

What I want to know is this.....what is the metric by which @Whitesnake @Mrb1p @ReHabs and others will measure Slaf being in the NHL a success. When will we know, in your mind that he belongs? Is it something like5 more points in his next 7.....10 more in his next 14....does he have to reach PPG pace? Is it simply your eye test? Outperform his draft class (he is already doing it)?

Give us something guys. What is the metric we can all use to measure Slaf and know he has made it?

I said it before the season began and I’ll repeat it for you: a 35pt/82gp sophomore season and improvements on the eye test is a successful season in my opinion. He started slow so it’s probably more fair to make the cutoff a 30pt/82gp season. I think he’ll make it.

Slafkovsky was very bad last year so it wouldn’t be fair to expect a 60pt season this year. I hope you don’t think I’m tossing shade, it just doesn’t seem smart to expect the moon from the guy who couldn’t achieve lift off last year.

This season he started badly but it could be primarily the consequence of the Josh Anderson effect. I wanted him to play major minutes and thrive. It wasn’t happening in the NHL so naturally I wanted him elsewhere — I think this is reasonable — that is, until MSL changed things up.

Otherwise, I watch the same match you guys watch: I see a young guy, a major part of our future, doing well and I’m happy. Do I think he will be a PPG player? No, not at this time. I think he still hasn’t shown elite talent but he has shown flashes of abilities. So that’s not a debate worth having right now — no one knows where he’ll end up. Slaf is playing well in the NHL and he’s picking up points, showing confidence to try things, etc. There is no reason to grind our teeth and argue about sending him down. We can relax.

I think the above is reasonable but the truth is my tune hasn’t changed. I saw a player under-prepared for the NHL and many others thought I was just speaking out of prospect hate or something. Far from it! I want our prospects to thrive. I want the Habs to have a good team.

Yeah for a 19 year old his size you can’t help but feel his skating will be an asset in his career

His skating has always been an asset for sure

 

[ReHabs]

Glad to see him picking up some comparatively "easy" points in recent games, as he had set up a lot of really nice plays in the prior 5-10 game stretch but didn't get the bounces on those ones. Nice to see him starting to engage more physically. Some of the big picture stuff in terms of the identity/value proposition of this player is really starting to click and it's exciting to follow.

There are definitely going to be slow stretches too as the 5P/7GP equates to a 58P pace and I don't think he's a "true" ~60P player yet on a consistent basis, but as someone who was pretty open to having him go to the AHL about 3-4 weeks ago, it's been extremely reassuring to see the progressive improvement once he got away from Anderson. It's reassuring in that it makes the slow stretch on that line with Newhook and Anderson feel like the aberration, as he looked solid in camp and was good the first couple of games on the line with Dach, but that awful 2nd line just wasn't working.

Nice to see him rebound after they broke that 2nd line up, especially because he's looking good playing with Dvorak who is just a generic basically competent NHL 3C, it's not like he's just being carried by a healthy Dach or something.

I have to highlight this comment. You’ve nailed it.

One thing: I don’t think his slow start was an aberration, I think it was a young player playing without confidence. When things started clicking for him, it got better. Fantastic developments so far. A long way to go but very good.

 

[Whitesnake]

So you agree he looks like an NHL player now, after just 61 NHL games, but claim that his progress would have been FASTER if he had spent part or most of that time in the AHL????

I'm confused.

People have a hard time to read. I said...he looks BETTER. Better than CLEARLY AHL material is not necessarily a full time NHL'er. And I did say also that it's not about FASTER.....but it's about having a better basis to build on.

 

[Whitesnake]

So again, why do you believe he is stagnating (opposite of improving every game) and what concerns you about how he is handling himself?

If you read the whole thread, my points were not made in the last 7 games. It was made before. When he looked like a lost deer on the highway. Where his shots couldn,t get through. Where he had no idea how to positoin himself in all 3 zones. That DID happen.

Same people who blames me and others from using hindisight in drafts are using hindsight RIGHT NOW with Slaf.

My comments from THEN, were about what we were seeing THEN. What happens NOW is not related.

If so, should we go back at people talking about Kotkaniemi how he was a bust and using what was said THEN as if it would have been said NOW?

Right now, For Slaf, it's still a question of the decisions he takes to shoot. Or actually to not shoot. Always looking at Caufield. Still not being able to find shooting lanes. And not always looking at his best defensively.

As of NOW...yeah...keep Slaf in the NHL. Ship has sailed. BUT I will always think it would have been better THEN to send him to the AHL.

 

[Whitesnake]

I will now speak for myself...

I don't think it proves he didn't need an AHL stint...

I just think it proves his NHL "stint" was beneficial even if it wasn't obvious to everyone.

Fine with me. At one point, a kid do need to play in the NHL. And playing and being well surrounded will indeed help him to reach other steps. Never said the contrary. Kids reaches different steps EVERY year in the NHL. See Jack Hughes, Tage Thompson and whoever else. Most of the talented ones do. The ones that don't, it could mean that they were never that good to begin with. But then, you hope that Slaf who I guess would have been a top 5 pick for every single team....is a talented one who won't miss.

Exactly, so you’re projecting.

I'm not only talking about how he handles journalists. I think it’s blatantly obvious how much his confidence is growing on the ice and how there’s a night and day difference between his first 30 NHL games and the 30 proceeding games. If you’re impatient after 60 games, maybe reevaluate the way you follow prospects.

Aren't we all projecting? Also, stop using me as a way to predict how a prospect should be handled. Just watch how every single team handles prospects 99.9% of the time by keeping them in lower leagues until they are ready.

In what world is wanting to see a kid take it slowly in the AHL = claiming a kid is a bust after 60 games? Please tell me. How is me wanting for a team to slowly graduate a kid means that I'm impatient? Since when being careful means shitting on a prospect?

 

[Whitesnake]

Why didn't anyone suggest that for Caufield? He was eligible as far as I know, he hasn't played more than the required 160 games for him to have to be waived to go down to the AHL.

It's also funny that you finally agreeing with me that NHL players CAN development in the NHL...when a few weeks ago, and in years past, whenever I said so you were one of the many who vehemently argued against that very idea.

Now you've decided to move the goal posts to me implying you can't develop in lower levels?

I'm sorry, but I've never argued this lol


See above example with Cole Caufield.

Says you but there's no evidence of that.

Maybe if he was in the AHL during this time, he'd have been scoring and ignoring the parts of his game that we're seeing with our eyes right now which are getting better and better. Maybe he's scoring in the AHL and not focusing on his board play, which was a clear area of focus.

Here you go for Caufield. Tell me I'm not consequent....

Marc Bergevin Press Conference 1 PM

Caufield was sent back to the NCAA for an additional year after being drafted though. 2 more years actually…they sent him back not because he wasn’t ready, he could have easily played last year, but because they (coaching staff) weren’t ready for him. There was no point having him in Montreal...

forums.hfboards.com

As far as FINALLY agreeing with you....no idea what you mean....I was, am and will always be an advocate of if you are not an exceptional, you should spend time in lower leagues to slowly graduate. YET, that in no way means that you don't finish your development in the NHL. Based on quite a few players who looked average when they reached the NHL till they developed into great players later on by playing in the NHL. Thinking I don't think that is thinking that I actually don't follow hockey.

As far as your point about the AHL....the way you phrase it seems to mean that there,s actually no development to do there. That during his AHL time, Slaf would actually ignore the part of the game that he needs to improve, all this with the coaching staff in the AHL in hand that knows that their mission is to groom those kids into what we want to see in the NHL. Are you actually suggesting that Josh Roy should be here 'cause we never know...he actually might not work on stuff he should to become a NHL'er?

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Yesterday when he went in the tunnel after the extended shift of domination im convinced he just forgot his secret breathing technique , a few huff and puffs of breathing 2.0 and kid was back on the ice no problem

 

[417]

Here you go for Caufield. Tell me I'm not consequent....

Marc Bergevin Press Conference 1 PM

Caufield was sent back to the NCAA for an additional year after being drafted though. 2 more years actually…they sent him back not because he wasn’t ready, he could have easily played last year, but because they (coaching staff) weren’t ready for him. There was no point having him in Montreal...

forums.hfboards.com

I was talking about when Caufield was struggling a couple of weeks ago - of course I didn't know at the time of the post that although he's played less than the 160 games required to have to go through waivers (he's played 145 regular season games), it's regular season and playoff games combined.

Which really doesn't change the argument I was making regardless really.

As far as FINALLY agreeing with you....no idea what you mean....I was, am and will always be an advocate of if you are not an exceptional, you should spend time in lower leagues to slowly graduate. YET, that in no way means that you don't finish your development in the NHL. Based on quite a few players who looked average when they reached the NHL till they developed into great players later on by playing in the NHL. Thinking I don't think that is thinking that I actually don't follow hockey.

But plenty of players who aren't exception spend little or no time in the AHL and turn out just fine. We have examples of those on our very own team.

You and I have often gotten into debates about how "The NHL is not a developmental league"...I argued that that's a false statement, you argued it's true.

But here you are essentially saying the very thing I've argued.

As far as your point about the AHL....the way you phrase it seems to mean that there,s actually no development to do there. That during his AHL time, Slaf would actually ignore the part of the game that he needs to improve, all this with the coaching staff in the AHL in hand that knows that their mission is to groom those kids into what we want to see in the NHL.

I've never phrased it this way or even implied it. I've said repeatedly that I think development happens at ALL levels and you don't necessarily need a "master's degree" in each previous and subsequent levels, to be able to succeed in the NHL (again, see examples of players on our own team as evidence).

However, I do think that it's a valid argument to ask whether or not the very things we're seeing Slaf improve on right now, if they would have been as much of a focus in the AHL where he could just get by with producing points and everyone would be satisfied with his development.

A good example is Filip Mesar...everyone is over the moon with his production right now and don't get me wrong, its great he's producing.

But how much is he really improving/developing the parts in his game that he's not being challenged on right now in the OHL, that he will be challenged on when he turns pro in the AHL and eventually the NHL?

All I see in Mesar highlights is him dancing through opposing defenses and basically doing what he wants because he's afforded the time and space at that level.

But that's not replicable in the AHL and even much less in the NHL.

Are you actually suggesting that Josh Roy should be here 'cause we never know...he actually might not work on stuff he should to become a NHL'er?

Not at all, Joshua Roy is where he should be right now.

 

[417]

Fine with me. At one point, a kid do need to play in the NHL. And playing and being well surrounded will indeed help him to reach other steps. Never said the contrary. Kids reaches different steps EVERY year in the NHL. See Jack Hughes, Tage Thompson and whoever else. Most of the talented ones do. The ones that don't, it could mean that they were never that good to begin with. But then, you hope that Slaf who I guess would have been a top 5 pick for every single team....is a talented one who won't miss.

No, but you and many others have argued that players need to master each previous level before reaching the NHL, because again, "cough cough", the "NHL is not a developmental league."

That is and has always been 100% false.

 

[417]

Right now, For Slaf, it's still a question of the decisions he takes to shoot. Or actually to not shoot. Always looking at Caufield. Still not being able to find shooting lanes. And not always looking at his best defensively.

Well the follow up question to that is to ask if all of this means that finding shooting lanes in a league where doing so is easier (like in the AHL for example).

Does it really help with accomplishing that same task IN the NHL?

I'm not 100% sure of that.

There are just some things that lower leagues can't replicate.

The schedule, the travel, the playing vs grown ass men...yes.

The skill of opponents, the practice habits, the pace, goaltending, etc...not IMO.

As of NOW...yeah...keep Slaf in the NHL. Ship has sailed. BUT I will always think it would have been better THEN to send him to the AHL.

There's really no way to know if he would be a better player TODAY had be been sent to the AHL THEN and anyone suggesting otherwise is just throwing shit at the wall.

But I think it's hard to argue that the experiences and lessons he's learned the last 60 games IN the NHL, are far more valuable than anything he could have experienced or learned IN the AHL. To believe otherwise is to basically believe that the AHL is a better league than the NHL...and that just doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

 

[le_sean]

Aren't we all projecting? Also, stop using me as a way to predict how a prospect should be handled. Just watch how every single team handles prospects 99.9% of the time by keeping them in lower leagues until they are ready.

In what world is wanting to see a kid take it slowly in the AHL = claiming a kid is a bust after 60 games? Please tell me. How is me wanting for a team to slowly graduate a kid means that I'm impatient? Since when being careful means shitting on a prospect?

So if you don’t think he’s on a downward trend, why are you posting so often about him needing to be sent to the AHL? You’re so adamant but you don’t think he’s busting? How does that make sense?

 

[SlafySZN]

This duo, though

 

[eklund the clown]

He’s just like a locomotive. Takes him a few strides to get going but the top speed is fine.

Maybe thats it. By the time he gets going it leaves him behind.

 

[le_sean]

Maybe thats it. By the time he gets going it leaves him behind.

He hasn’t been behind the play at all, but okay.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

This duo, though

View attachment 775624

That shift they had last night along with Guehle was a beautiful thing to watch. It looked like we were on the PP.