Juraj Slafkovsky - Year Two

[The Great Weal]

Byfield exploded so far this season, hopefully Slaf can do the same by next season.

 

[Lshap]

Slaf is so crazy

Unfair to call him crazy yet. He's just 19. I noticed last week he slammed his fist in frustration – that's a sign he's making progress. With our fanbase commenting on his every shift, I'm confident the kid can reach his full-tilt crazy potential in a season or two.

 

[DAChampion]

I have a serious question for Habs fans...

Let's say it takes 200 NHL games, so about another 2 NHL seasons roughly, before Slafkovsky starts to look and produce like the player the Habs drafted 1st overall.

Will it have mattered that he didn't go to the AHL for those 200 games and instead spent them plying his trade and improving himself physically and mentally for the player he eventually became, IN the NHL?

And i'm not even talking generational 1st overall...just say top line PF, who is impossible to get off the puck, can score 25-30+ goals and opens up a ton of space for his linemates, essentially the perfect foil to Suzuki/Caufield.

Just curious with this "pie in the sky" hypothetical, would people be happy with that?

Or will the idea be that if he was sent to the AHL, he'd be so much better than just that?

No, if Slafkovsky reaches his ceiling around D+4, then everything is all good and those of us who disagreed should take it as a learning opportunity.

 

[Whitesnake]

I have a serious question for Habs fans...

Let's say it takes 200 NHL games, so about another 2 NHL seasons roughly, before Slafkovsky starts to look and produce like the player the Habs drafted 1st overall.

Will it have mattered that he didn't go to the AHL for those 200 games and instead spent them plying his trade and improving himself physically and mentally for the player he eventually became, IN the NHL?

And i'm not even talking generational 1st overall...just say top line PF, who is impossible to get off the puck, can score 25-30+ goals and opens up a ton of space for his linemates, essentially the perfect foil to Suzuki/Caufield.

Just curious with this "pie in the sky" hypothetical, would people be happy with that?

Or will the idea be that if he was sent to the AHL, he'd be so much better than just that?

No. It wouldn't matter. 'Cause the end result is only what is important.

But we are today. With our post traumatic symptoms of what happens with top end prospects of the past. Even though we know each player is different. We also know that there are no counterproductive effects to go in the AHL to achieve the same results.

Just like we think it was better for Mesar to go in Juniors. Or for an American born player to stay one more year in College.

 

[417]

No, if Slafkovsky reaches his ceiling around D+4, then everything is all good and those of us who disagreed should take it as a learning opportunity.

Fair…but I think MOST players start to realize the potential of the player they're to become around their D+3 or D+4.

I think this is normal for most players, that's right around the 200-250 game Mark.

Just for example Brady Tkachuk had his first really breakout season in his D+4. Yes I understand that he shown more leading up to that, but not all players take the same route to get to their destination.

So that's why I do understand the concern, I share it, but it's the sheer pandemonium which I don't get.

 

[DAChampion]

Fair…but I think MOST players start to realize the potential of the player they're to become around their D+3 or D+4.

I think this is normal for most players, that's right around the 200-250 game Mark.

Just for example Brady Tkachuk had his first really breakout season in his D+4. Yes I understand that he shown more leading up to that, but not all players take the same route to get to their destination.

So that's why I do understand the concern, I share it, but it's the sheer pandemonium which I don't get.

We're seeing that with Lafreniere. People thought he was garbage. A lot of people gave reasons, they said his fundamentals were bad, he was never a good player in the first place, etc. And now he's breaking out. Same with Kotkaniemi.

 

[Whitesnake]

No, if Slafkovsky reaches his ceiling around D+4, then everything is all good and those of us who disagreed should take it as a learning opportunity.

I don't agree with that take. Why? Because let say he doesn't reach his ceiling.....do we have the right to say that he didn't BECAUSE he didn't play in the AHL? Or we are going to be told that there's nothing to assures us that he would have, that he might have finally not be a good prospect after all?

I know that my take is that it would be better and safer. Does that mean that nothing could happen in the NHL? Nope. It happened to a few players that didn't need the AHL. Stuff like that can happen.

But people who should learn are the ones calling bust after 2 years. That's for sure.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

That's the neat thing, if you never give a concrete number you never have to admit that something's going wrong. You can just say some nonsense like ''there are so many more variables you're not considering, development's not linear.''

I feel like we wasted last year. Shouldn’t have been in the league. This year they wasted a bunch of games with the wrong linemates. The past few games we’ve seen pretty good improvement, he looks much better now than before. And I disagree with you on the Boston game. He made several good plays and set up CC for a beauty one timer. But… he also rushed plays. Had CC wide open and instead of taking a bit more time he basically threw the puck away. So yes, a bit of a mixed bag but he had some great plays and I didn't see it as a bad game.

The most important thing is to see real improvement. I think he’s been a lot better the past few games and could easily have some points under him. I don’t see the point in sending him back now that he’s playing better. Keep him up, give him ten games and evaluate from there.

 

[morhilane]

I don't recall the other Dmen on this team getting rocked as much as Guhle.

That's because Harris get hit away from the cameras so we don't see it. He was the most hit on the team last year by a large margin (Dach was second) despite only playing 65 games. He's 3rd this season so far, Guhle is 6th. Suzuki his 1st... Slaf is second so far if anyone is wondering.

Byfield exploded so far this season, hopefully Slaf can do the same by next season.

As does Lafreniere from the looks of it, both are starting their D+4 too.

 

[417]

No. It wouldn't matter. 'Cause the end result is only what is important.

So why we so focused on the present?

Understanding that the present can't be ignored all together, I'm very cognizant of that.

But we are today. With our post traumatic symptoms of what happens with top end prospects of the past. Even though we know each player is different. We also know that there are no counterproductive effects to go in the AHL to achieve the same results.

So like I've said countless times, it's about our own insecurities.

What's that got to do with the player? That's like assuming every guy/girl is a cheater just because you got cheated on once and you're never able to have relationships because of it.

Just like we think it was better for Mesar to go in Juniors. Or for an American born player to stay one more year in College.

It remains to be seen what Mesar ultimately gets from having gone back, I personally think he’s going to be in the exact same position next year, as he was this year.

It's just we’ll all “feel” better about him as a prospect because he put up points.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

I like that he is developing more of a north-south game. The player I compare him to in my mind in terms of playstyle is Alex Ponikarovsky. It will be exciting to watch Slaf develop over the next few years!!

 

[Skip Bayless]

I like that he is developing more of a north-south game. The player I compare him to in my mind in terms of playstyle is Alex Ponikarovsky. It will be exciting to watch Slaf develop over the next few years!!

 

[Hacketts]

He's definitely been better since moving up. But you're still going to see those rookie mistakes. He's still going to rush plays and so forth. It's not going to be a linear improvement and he's going to have off games. What's important is that he continues to improve.

If he doesn't, then he should be moved to the AHL

No doubt about the mistakes, he's still the probably the rawest player in the NHL. If MSL wasn't the coach I highly doubt he would be here.

 

[Lshap]

I have a serious question for Habs fans...

Let's say it takes 200 NHL games, so about another 2 NHL seasons roughly, before Slafkovsky starts to look and produce like the player the Habs drafted 1st overall.

Will it have mattered that he didn't go to the AHL for those 200 games and instead spent them plying his trade and improving himself physically and mentally for the player he eventually became, IN the NHL?

And i'm not even talking generational 1st overall...just say top line PF, who is impossible to get off the puck, can score 25-30+ goals and opens up a ton of space for his linemates, essentially the perfect foil to Suzuki/Caufield.

Just curious with this "pie in the sky" hypothetical, would people be happy with that?

Or will the idea be that if he was sent to the AHL, he'd be so much better than just that?

I'm not invested in where he develops, only how far he develops. For me, the difference between the NHL and AHL isn't development, it's pace. Obviously, the NHL demands a faster pace and reaction time from players than the AHL. So the question becomes which pace is more likely to allow Slafkovsky to progress.

I've stated I think he'd benefit from the slightly slower pace of the AHL. It looks like his reactions and mechanics aren't operating at NHL speed yet. Some people need a slower environment in which to learn. Being forced to keep up doesn't work with everyone; some people need to master each level before moving on. If that's how Slaf learns, the AHL would help. Obviously the Habs' staff thinks otherwise, which is why he's still working out the kinks in the NHL.

I hope their decision is based on professional expertise. Unfortunately, we've seen too many examples of professional coaches and GMs making the absolute wrong decision with player development. For better or worse, Slafkovsky will become what he becomes in the NHL, because that's where the org insists he stays. Would he develop further or faster with a stint in the AHL? We'll probably never know.

 

[Lshap]

it's the sheer pandemonium which I don't get.

Funny - the only thing about the Slafkovsky story I DO understand is this board's sheer pandemonium.

 

[OldCraig71]

He is similar to KK when it comes to his balance and awkwardness on the ice but once he figures it out and becomes physically mature he will be a very good player, he just needs time. When he has the confidence to throw a hit to make a play, and finds the courage to force his way to the front of the net, he will become the player he was drafted to be. Some players need to reach the 200-300 game mark before figuring it out, many NHL players and coaches have said this.

 

[Miller Time]

He's right where he needs to be...

Looking forward to seeing how he progresses in the second 1/4 of the season. I bet he has a really good Q2 and Q3, before slowing down in Q4 (injuries excluded of course).

He's clearly getting more and more comfortable incorporating the adjustments the team has been working on with him and moving towards playing intuitively as the changes start to become more ingrained/automatic.

Future is Bright

 

[417]

We're seeing that with Lafreniere. People thought he was garbage. A lot of people gave reasons, they said his fundamentals were bad, he was never a good player in the first place, etc. And now he's breaking out. Same with Kotkaniemi.

Correct...now you're kind of reaching where I'm going with this.

To suggest that the experience that Lafrenière or Kotkaniemi, went through early, haven't contributed to what we’re seeing now is difficult for me to understand.

It takes time…whether in the AHL or NHL, why does it matter?

The NHL is hard, not having immediate success is not, on its own, a reason to suggest the player is failing at his development.

That's because Harris get hit away from the cameras so we don't see it. He was the most hit on the team last year by a large margin (Dach was second) despite only playing 65 games. He's 3rd this season so far, Guhle is 6th. Suzuki his 1st... Slaf is second so far if anyone is wondering.

I'm not talking about getting hit, i'm talking about getting rocked.

But fair enough

 

[NORiculous]

Byfield exploded so far this season, hopefully Slaf can do the same by next season.

Byfield had some good development time in the AHL the last 3 years. That has helped him.

 

[The Great Weal]

Byfield had some good development time in the AHL the last 3 years. That has helped him.

It definitely did, but it was kind of sporadic. I would still send Slaf to Laval but people were calling Byfield a mega bust not too long ago.

 

[SlafySZN]

He is similar to KK when it comes to his balance and awkwardness on the ice but once he figures it out and becomes physically mature he will be a very good player, he just needs time. When he has the confidence to throw a hit to make a play, and finds the courage to force his way to the front of the net, he will become the player he was drafted to be. Some players need to reach the 200-300 game mark before figuring it out, many NHL players and coaches have said this.

Similar to Dach.

Dach started doing those things more regularly last year, at 21-22.

 

[417]

I'm not invested in where he develops, only how far he develops. For me, the difference between the NHL and AHL isn't development, it's pace. Obviously, the NHL demands a faster pace and reaction time from players than the AHL. So the question becomes which pace is more likely to allow Slafkovsky to progress.

Preach!

I've stated I think he'd benefit from the slightly slower pace of the AHL. It looks like his reactions and mechanics aren't operating at NHL speed yet. Some people need a slower environment in which to learn. Being forced to keep up doesn't work with everyone; some people need to master each level before moving on. If that's how Slaf learns, the AHL would help. Obviously the Habs' staff thinks otherwise, which is why he's still working out the kinks in the NHL.

This is the part that I go back and forth on...

I'm not sure that you speed up your own pace, by playing at a slower pace. As I said before, when you struggle with that particular aspect of the game, playing at a slower pace can allow bad habits to creep in that just aren't effective when you are at a faster pace.

Like imagine right now, being told that you need to pick up your pace...then suddenly your thrust into the AHL where the pace is slower and that NHL adjustment isn't required anymore.

What happens when you're removed from that slower pace environment and put back in the faster pace?

I'm not arguing for or against any particular avenue here, just really trying to foster the discussion around it. I'm always willing to hear and take in different points of view on things.

I just have a feeling that if Slafkovsky played the EXACT SAME WAY, he currently is playing, but in the AHL and was putting up points, everyone would be thrilled with his development.

And for me, that's problematic.

I hope their decision is based on professional expertise. Unfortunately, we've seen too many examples of professional coaches and GMs making the absolute wrong decision with player development. For better or worse, Slafkovsky will become what he becomes in the NHL, because that's where the org insists he stays. Would he develop further or faster with a stint in the AHL? We'll probably never know.

For me, it's difficult to pinpoint where development went wrong with a particular player. People love to make correlations, but i'm not always 100% sure that the causation portion of that equation is always correct.

I.e. The Habs rushed Alex Galchenyuk...I don't think that was the problem there.

 

[OldCraig71]

Similar to Dach.

Dach started doing those things more regularly last year, at 21-22.

I didn't watch Dach before he came to Montreal outside of the World Juniors where he got injured early in the tournament but I get what you are saying.

 

[417]

Byfield had some good development time in the AHL the last 3 years. That has helped him.

Byfield played a total of 59 AHL games spread out over 3 years.

2020-21 - 32 games
2021-22 - 11 games
2022-23 - 16 games

That's really not a lot of time, and that includes 7 demotions to the AHL...are we really advocating for that type of back and forth for our players?

IMO, I think the 100 NHL games (32pts) he played prior to this season + the 8 playoff games he got into, are far more influential to his start this season, then those 59 AHL games over 3 years.

 

[waffledave]

Frankly, I wouldn't think that way just yet. I see stuff that paired with confidence could have him become the player we hope he'll be. His main problem, like some kids, is to take faster decisions. He takes way too much time. And when he doesn't, his shot isn't precise. Once that compass is fixed....why couldn't he take the Tuch/Thompson type of development? Players that did see some AHL time though....

The problem is his slow decision making has always been a problem. It's not like he suddenly started struggling in this capacity because he isn't used to NHL speed. These were weaknesses that were called out before he was drafted.