Value of: JT Miller to the Leafs.

[Qwijibo]

Him being older and less term doesn’t offset his improvement. Consider this. Blake Coleman at the same age, 1.8M with 1 year and some odd games returned a 1st and Nolan Foote.

that’s a 1st and 2nd round pick value. The 1st was the Canucks first too and they were on pace to miss the playoffs at the time.

Canucks are sending miller at 600k more but also taking on 2.5M as a filler salary, NJ took back 0 salary. Miller is also twice the player Coleman is

I’m talking in a vacuum. Miller at 26 with 5 years left on a team friendly contract is worth more than Miller at 29 with a year and a half left until UFA. That factors in. Just like other things like hiscimproved play, potential retention, and taking cap dumps back factor in. It’s not as simple as saying he’s better now so he’s worth more than Vancouver gave up to get him

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

I’m talking in a vacuum. Miller at 26 with 5 years left on a team friendly contract is worth more than Miller at 29 with a year and a half left until UFA. That factors in. Just like other things like hiscimproved play, potential retention, and taking cap dumps back factor in. It’s not as simple as saying he’s better now so he’s worth more than Vancouver gave up to get him

If we are talking about a vacuum, 26 year old Miller playing 3rd line an about .5 ppg is worth less than a 29 year old Miller putting up ppg from the 1st line, also producing away from EP and BB. If it was next season at TDL with no term less, we would still get more than we paid.

 

[Qwijibo]

If we are talking about a vacuum, 26 year old Miller playing 3rd line an about .5 ppg is worth less than a 29 year old Miller putting up ppg from the 1st line, also producing away from EP and BB. If it was next season at TDL with no term less, we would still get more than we paid.

All I’m saying is you have to factor in EVERYTHING. There are things that have increased his value and there are things that work in the opposite direction. I don’t think this is an absurd notion

 

[Canuck Luck]

I’m talking in a vacuum. Miller at 26 with 5 years left on a team friendly contract is worth more than Miller at 29 with a year and a half left until UFA. That factors in. Just like other things like hiscimproved play, potential retention, and taking cap dumps back factor in. It’s not as simple as saying he’s better now so he’s worth more than Vancouver gave up to get him

well obviously it all factors in. Dont you think if that wasnt factored in the ask for Miller at 50% would be even higher?
Player A makes 5.25M 5 more years and is a 50point immature 25 year old
Player B makes 2.625M for 2 years and is a 75 point vocal leader 28 year old

All else considered, they are equal. Who would cost more in a trade? Obviously player B. Player A is Miller when we got him, player B would be Miller today. So why would we take the same price or less for him?

To further demonstrate recent example as to why he's worth around what i've said. Blake Coleman is the most recent trade that would match Miller's 50% value. Same age, half a season less left on contract, 1.8M vs 2.625M. He returned a 1st projected to be a 10-20 overall pick + a recent 1st rounder whom was not even 1 year removed from the draft. So i actually lowballed the original value of Foote.

Coleman returned 2 1sts 0 cap coming back
Miller should return more than 2 1sts given that he costs 625k more BUT Ritchie has 0 value and this trade would cost the Leafs only 125k in cap space per year vs 1.8M it cost the Lightning

2 late 1sts and a late 2nd is minimum value Miller at 50% should be returning

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Don't trade for the lockerroom divider
He could be the cancer.

Boeser would be better on the LW.

I don't believe he's a cancer, I believe he's sick of being on a team with no clue and who could blame him? there is ZERO direction in Vancouver.

 

[Cecithepylon]

We got miler for a 1st and a 3rd. Price would be higher than that for him as his value went up a lot more since we got him. So probably something like a 1st + 2nd + 3rd going strictly pick wise.

If we retain 50% would you do 2022 1st + 2022 2nd + 2023 1st?

I’m a leafs fan and I would do that.

 

[Cecithepylon]

coleman got a 1st+foote who was a recent first rounder. miller is much better than coleman. not hard to extrapolate to see what he would fetch. Not to mention top rentals get 1st+ at the deadline every year. If the leafs want him for a whole extra year going to have to actually give something of value in addition to a 1st.

It's ok if leaf fans don't want to give that much but acting like anything less is fair is quite stupid.

I would gladly give 2 firsts and lily for him if not more If van retained

 

[Canuck Luck]

I would gladly give 2 firsts and lily for him if not more If van retained

one of 3 Leafs fans whom seem like they can recognize what it costs to get elite players. I applaud you haha. As a Canucks fan the 2 1sts + 2nd is the bare minimum I'd expect. I'd hold out for something like this. 2 1sts plus a top RHD prospect. If you'd give more I'd say sure hahaha but thats when the deal I'd say starts favouring the Canucks. Curious what you would be willing to pay though on top of Lily + 2 1sts

 

[crazyforhockey]

that’s why there’s a 2nd proposal where the Canucks hold 50%. If you want a ppg player it’s going to be costly especially when he’s at 2.65M for this and next season. Fair if you don’t have draft capital but then y’all gotta set your sights lower than Miller.



even with 50% retained? We could take back ritchie I guess. Who were you thinking?

May fit him at deadline, but that doesnt help for next year, wouldn't be able to sign Campbell then, or some of your rfa dmen

 

[Canuck Luck]

May fit him at deadline, but that doesnt help for next year, wouldn't be able to sign Campbell then, or some of your rfa dmen

Miller isn't the issue at that point. the difference between Miller and Ritchie for next season in that offer is 125k. 125k wont be the difference between re-signing Campbell or him walking

 

[Cecithepylon]

one of 3 Leafs fans whom seem like they can recognize what it costs to get elite players. I applaud you haha. As a Canucks fan the 2 1sts + 2nd is the bare minimum I'd expect. I'd hold out for something like this. 2 1sts plus a top RHD prospect. If you'd give more I'd say sure hahaha but thats when the deal I'd say starts favouring the Canucks. Curious what you would be willing to pay though on top of Lily + 2 1sts

That’s where it gets tricky like I feel like paying much more would piss people off. But jt miller is an amazing player. If he was retained for 2 years I’d go as far as to say maybe another a prospect like amirov. Honestly It’s all about winning the cup.
Nylander-Matthews-Marner
Jtmiller-Tavares-Kase would be very up there in the best top 6s in the league

 

[123offtheglass]

I don't know about his personality but on the ice he's what the Leafs need.

Salary would have to go back the other way & the price would be high... obviously less than what Eichel returned but more than both what Stone returned a couple years ago (Ottawa obviously got fleeced there) & Reinhart more recently.

 

[inthe6ix]

We got miler for a 1st and a 3rd. Price would be higher than that for him as his value went up a lot more since we got him. So probably something like a 1st + 2nd + 3rd going strictly pick wise.

If we retain 50% would you do 2022 1st + 2022 2nd + 2023 1st?

I’m a leafs fan and I would do that.

I would not.

 

[Grumpy1]

No way the nucks are retaining salary to get protected draft pics and nick ritchie

 

[Ciao]

Leafs seem to have a good dressing room from the outside looking in. Not sure you want to add JT Miller to that.

Yeah, it looks like subtraction by addition to me

Vancouver is struggling. Someone in that room is an asshole. I dont need to know who it is -- I just need to know who it isn't

Until we know that, I'm not the least bit interested in importing the Vancouver Virus into a well-function Toronto Maple Leafs team.

 

[Ciao]

Last player I would want.

Maybe the second-last, or third-last after Evander Kane and Matt Murray.

 

[bossram]

I would gladly give 2 firsts and lily for him if not more If van retained

I'd consider that a very fair deal for Miller at max retention.

 

[leafsfan5]

I would gladly give 2 firsts and lily for him if not more If van retained

Absolutely not

Liljergen isn't moving. He's going to be a top 4 rhd for years to come

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Absolutely not

Liljergen isn't moving. He's going to be a top 4 rhd for years to come

You’d be crazy not to move him for JT Miller. He’s not that good.

 

[M2Beezy]

If Benning is allowed to make the trade, would something like this work:

To Toronto: Miller, 2023 2nd round pick

To Vancity: Liljegren, Kerfoot, 2023 5th round pick

 

[leafsfan5]

You’d be crazy not to move him for JT Miller. He’s not that good.

Not with 2 firsts alongside of him. We'd much rather go for a second tier trade piece.

And he is very good, he has the tools you want from a modern defenseman and hasn't looked out of place on a top defensive team.

 

[elitepete]

You don't know anything about these players, clearly.

Ok, tell me where I'm wrong about Liljegren the beast.

 

[elitepete]

Liljegren is doing just fine

we’re Ok

That's fine. We don't want him.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

Lijegren and Sandin despite not being fast are quite dynamic and very solid young players. There gap control, stick work and overall skating ability are impressive. They are also fearless they don't shy away from contact and are willing to throw the body despite there smaller stature. And don't worry the points will come for those stat warchers out there.

 

[elitepete]

Liljegren is a bottom pairing defensman in the same regard as podkolzin is a 4th line grinder.

don’t confuse lack of NHL experience as lack of talent. Liljegren is probably already a better player than Tyler Myers, Luke Schenn, tucker poolman, and any other scrub on the Canucks back end not named Hughes and OEL

That's a bad comparison because Pod hasn't been on the Canucks 4th line since they realized how good he is. He's been on the 2nd/3rd lines. Liljegren is on the Leafs bottom pairing, and it's not like he has a bunch of studs infront of him that make it harder to move up.

Liljegren being better than those bums doesn't mean anything. I remember when you guys called Holl and Dermott top 4 defenseman.