Value of: JT Miller to the Leafs.

[kanucks25]

Certainly not. He's a mid-tier 2nd line C, with solid 2-way play, but lacks the "edge" and faceoff skill that shutdown Cs need.

That being said, with Bo Horvat in the mix, there's certainly an argument to be made that a shutdown C isn't necessarily what the Canucks need. Similar to Boston, who uses Bergeron as both the #1C and shutdown C, or St. Louis who use ROR and Schenn; that may be the best path/fit for Horvat.

Horvat is not very good defensively. He's okay, better suited an in offensive role.

That's our problem, and that's why we need that traditional heavy, defense-first, strong on faceoffs and PK match-up center.

 

[Stephen]

We all knew the deal with Miller. He likes to win, and wants to win, and as late as the end of last season, he was showing leadership I didn't expect of him. Now we have a locker room full of under performers, an organization that can't find it's ******* with both hands, a map and a flashlight, and he's a cancer? Any thing to try to think your team gets a steal of a deal, I guess.

From a distance, JT Miller comes across as a classic "passionate" player who can run extremes when it comes to emotional output. Looks like raw raw leadership when things are firing on all cylinders, and when things aren't going well, it's all eye rolls and bad body language. Obviously not a lot of us know what it's like to share a bench or locker room with him but seems like the kind of character Toronto would benefit from having.

 

[Cogburn]

From a distance, JT Miller comes across as a classic "passionate" player who can run extremes when it comes to emotional output. Looks like raw raw leadership when things are firing on all cylinders, and when things aren't going well, it's all eye rolls and bad body language. Obviously not a lot of us know what it's like to share a bench or locker room with him but seems like the kind of character Toronto would benefit from having.

I'd rather fire every coach, manager and find a way to take the team from the owner rather then sell him off. I want to see what he can do with a competently assembled team. It's unfortunate that he will be moved and it will help with the mass firings, rather then trying things the way everyone and their dog know it should be done.

 

[Stephen]

I'd rather fire every coach, manager and find a way to take the team from the owner rather then sell him off. I want to see what he can do with a competently assembled team. It's unfortunate that he will be moved and it will help with the mass firings, rather then trying things the way everyone and their dog know it should be done.

I get what you're saying but it probably wouldn't make sense for a Canucks rebuild to center around a 28 year old Miller.

 

[bossram]

Awful. Need quality not a bunch of quantity junk.

It's basically Amirov + 1st for Miller as the base, with various pieces rotating around to make the cap work. It's not terrible. I'd still want one more valuable piece for VAN.

Liljegren or Niemela.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

It's basically Amirov + 1st for Miller as the base, with various pieces rotating around to make the cap work. It's not terrible. I'd still want one more valuable piece for VAN.

Liljegren or Niemela.

personally it would have to be Niemela. Lilj is becoming a valuable part of the D core and I have zero interest is subtracting.
Also franchise wise we can't get rid of 3 out of 4 of our most valuable trade chips. Basically we have the 2022 1st, Amirov, Robertson, Niemela and in that deal that would include 3 of those assets, and thats just tooo risky.
I fig a 1st+2nd+1 of Amirov/Niemela/Robertson+Ritche should get the deal done.
say the 1st+Niemela+Ritche covers Miller and the 2nd covers retention

 

[bossram]

personally it would have to be Niemela. Lilj is becoming a valuable part of the D core and I have zero interest is subtracting.
Also franchise wise we can't get rid of 3 out of 4 of our most valuable trade chips. Basically we have the 2022 1st, Amirov, Robertson, Niemela and in that deal that would include 3 of those assets, and thats just tooo risky.
I fig a 1st+2nd+1 of Amirov/Niemela/Robertson+Ritche should get the deal done.
say the 1st+Niemela+Ritche covers Miller and the 2nd covers retention

I get that the Leafs wouldn't want to trade all of their most valuable futures, but that's not really Vancouver's problem.

If the Canucks are trading a point-per-game, 1st line power winger (who can also play center) at $2.65M, they absolutely need to land a massive return back. Two good pieces won't cut it.

Adding Ritchie and saying that adds value is comical. He's dead weight. A pure cap dump the Canucks can accommodate for cap reasons. He doesn't have any hockey value. 1st + Amirov + Niemela is very fair for Miller at 50%. If there needs to be a cap dump coming back to Vancouver, then that's fine.

 

[Deadly Dogma]

I get that the Leafs wouldn't want to trade all of their most valuable futures, but that's not really Vancouver's problem.

If the Canucks are trading a point-per-game, 1st line power winger (who can also play center) at $2.65M, they absolutely need to land a massive return back. Two good pieces won't cut it.

Adding Ritchie and saying that adds value is comical. He's dead weight. A pure cap dump the Canucks can accommodate for cap reasons. He doesn't have any hockey value. 1st + Amirov + Niemela is very fair for Miller at 50%. If there needs to be a cap dump coming back to Vancouver, then that's fine.

can we swap Amirov for 2 2nd's?

 

[Deadly Dogma]

I get that the Leafs wouldn't want to trade all of their most valuable futures, but that's not really Vancouver's problem.

If the Canucks are trading a point-per-game, 1st line power winger (who can also play center) at $2.65M, they absolutely need to land a massive return back. Two good pieces won't cut it.

Adding Ritchie and saying that adds value is comical. He's dead weight. A pure cap dump the Canucks can accommodate for cap reasons. He doesn't have any hockey value. 1st + Amirov + Niemela is very fair for Miller at 50%. If there needs to be a cap dump coming back to Vancouver, then that's fine.

or 2022 1st+Niemela+SDA+2nd+Ritche?
or go 1st+Niemela+Ritche+2022 2nd+2023 2nd+2022 7th(if we deal the 1st and 2nd we may as well include the 7th so we can take the whole draft off lol)

 

[Canuck86]

If Benning is allowed to make the trade, would something like this work:

To Toronto: Miller, 2023 2nd round pick

To Vancity: Liljegren, Kerfoot, 2023 5th round pick

Not even close to enough, TO Laffs have NOTHING the Canucks need. No top 15 pick, no young RH C prospect or 2 way RHD. We have 1 dimensional offensive D already

 

[Canuck86]

This thread is LAUGHABLE!!!!

TO Laff fans want JT @ 50% retained and offer up pure garbage in return...come one now people! TO does NOT have the assets for JT unless they are offering multiple 1sts and we aren't retaining a penny in that trade either!

 

[Cogburn]

I get what you're saying but it probably wouldn't make sense for a Canucks rebuild to center around a 28 year old Miller.

No, but around Hughes and Pettersson, one of whom is still getting offered up in every third thread involved in the Canucks, would make sense.

And for the likes, Benning and Green need to be fired.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Honestly, if the Leafs are getting JT Miller, he really should be.

Kerfoot is a good player, but one of the biggest elements of "value" he brings to the Leafs is the fact that he's a competent 2nd line centre who can succeed with skilled wingers, whereas Kampf is somewhat of a black hole in that regard.

If Miller comes in, he replaces all of that value from Kerfoot.

Furthermore, Nick Ritchie on his own doesn't create enough cap even for Miller at 50%. Kerfoot does.

Replacing Kerfoot isn’t the goal, adding to the line up is the goal. Eventhough miller is the better player it doesn’t achieve anything subbing one for the other.
The difference between Ritchie and miller at 50% is 125k. The leafs can make that work easily.

 

[Nylanderthal]

You don't just line guys up by their overalls in NHL 2022 and take the best 21 or whatever.

There's roster construction and cap to consider.

At this point, Kerfoot doesn't really move the needle for us.

Let me give you an example:

Would you take Myers off us for a 3rd straight up? He'd be your 3rd best RD right now.

No he wouldn’t. Brodie holl liljegren and dermott on his offside are all better than Myers.
Kerfoot going back as cap ballast would be a dream for Vancouver.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I get that the Leafs wouldn't want to trade all of their most valuable futures, but that's not really Vancouver's problem.

If the Canucks are trading a point-per-game, 1st line power winger (who can also play center) at $2.65M, they absolutely need to land a massive return back. Two good pieces won't cut it.

Adding Ritchie and saying that adds value is comical. He's dead weight. A pure cap dump the Canucks can accommodate for cap reasons. He doesn't have any hockey value. 1st + Amirov + Niemela is very fair for Miller at 50%. If there needs to be a cap dump coming back to Vancouver, then that's fine.

One piece too many, one of Niemela or Amirov + 1st + something small would be my offer with Ritchie the cap ballast
What if that last piece was conditional? It’s a 2nd that coverts to a first if the leafs win the cup or miller extends

 

[Leaf Fans]

Not even close to enough, TO Laffs have NOTHING the Canucks need. No top 15 pick, no young RH C prospect or 2 way RHD. We have 1 dimensional offensive D already

Yeah, so Toronto can offer all those things. They just won't. Not for Miller anyway.

 

[kanucks25]

No he wouldn’t. Brodie holl liljegren and dermott on his offside are all better than Myers.
Kerfoot going back as cap ballast would be a dream for Vancouver.

Well we can agree to disagree, on all fronts.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Not even close to enough, TO Laffs have NOTHING the Canucks need. No top 15 pick, no young RH C prospect or 2 way RHD. We have 1 dimensional offensive D already

Those are all singularly better assets than what Buffalo got collectively for jack eichel. relax a bit on your expectations… also using outdated and immature insults only makes you look like a homer and does squat for your opinion.
There are adults in here trying to have a mature discussion

 

[elitepete]

Liljegren has progressed as expected, his stats back that up no matter how you look at it. 3rd pair at best? It's more 3rd pairing at worst. Sandin can play the right side and Niemala is a very nice prospect, not that you know shit about him. But yeah, I guess none of them fit the Canucks because of reasons.

No need to be offended just because I don’t like Liljegren. If Sandin can play the right side then he is a fit.

 

[Leaf Fans]

I would take Kane before Miller.

 

[nergish]

I would take Kane before Miller.

Well, that's a weird opinion.
Miller's fault right now is that he cares too much, and is getting too emotional about his teammates not keeping pace.

He's also probably a better overall player than Evander... and appears to have a healthy home life.

 

[seanlinden]

Replacing Kerfoot isn’t the goal, adding to the line up is the goal. Eventhough miller is the better player it doesn’t achieve anything subbing one for the other.
The difference between Ritchie and miller at 50% is 125k. The leafs can make that work easily.

Miller is a substantially better offensive player than Kerfoot is. Kerfoot, for the most part, has been fairly irrelevant to his line's production this year (and in the past). He's a guy who relies on his linemates to be offensive catalysts. Miller is a guy who can drive a line.

Furthermore, I think you have to look a little closer at the composition of the Leafs roster... especially on that left side.... you've got:
- Kerfoot who's 5'10, 181lbs
- Bunting who's 6'0, 186lbs
- Engvall who's 6'5, 215lbs; but plays like he's 6'0 185.
- Mikheyev who's 6'2, 192lbs
- Ritchie who's 6'3, 235lbs.

The goal for the Leafs is not just to get out of the first round, but to win a cup. To do that, you're going to need to beat 4 different teams, and chances are, throughout a run, there will be a series where a team is clogging up the middle of the ice consistently, and a guy like Nick Ritchie is going to be a much needed force. JT Miller is certainly better than anything else the Leafs have on the left side, but he brings a lot of the same attributes as what the Leafs already have in their lineup, both on the left side, and in the middle/on the right.

 

[elitepete]

or 2022 1st+Niemela+SDA+2nd+Ritche?
or go 1st+Niemela+Ritche+2022 2nd+2023 2nd+2022 7th(if we deal the 1st and 2nd we may as well include the 7th so we can take the whole draft off lol)

No.

Amirov, 1st, 2nd, Ritchie for Miller 50% retained

 

[Deadly Dogma]

No.

Amirov, 1st, 2nd, Ritchie for Miller 50% retained

I think that was pretty close to what I originally proposed, I think a Vancouver fan wanted the 2nd turned into Niemela

 

[Leaf Fans]

No.

Amirov, 1st, 2nd, Ritchie for Miller 50% retained

No thanks. Way too much for Miller in my opinion.