Not as long as you clearly since you are still passing your assumption based off baseless speculation off as a fact
Value of: JT Miller to the Leafs.
- Thread starter LEAFANFORLIFE23
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John Mandalorian
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Negative. I'm reading the various tweets and sharing my impression. At no point did I make an assertion of facts. Keep in mind, we're all reading tweets - its second hand information. If you read it and come away with a different impression, then you have no more ground to claim facts on your side.
"There are no facts only interpretations."
-Friedrich Nietzsche
You stated Benning called jt miller a cancer. Stating it means it definitively happened. Not once did you say based off rumours and speculation I think Benning called miller a cancer. Had you said that, no one would be on your case for proof that Benning called miller a cancer. It’s also why you can’t come up with proof when asked for it.
John Mandalorian
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I didn’t expect you to when you pass off your opinions as facts and then pretend you know the difference between a fact and an opinion
John Mandalorian
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I didn't pass anything off as fact. I've interpreted what's been reported same as anyone else. Learn the difference.
And actually, when I invited you to dig up the quote, what did I say? I said you can interpret the tweets as you wish. I used the same description then as I'm telling you now. I didn't make any claims on anything factual. Because these tweets are second-hand information, we're all left with interpreting those tweets. It shouldn't need to be clarified.
not sure I see a deal that makes sense here.
JT Miller is a good player with a good cap hit. But that cap is still larger than the Leafs could afford without retention.
Only money that could be moved out is Kerfoot, Mrazek, Ritchie, Engvall, Holl, Dermott and Micheyev.
Kerfoot is the darling of the coaching staff as he is used in every situation and up and down the lineup, I cannot see Dubas moving him. Even for the superior Miller. The remaining players serve zero purpose to the Canucks. With maybe the only players of interest being Dermott and either one of Engvall/Micheyev.
To VAN: Dermott + Engvall + Robertson + 2022 1st
To TOR: JT Miller @ 50% retention
I donno, as a Leaf fan I have a biased perspective on value, I suspect this likely is a deal Canucks fans will hate. But that would be the package the Leafs realistically would be able to offer.
Even if Vancouver didn't facilitate the 50% retention and the Leafs found a 3rd party to accommodate this for a 4th rounder I just don't know if I see the value being where it needs to be.
Which is kind of why I don't see a deal happening between the 2 teams.
Unless Mr. Too Involved Francesco has had enough of JT Miller for one reason or another
JT Miller is a good player with a good cap hit. But that cap is still larger than the Leafs could afford without retention.
Only money that could be moved out is Kerfoot, Mrazek, Ritchie, Engvall, Holl, Dermott and Micheyev.
Kerfoot is the darling of the coaching staff as he is used in every situation and up and down the lineup, I cannot see Dubas moving him. Even for the superior Miller. The remaining players serve zero purpose to the Canucks. With maybe the only players of interest being Dermott and either one of Engvall/Micheyev.
To VAN: Dermott + Engvall + Robertson + 2022 1st
To TOR: JT Miller @ 50% retention
I donno, as a Leaf fan I have a biased perspective on value, I suspect this likely is a deal Canucks fans will hate. But that would be the package the Leafs realistically would be able to offer.
Even if Vancouver didn't facilitate the 50% retention and the Leafs found a 3rd party to accommodate this for a 4th rounder I just don't know if I see the value being where it needs to be.
Which is kind of why I don't see a deal happening between the 2 teams.
Unless Mr. Too Involved Francesco has had enough of JT Miller for one reason or another
BobClarkesfrontteeth
Registered User
Vancouver isn't going to retain and doesn't have to. Leafs can send Ritchie or Dermott or take Ferland back as part of the deal. His LTIR space plus one salary going out would cover the cap. But Dermott, Robertson and a 1st doesn't get you Miller
Ya, I definitely don't see a turn key deal between these 2 teams. And I certainly don't think there would ever be a deal thrown around in these boards that is unanimously liked by both sides lol. The 2 fanbases marry like oil and water.
I understand JT Miller is a great player, I just think the Canucks won't get what their fans think is a fair value IMO. A Roster player + a 1st + a good prospect is likely the return for JT Miller. If the Canucks think otherwise, I just don't see how a deal will get done.
Now saying all of that, I am sure there are some teams that would be willing to move a better roster player, a better potential 1st and a better prospect than the Leafs, but the Canucks are not going to get the haul they think they should get.
When you trade the best player in the deal, you usually lose the deal at the beginning... only in time does it pan out.
With respect to the Leafs when they acquire Jake Muzzin, the deal was for Sean Durzi, Carl Grundstrom and a 1st.
Kind of see 2019 Muzz as maybe 3/4 of the way to what the current value to 2021 JT Miller. Hence the better prospect in Nick Robertson.
He's not the superstar leaguewide that he is in Vancouver. He's just widely viewed as a very good player. Time will tell, but I really have a feeling Canucks fans will not be over the moon with the return they get. They have the for sale sign on every player, not exactly the greatest way to leverage a better deal
FerrisRox
"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
The guys got nine points in 38 playoff games. I think the Leafs could head into the playoffs without him.
BobClarkesfrontteeth
Registered User
Oh I agree Vancouver fans are over rating what the return will be for Miller or any other asset they deal right now. The sharks are circling Dim Jim right now as they know he is desperate to fix the team with a trade. He also didn't help his own cause by suggesting there was a cancer in the room that they want to move.
I think the reason your deal doesn't get it done is more about Dermott and Robertson not being the right pieces for Vancouver. If Robertson was a RHD that was physical then it would align to more of what they need. Dermott doesn't move the needle as a Dman.
Yup, Thats kind of where I see it as well. The Leafs can't give up Liljegren as he is needed in the next coming years. I'm not sure they'd want to part with Neimela either who fills that RHD, but maybe. Just think that is a very high level prospect who is doing special things in finland right now. But he's definitely a top prospect that likely suites their needs better. It's a major risk for the Leafs though IMO. I'm not too sure how great I'd feel about us letting him go for 2 years of Miller.
Sounds like Tukka Rask all over again lol
Pyrophorus
Registered User
Don't trade for the lockerroom divider
He could be the cancer.
Boeser would be better on the LW.
He could be the cancer.
Boeser would be better on the LW.
Brobust
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TBH, I wouldn't want anyone potentially available on that roster except for Horvat.
You made the assertion, it's you're responsibility to back it up if you're sticking to your story. That's how a discussion works, otherwise the craziest claim wins.
Wayward Son
Registered User
The Canucks need a major shake up but it's not going to be in the form of a scorched earth rebuild. You're out to lunch.
I don't think Miller is a headcase, I think he's sick of being on a team with no plan.
There is ZERO direction in Vancouver
Brobust
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He played some putrid hockey last season. A player with such standards for the team must set the same standards for himself.
I don't buy the "Cancer" talk I just think he's sick of being on a team with no clue.
Vancouver is arguably the worst run team in the league right now.
They suck
They have no bluechip prospects
They have no extra draft picks
They have no cap space
It's all bad.
Liljegren is a bottom pairing defenseman at best, and does not play the style we need. Neither does Niemela. Both of them are too small.
Sandin is left handed.
John Mandalorian
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If the Canucks are retaining 50% on Miller, who already has a good contract, and taking back other salary as well, you realize that the number of teams that could fit him/have interest in him would make a gigantic jump right??? This offer likely gets beat by multiple contenders
