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Prospect Info: Joakim Kemell, 17th Overall, 2022 NHL Draft

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Scoresberg said:
Not to derive from the main subject here but I think Tolvanen might be the most overrated prospect we've ever had in our system.

It was easy to buy the hype in his rookie year in the KHL, and I bought it as well. But let's not overlook the fact that the majority of his goals that season came before Christmas and they were pretty much only PP goals from the dot. So as a scorer, he was already very one-dimensional.

After that hot couple of months, he hasn't showed much anywhere. He has gotten better as a two-way player but there's not much there offensively other than the shot he might get off on the PP if he has the time.
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I'm not sure his stats or the "hype" were at all unwarranted, though... the kinds of numbers he was putting up as a teenager on the world stage pretty much exactly justified all that followed. And I don't think that all came from us either... folks were dropping in from everywhere, non-Preds-fans, to gush about his exploits. His international stage performances were pretty much epic... until his final WJC when he was in our system.

I do think we "broke" him to some degree. Maybe that was necessary/inevitable. But the hype had a legitimate origin that shouldn't be dismissed too lightly.
 
Porter Stoutheart said:
I'm not sure his stats or the "hype" were at all unwarranted, though... the kinds of numbers he was putting up as a teenager on the world stage pretty much exactly justified all that followed. And I don't think that all came from us either... folks were dropping in from everywhere, non-Preds-fans, to gush about his exploits. His international stage performances were pretty much epic... until his final WJC when he was in our system.

I do think we "broke" him to some degree. Maybe that was necessary/inevitable. But the hype had a legitimate origin that shouldn't be dismissed too lightly.
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There were red flags though about him being hot or cold. I'll try to find the quotes from a scout that talked about it. His biggest problem then was when he went cold he was a negative player on the ice, which we all know if you do that in the NHL, you won't last long. So him learning to do more away from the puck probably kept him in the league. Now he just needs to find that scoring touch that got him here to begin with. He was never going to be a superstar.
 
triggrman said:
There were red flags though about him being hot or cold. I'll try to find the quotes from a scout that talked about it. His biggest problem then was when he went cold he was a negative player on the ice, which we all know if you do that in the NHL, you won't last long. So him learning to do more away from the puck probably kept him in the league. Now he just needs to find that scoring touch that got him here to begin with. He was never going to be a superstar.
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I don't think anybody ever denied or overlooked that. Just the cumulative scoring stats on their own warranted a realistic level of "hype", even while acknowledging some additional work was needed?
 
Tolvanen always had “the shot”. But that’s easy at the lower level and huge ice(KHL stuff). While he was in Milwaukee I’ll bet all he heard was D, D, D. Make him a trusted player. Do the Preds have any training to take a promising O skills guy and teach him about getting open for his “shot”? Tolvanen is such a player and his skill still looks like old KHL/AHL stuff. But he can play some D now.
 
Anyway, I don't think Tolvanen is the only comparable. We've had quite a few guys like Fiala, Arvy, Aberg who maybe had some offensive tendencies before hitting the big team, and I don't think any of them really changed their game at an early age to the extent Tolvanen has. So perhaps Tolvanen is not necessarily the best point of reference in a Kemmel thread, even if they do have one single comparable trait? :dunno:
 
Olderfan said:
Tolvanen always had “the shot”. But that’s easy at the lower level and huge ice(KHL stuff). While he was in Milwaukee I’ll bet all he heard was D, D, D. Make him a trusted player. Do the Preds have any training to take a promising O skills guy and teach him about getting open for his “shot”? Tolvanen is such a player and his skill still looks like old KHL/AHL stuff. But he can play some D now.
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I don't know, Radulov, Fiala, Arvidsson and Forsberg all came through the Preds system.
 
triggrman said:
I don't know, Radulov, Fiala, Arvidsson and Forsberg all came through the Preds system.
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Yes they did and some improve but mostly Preds have a forward development “situation”. I started to say “problem” but that’s probably not fair since I don’t know what happens up in Milwaukee. I will say that Forsberg spent only 47 games up there, Fiala is gone and hated it here, Radulov was as talented as about any player I’ve seen here(cept Kariya) but I’ll admit somebody developed Ardvisson.
 
I'm not convinced we have a development issue so much as we haven't really had that much legit offensive talent in our pipeline until recently. Outside of Tolvanen I'm not sure who else you can even argue we hurt their offensive output at expense of improving their defensive play.
 
Olderfan said:
Yes they did and some improve but mostly Preds have a forward development “situation”. I started to say “problem” but that’s probably not fair since I don’t know what happens up in Milwaukee. I will say that Forsberg spent only 47 games up there, Fiala is gone and hated it here, Radulov was as talented as about any player I’ve seen here(cept Kariya) but I’ll admit somebody developed Ardvisson.
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Fíala did have issues but I think he and the captain had issues
 
5 games 3+8, +4. Second place in the whole tournament when it comes to points (Mason McTavish 7+7). Best of Finland so far.

Kemell is playing on the second powerplay unit, and seems to "suffer" from Aleksi Heimosalmi's continuing efforts of not passing to Kemell when he is ready to shoot. But hey, Finlands PP percent is 60 so it's working anyway. He is utilizing his playmaking skills when lacking opportunities to shoot.

19 shots though, and that shot amount is low compared to his games at JYP in Liiga (you can expect 10 shots per game). But maybe it's the missed shots that make the difference here.

When it comes to defending, you don't need to worry. He has instincts that way too - last season many times he was the one that replaced a defender who went to the offensive end of the rink.

A sniper, a playmaker, a good skater, doesn't shy from contacts, and plays to both ends. That's what you should be getting.

Cool to see the last two games in the Juniors (bear in mind that Kemell is younger than most others).
 
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Olderfan said:
Hartnell never played in Milwaukee and Hornqvist was there for 49 games.
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Yeah but both got their start under Trotz, who is the king of pushing defense. Like was said, as much as this has been a narrative over the years no one really seems to be able to give examples of players that had offense beaten out of them.

Tolvanen might be the closest, but everything we heard from Milwaukee was that he was having issue getting his shots off because he was having issues adjusting to the speed and lack of time and space.
 
Armourboy said:
Tolvanen might be the closest, but everything we heard from Milwaukee was that he was having issue getting his shots off because he was having issues adjusting to the speed and lack of time and space.
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We heard that... but for the same reasons we hear it on here: our media and maybe even people in the organization also didn't realize the KHL had switched over to mostly NHL-sized surfaces. I'm not sure the speed is less in the KHL than the AHL either. Although maybe more players are playing a style to clog things up and block shots and check a little more intensely here just as a general playing style? :dunno:
 
Porter Stoutheart said:
We heard that... but for the same reasons we hear it on here: our media and maybe even people in the organization also didn't realize the KHL had switched over to mostly NHL-sized surfaces. I'm not sure the speed is less in the KHL than the AHL either. Although maybe more players are playing a style to clog things up and block shots and check a little more intensely here just as a general playing style? :dunno:
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That was coming from the fans up there, not the media.
 
Armourboy said:
Our Milwaukee fans are pretty knowledgeable. If that's what they were seeing, and the stats back it up as well, I'm not going to dismiss it.
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I wasn't talking about dismissing it. Just pointing out that the rationalizations for it may have been a bit off.
 
Porter Stoutheart said:
I wasn't talking about dismissing it. Just pointing out that the rationalizations for it may have been a bit off.
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Nah I don't recall it being because of bigger ice type thing, it was just what they were seeing. Kind of like when Jarnkrok first got to the league and it took him 30 years to get a wrister off lol.
 
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