Friedman: Jets are not rebuilding, want NHL players back if they trade core pieces

[Mortimer Snerd]

Montreal with a winking face just sends them Savard and Drouin for PLD. They're gonna give up the bare minimum, and the Jets know it

Winnipeg is completely screwed either way

No thanks. Jets will have better offers, just from teams willing to rent him for a year.

 

[tbcwpg]

TNSE is in a bit of a bind. If the Jets could re-sign their soon to be UFA's they would. How to you make those UFAs and other high-valued UFAs sign with Winnipeg?

What I'll give Winnipeg credit for is that they certainly seem able to re-sign most of their players. Nino Neiderreiter recently said what other players have - if all you see of Winnipeg is the hotel, the underground walkway to the arena, and nothing else, of course you think it's bad. Once you see the rest of the city, it's not bad at all. Winnipeg's problem is getting players here, less so keeping them. This situation is unique because it seems to stem from the team's future ability to contend, not "I hate Winnipeg". Connor, Morrissey, Scheifele, Wheeler, Ehlers, Lowry have all re-signed into their 30s. Hellebuyck re-signed for 6 years. They didn't all slow play their way to free agency (though some like Copp, Trouba and now Dubois did, but those all seem less about the city and more about other factors).

That's the problem though. I wouldn't even call Danault a high profile FA, he was just a good fit and it's Los Angeles. The Jets biggest FA signings have been Olli Jokinen and Matthieu Perreault.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

The Jets aren't going to keep him as a rental, so if he wants out of Winnipeg, signing a cheap offer-sheet the Jets would be forced to match would be the dumbest f***ing thing imaginable.



And all of this has to do with PLD's post draft seasons, how?

The other Jets poster postulated that Dach's point production this season was "average". I merely pointed out that Dach's PPG shows significant progression while PLD's production at the same point was less than a PPG.

All that to say that Buff's points are meaningless. Habs are excited about Dach's potential after what he showed us this season. They will exercise patience and watch him grow into the 2C spot as early as next season. He's perfect for it.

What I'll give Winnipeg credit for is that they certainly seem able to re-sign most of their players. Nino Neiderreiter recently said what other players have - if all you see of Winnipeg is the hotel, the underground walkway to the arena, and nothing else, of course you think it's bad. Once you see the rest of the city, it's not bad at all. Winnipeg's problem is getting players here, less so keeping them. This situation is unique because it seems to stem from the team's future ability to contend, not "I hate Winnipeg". Connor, Morrissey, Scheifele, Wheeler, Ehlers, Lowry have all re-signed into their 30s. Hellebuyck re-signed for 6 years. They didn't all slow play their way to free agency (though some like Copp, Trouba and now Dubois did, but those all seem less about the city and more about other factors).

That's the problem though. I wouldn't even call Danault a high profile FA, he was just a good fit and it's Los Angeles. The Jets biggest FA signings have been Olli Jokinen and Matthieu Perreault.

I think Winnipeg suffers from a perception problem. Its a small market with a less than vibrant social life. To any kid in their mid to late 20's, that's a huge red flag on any potential destination. Winnipeg is likely considered a great place to raise a family (so long as you can weather the winters). But that's a hard sell to hockey players. I would say that home born players from the prairies might get it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Brainiac here offering up a pending UFA in Drouin for PLD LMAO.

Nice take.

Drouin is beyond what I would cal a 'pending UFA'. Scheifele, Dubois, Helle are going to be pending UFAs. Drouin is as good as a UFA already.

But that was not a serious offer anyway.

So a deal around Samsonov and Helly would work?

With the right additions.
Just like a deal around Kerfoot would work.

 

[Daximus]

How bad does he want to get out of the Peg?

Likely not that bad. If his agent is worth what he's paid he would heavily advise against such a move. One career ending injury away from holding a bag of nothing. His agent will want at the very least a 5+year deal at fair market value and if the Habs won't give it to then they will go elsewhere. Habs would be silly to balk at an established top 6 center that wants to play for them. I inagine Gorton and Hughes aren't that stupid.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Likely not that bad. If his agent is worth what he's paid he would heavily advise against such a move. One career ending injury away from holding a bag of nothing. His agent will want at the very least a 5+year deal at fair market value and if the Habs won't give it to then they will go elsewhere. Habs would be silly to balk at an established top 6 center that wants to play for them. I inagine Gorton and Hughes aren't that stupid.

Here's why the Habs would easily balk on PLD.

1. Habs 5OA pick may turn out to be a coveted C in Will Smith / Carlsson.
2. Dach showed significant development offensively and at C last season.

If Habs draft one of the bluechip C's, then it is very unlikely they would have an immediate interest in PLD and would likely opt to wait and see if he becomes a UFA and evaluate if its worth signing him after determining what his price/salary would be. PLD in that scenario would be signed as a winger. Waiting a year also gives the Habs more time to evaluate Dach who has earned the 2C role in Montreal based on his breakthrough season and this time around will have wingers to play with (assuming injuries do not decimate the Habs like last season).

There is very little reason for the Habs to trade Dach now when he showed promise and is on a very team friendly contract (3 more years at 3.3 AAV). That contract alone boosts Dach's value to the Habs.

There is little reason for the Jets to trade PLD to Montreal for a substandard return like Fla 1st + Dvorak + Prospect(s) when they should be able to get more for PLD elsewhere even as a 1 year rental. Even including Mesar/Beck shouldn't move the needle for Winnipeg (nor for the Habs who can patiently wait and see what happens with PLD).

And if it all goes wrong for the Habs at 2C (unlikely), they may still get PLD as a UFA....

 

[Heldig]

So a deal around Samsonov and Helly would work?

Samsonov was clearly not the most valuable piece in the offer. He wont get you a sniff of Helles pads by himself.

 

[GaryPoppins]

I don't think the GM is the problem. Its the geography and environment that's the problem. Its a challenge to make Wpg a desired location for rich NHL players.

You can't pin that on Chevy.

I don't think the GM is the problem. Its the geography and environment that's the problem. Its a challenge to make Wpg a desired location for rich NHL players.

You can't pin that on Chevy.

Is a Gm not respond for the culture he builds in his organization? Let 55 & 26 turn the room sideways, failed to fire a coach that was well overdue and as noted above is losing assets.

He’s just as much to blame. If he’s incapable of appropriately selling Winnipeg to players within the org, he should step down.

 

[Bond]

I can't wait for PLD to sign somewhere else lol. Reminds me of the Monahan and Edmundson for 1sts threads

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I can't wait for PLD to sign somewhere else lol. Reminds me of the Monahan and Edmundson for 1sts threads

I am with you. I can't wait for him to be traded somewhere other than Montreal. Because it makes no sense for Montreal to trade for him, despite his wishes to be a Hab.

 

[Boonk]

So, are you saying that you'll buy more tickets to watch the Jets in the next few years if they are really terrible and lose most games, while their top draft picks and prospects are playing in junior and other leagues?

As a ST holder I don't mind a youth movement for a few years, but I'm not enthusiastic about watching the last decade of the Sens and Sabres (before they started to get a bit better last year). I doubt most fans will sustain interest through several years of dog days, and the Jets can't sell tickets to the entry drafts. Besides, if the Jets become a cellar-dweller, the franchise will become more toxic for its own young players, who will want to flee in droves.

No, but I’m not going to spend money on a team that on paper should be at least a decent team but isn’t. The locker room cancers and the team culture imploding isn’t going to do anything to sway me or the increasing number of fans cancelling their tickets to renew or purchase. TNSE needs to actually make an effort to either do a major retool or rebuild for ANY tickets to be worth paying the admission for. It’s either they do the retool like they should and assemble a team that actually gives a shit on most nights unlike this current team, or watch this team as is in perpetual mediocrity spiral, bottom out and be truly dog shit and leading to a rebuild anyway. Neither outcomes are desirable but the team core as is not working anymore and the team is going nowhere with no direction. Why should anyone pay the exorbitant ticket and concession prices were charged for that experience?

Who knows, maybe I’ll go watch the team if it’s complete shite and at the bottom half of the standings every once and a while. I certainly did when they first came back from 2011-2015. But as it stands now, this team core is soulless and not worth paying admission for anymore. TNSE not retooling/rebuilding for the future properly and beating a dead horse is not worth paying for. Certainly not over the increasing expensive ass food, gas, bills and other services we have here in Winnipeg that I have to pay for to have a roof over my head. If you have money piles to burn I’d say go for it, I certainly won’t be

 

[Daximus]

Here's why the Habs would easily balk on PLD.

1. Habs 5OA pick may turn out to be a coveted C in Will Smith / Carlsson.
2. Dach showed significant development offensively and at C last season.

If Habs draft one of the bluechip C's, then it is very unlikely they would have an immediate interest in PLD and would likely opt to wait and see if he becomes a UFA and evaluate if its worth signing him after determining what his price/salary would be. PLD in that scenario would be signed as a winger. Waiting a year also gives the Habs more time to evaluate Dach who has earned the 2C role in Montreal based on his breakthrough season and this time around will have wingers to play with (assuming injuries do not decimate the Habs like last season).

There is very little reason for the Habs to trade Dach now when he showed promise and is on a very team friendly contract (3 more years at 3.3 AAV). That contract alone boosts Dach's value to the Habs.

There is little reason for the Jets to trade PLD to Montreal for a substandard return like Fla 1st + Dvorak + Prospect(s) when they should be able to get more for PLD elsewhere even as a 1 year rental. Even including Mesar/Beck shouldn't move the needle for Winnipeg (nor for the Habs who can patiently wait and see what happens with PLD).

And if it all goes wrong for the Habs at 2C (unlikely), they may still get PLD as a UFA....

If there is one thing any GM should know you never bank on anyone making the NHL and becoming a top 6 C unless they have McDavid level pedigree. Easy for a Habs fan to say yeah we don't need them look at all these prospects we have. But any GM that values their job will take the surefire ticket rather than the lottery ticket. Its the nature of the business when your livlihood is on the line.

 

[Hunter368]

The variations on the concepts of rebuilds that people insist on around here is getting to be hilarious. 'Its not a rebuild, it is a retool.' 'It is not a rebuild, it is a mini-rebuild.' Etc, etc.

Whether it is done with futures, roster players, win now players, prospects, etc, it is a rebuild when you move out both of your top 6 centres plus your franchise goalie. That may or may not include the sale of other players. It is still a rebuild.

Jets are rebuilding, whether they want to call it that or not. The only question is, will they do it well or not?

Some posters blowing this wilding out of proportion IMO, teams restructure constantly. The idea that a team must do scorched earth rebuilds and tank intentionally to do well is wrong and only in the minds of fans.

Whether its a scorched earth rebuild or a restructure, all that matters is it well done or botched bc it doesn't matter which option a team goes if they do it poorly then its going to yield poor results.

Jets will have tons of cap space & opportunity for players who have played buried on a deep team or looking for a break on a new team. If well done, the Jets will be a playoff team again next year, if done poorly they won't be. I'm excited to see changes, new faces and new chances given to players

 

[Junohockeyfan]

If there is one thing any GM should know you never bank on anyone making the NHL and becoming a top 6 C unless they have McDavid level pedigree. Easy for a Habs fan to say yeah we don't need them look at all these prospects we have. But any GM that values their job will take the surefire ticket rather than the lottery ticket. Its the nature of the business when your livlihood is on the line.

That's ridiculous. The Habs traded Romanov + 2nd for a young center full of potential. And Dach has shown that potential last season and is well on his way to being the Habs 2C next season. Habs are in year 3 of the rebuild when you focus on development of the young players you have amassed.

Trading Dach now would be idiotic after the progression he showed and the team friendly contract he is on. The habs are not competing next season so its a perfect opportunity to watch Dach grow into the position. He hasn't given the Habs any reason why he won't be the 2C of the future.

Rebuilding teams don't abandon a promising player that they traded for 1 x season earlier for a soon to be UFA. By having the luxury of patience, the Habs can wait and see how things pan out at the 2C position, which includes if they draft Will Smith. They also have a chance at PLD next year if he becomes a UFA. That fall back plan is unlikely to be needed but its still theoretically there..

I get that the Jets have to trade PLD and your dream is to get Dach. But you have to apply logic to the situation. Dach is not available while PLD might be available to the Habs next year if they even want him.

There is no pressure on the Habs GM to trade for PLD. Hugo holds all the cards.

 

[Guffman]

Any matched offersheet means the Jets can’t trade PLD. He walks and Jets get derp derp…

And this helps Dubois how? You would think he’d want to sign a long-term extension instead of risk staying in Winnipeg another season.

 

[Daximus]

That's ridiculous. The Habs traded Romanov + 2nd for a young center full of potential. And Dach has shown that potential last season and is well on his way to being the Habs 2C next season. Habs are in year 3 of the rebuild when you focus on development of the young players you have amassed.

Trading Dach now would be idiotic after the progression he showed and the team friendly contract he is on. The habs are not competing next season so its a perfect opportunity to watch Dach grow into the position. He hasn't given the Habs any reason why he won't be the 2C of the future.

Rebuilding teams don't abandon a promising player that they traded for 1 x season earlier for a soon to be UFA. By having the luxury of patience, the Habs can wait and see how things pan out at the 2C position, which includes if they draft Will Smith. They also have a chance at PLD next year if he becomes a UFA. That fall back plan is unlikely to be needed.

I get that the Jets have to trade PLD and your dream is to get Dach. But you have to apply logic to the situation. Dach is not available while PLD might be available to the Habs next year if they even want him.

Lets not pretend that PLD is some grizzled vet who has no development left. Dudes 24 and already a top 6C and I wouldn't doubt that in the right situation where he's motivated he probably usurps anyone else in the Habs system as their 1C he was already coming close to that with the Jets.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

And this helps Dubois how? You would think he’d want to sign a long-term extension instead of risk staying in Winnipeg another season.

I don't disagree. The only way i see an offersheet unfolding is if the Jets are unable to line up a suitable trade and the negotiations on his next contract (with Wpg) are stalled.

If i am PLD, i tell my agent to encourage a trade to any team in the league that is not WInnipeg without a promise to sign longterm. Leave him options to decide his fate next season.

Lets not pretend that PLD is some grizzled vet who has no development left. Dudes 24 and already a top 6C and I wouldn't doubt that in the right situation where he's motivated he probably usurps anyone else in the Habs system as their 1C he was already coming close to that with the Jets.

And i don't doubt that Suzuki and Dach will out-perform PLD when its all said and done. See, we both can project outcomes that are in our favor.

The bottom line is that the Habs don't need to make a trade for PLD as they have options from within including Dach who they paid a healthy price to get. Why trade for PLD and give up significant assets when you don't need to? And if for whatever reason there is a need next year, then he might be available for free.

Hugo is just loving his situation. Chevy, not so much. Habs should stand pat, be patient and run-out the clock on PLD.

This is easy applied logic from the standpoint. You on the other hand are creating a narrative that the Habs need PLD, which is simply not true. The only narrative that exists is the Jets are desperate to trade PLD.

 

[Hunter368]

I can't wait for PLD to sign somewhere else lol. Reminds me of the Monahan and Edmundson for 1sts threads

I think this comment from Friendman, assuming its true pretty confirms Habs are out of the PLD trade talks bc they don't have any win now pieces of any value or any value even remotely close to PLD value (excluding 2-3 kids who wouldn't be traded) even with his contract status.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I think this comment from Friendman, assuming its true pretty confirms Habs are out of the PLD trade talks bc they don't have any win now pieces of any value or any value even remotely close to PLD value (excluding 2-3 kids who wouldn't be traded) even with his contract status.

I agree with this. From a Habs POV, i love that the Jets are looking for win-now pieces in a PLD trade. lol

I think Friedman's reporting is spot on as well. I think the Jets were looking for win-now pieces last trade deadline which is why a deal with the Habs couldn't get done resulting in the Habs pivoting to the Dach deal.

 

[Romang67]

Dach after completing D+3 seasons was tied for 66th in PPG among all C's. That puts him very close to 2C already.

When PLD completed his D+4 season he amassed 21 pts in 46 games. Not sure how that ranked but i am sure you could look it up!

Dach has a lot of development and production to go. Happy with his progress.

Yeah, if he produced just a little bit more, you could make the claim that his production is that of the worst 2C in the league.

Bang average sounds about right.

 

[Guffman]

Luckily we have f*** all in the system to replace Hellebuyck with right now, so trading him will push us out of playoff contention no matter how much the management want us to stay relevant.

Err… the Jets can and would go to the UFA market (Korpisalo, Brossoit) or the trade market (Swayman, team acquiring Hellebuyck) for a decent goaltender.

 

[Romang67]

Err… the Jets can and would go to the UFA market (Korpisalo, Brossoit) or the trade market (Swayman, team acquiring Hellebuyck) for a decent goaltender.

Sure. And replacing Hellebuyck with an average goaltender will push us right out of playoff contention.

 

[Guffman]

I think this comment from Friendman, assuming its true pretty confirms Habs are out of the PLD trade talks bc they don't have any win now pieces of any value or any value even remotely close to PLD value (excluding 2-3 kids who wouldn't be traded) even with his contract status.

If Winnipeg is clearing out all of Dubois, Scheifele and Hellebuyck, not all of those trades have to return win now pieces.

I wouldn’t discount Montreal from this unless their GM acts like their fans and makes silly low-ball offers.

 

[Baksfamous112]

How bout Jets just trade him elsewhere... Colorado for newhook and 1st is better than that crap

So you think Newhook is worth more than Mesar, 2nd and 5th round pick despite him being almost 23 and struggling?

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I wouldn’t discount Montreal from this unless their GM acts like their fans and makes silly low-ball offers.

Curious, if you are the Habs GM, what do you think they should offer for a guy who you probably don't need and who might be available for free in a year?

What's your offer? Try to see it from other side. Let's see if we could get an honest answer to this question.