Friedman: Jets are not rebuilding, want NHL players back if they trade core pieces

[Guffman]

Sure. And replacing Hellebuyck with an average goaltender will push us right out of playoff contention.

It depends what the roster players the Jets get back are AND what are the benefits of the culture changes and team buy-in if Dubois, Scheifele and Wheeler are gone?

I’d love to see what hungry players with a good opportunity can achieve if they are willing to commit to a team game.

 

[Heldig]

Curious, if you are the Habs GM, what do you think they should offer for a guy who you probably don't need and who might be available for free in a year?

What's your offer? Try to see it from other side.

Love this probably dont need mantra LOL.

You were one of the worst teams in the league for 2 years running. The team desperately needs more talent. Dubois would be at worst your 3rd best player.

If you are the Habs GM do you have enough rope to continue to suck and HOPE several prospects pan out AND HOPE no one else signs Dubois long term before next summer?

Apparently the fans are ok with that?

 

[Whileee]

No, but I’m not going to spend money on a team that on paper should be at least a decent team but isn’t. The locker room cancers and the team culture imploding isn’t going to do anything to sway me or the increasing number of fans cancelling their tickets to renew or purchase. TNSE needs to actually make an effort to either do a major retool or rebuild for ANY tickets to be worth paying the admission for. It’s either they do the retool like they should and assemble a team that actually gives a shit on most nights unlike this current team, or watch this team as is in perpetual mediocrity spiral, bottom out and be truly dog shit and leading to a rebuild anyway. Neither outcomes are desirable but the team core as is not working anymore and the team is going nowhere with no direction. Why should anyone pay the exorbitant ticket and concession prices were charged for that experience?

Who knows, maybe I’ll go watch the team if it’s complete shite and at the bottom half of the standings every once and a while. I certainly did when they first came back from 2011-2015. But as it stands now, this team core is soulless and not worth paying admission for anymore. TNSE not retooling/rebuilding for the future properly and beating a dead horse is not worth paying for. Certainly not over the increasing expensive ass food, gas, bills and other services we have here in Winnipeg that I have to pay for to have a roof over my head. If you have money piles to burn I’d say go for it, I certainly won’t be

I don't mind supporting the Jets in Winnipeg as a season-ticket holder, because I think Winnipeg is a better city to live in with the Jets in town.

What I find very irritating is fans that don't spend anything on the Jets but slag season-ticket holders for continuing to support the Jets so that they have a team to gripe about.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Love this probably dont need mantra LOL.

You were one of the worst teams in the league for 2 years running. The team desperately needs more talent. Dubois would be at worst your 3rd best player.

If you are the Habs GM do you have enough rope to continue to suck and HOPE several prospects pan out AND HOPE no one else signs Dubois long term before next summer?

Apparently the fans are ok with that?

The team has a ton of talent that needs to be nutured. 1st overall pick last year. Dach. Lots of young prospects in the pipe. What they need is time to develop.

Habs are going into year 3 of a rebuild that was sanctioned by Molson. The Habs GM and coach have a ton of rope to work with. If they finish dead last next season its ok. They need the young players to develop and gain experience.

PLD won't make the Habs a playoff team. The developing youth will make the Habs a playoff team over time.

And yes, the fans are ok with that. Why aren't you? Are you unfamiliar with how rebuilds work?

 

[Whileee]

Curious, if you are the Habs GM, what do you think they should offer for a guy who you probably don't need and who might be available for free in a year?

What's your offer? Try to see it from other side. Let's see if we could get an honest answer to this question.

I would offer nothing.

Bye.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I would offer nothing.

Bye.

Thank you for your honesty. Its the obvious answer given the situation.

 

[Hunter368]

If Winnipeg is clearing out all of Dubois, Scheifele and Hellebuyck, not all of those trades have to return win now pieces.

I wouldn’t discount Montreal from this unless their GM acts like their fans and makes silly low-ball offers.

Depends on how their GM on the Habs sees his team, if he thinks they are rebuilding for another 3 or more years then no chance he wants PLD......but if he sees them being competitive in the next 1-2 years maybe he might use some of his futures in a trade for PLD to get him now and extend him and also blocking another team in the east from extending PLD long term.

Shall be interesting to see how it ends. Habs don't have much in the way of great prospects, they have a bunch of B, C and D level prospects and that partly might push their GM to get a proven player but also harder to get Chevy to bite on 1-2-3 of none quality prospects as a return. TBD, can't wait, shall be fun to see how it turns out.

 

[Hunter368]

I agree with this. From a Habs POV, i love that the Jets are looking for win-now pieces in a PLD trade. lol

I think Friedman's reporting is spot on as well. I think the Jets were looking for win-now pieces last trade deadline which is why a deal with the Habs couldn't get done resulting in the Habs pivoting to the Dach deal.

Very possible, last summer the Habs couldn't offer enough win now pieces of value and either offered futures and/or the vets they had/have which wouldn't close the deal.

Going to be fun to see how it turns out this summer overall, not just the PLD situation.

 

[Whileee]

So, why does the topic still interest you?

Thank you for your honesty. Its the obvious answer given the situation

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Very possible, last summer the Habs couldn't offer enough win now pieces of value and either offered futures and/or the vets they had/have which wouldn't close the deal.

Going to be fun to see how it turns out this summer overall, not just the PLD situation.

Everything is staring to make sense with how things unfolded last season. Habs made their play after missing out on PLD with the Dach trade and were fortunate in Dach's progression last season.

It will be interesting to see what the offers are from other teams for PLD. In the case of win-now players vs futures, it really opens up the market for all contenders to bid on PLD with win-now players in return..

So, why does the topic still interest you?

I find it interesting how few Jets fans get it...

I think trades for PLD need to pivot away from the likes of 1st + Newhook and Dvorak + Mesar etc.... to:

Win-Now player(s) for PLD.

 

[Guffman]

Curious, if you are the Habs GM, what do you think they should offer for a guy who you probably don't need and who might be available for free in a year?

What's your offer? Try to see it from other side. Let's see if we could get an honest answer to this question.

If I was the Habs GM, I don’t make an offer. Team is rebuilding and I wouldn’t give up the trade compensation required that the Jets could get elsewhere. I would stick with Suzuki and see how Dach progreses. I might even use my 5OA on a center.

I would tell Dubois’ agent that we would be interested in signing him in the following offseason and then leave it up to Dubois to see if he would wait (play 1 year with a contender and THEN sign a long-term contract - maybe not a bad idead since the salary cap will actually move substantially the next offseason). Of course, this is a risk since Dubois may just sign long-term with another team (either this offseason, or if he is a rental, maybe he extends with the rental team).

From a marketing perspective, I don’t know how important it would be to have Pierre-Luc as one of your star players. Maybe that adjusts the above thinking.

 

[Hunter368]

Everything is staring to make sense with how things unfolded last season. Habs made their play with Dach and were fortunate in his progression last season.

It will be interesting to see what the offers are from other teams for PLD. In the case of win-now players vs futures, it really opens up the market for all contenders to bid on PLD with win-now players in return..

I posted earlier in the thread, the OP quote only gave part of Friedman's quote and left out potentially a big part of it......Friedman also stated that he fully expects futures to be included with any win now pieces........in the end the futures might be worth more then the win now pieces we shall see. TBD

 

[Junohockeyfan]

If I was the Habs GM, I don’t make an offer. Team is rebuilding and I wouldn’t give up the trade compensation required that the Jets could get elsewhere. I would stick with Suzuki and see how Dach progreses. I might even use my 5OA on a center.

I would tell Dubois’ agent that we would be interested in signing him in the following offseason and then leave it up to Dubois to see if he would wait (play 1 year with a contender and THEN sign a long-term contract - maybe not a bad idead since the salary cap will actually move substantially the next offseason). Of course, this is a risk since Dubois may just sign long-term with another team (either this offseason, or if he is a rental, maybe he extends with the rental team).

From a marketing perspective, I don’t know how important it would be to have Pierre-Luc as one of your star players. Maybe that adjusts the above thinking.

Thank you for your well thought out assessment.

From a marketing perspective, a certain segment of the Montreal population would be besides themselves if PLD is not a Habs this offseason. But that segment still feels the Drouin trade for Sergachev was warranted and would offer up excess return to get a french player in return.

I don't think this management group faces that kind of pressure. They are just tasked with putting together a team that can compete, whether it includes Slovaks, Russians or Australians.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Jets fans must be the most biased fan base in the NHL I have no clue what they think Helly is worth. If I’m the Jets I’d 100% do something around Samsonov and Helly

Nylander, Knies, Samsonov and a future 1st for Helly

That’s a deal I take and run if I’m Winnipeg

Most wpgers would love that because we are biased. If we can get half of that we are lucky. Toronto fans would spit roast you.

 

[Buffdog]

You are assuming Dach is in his final form and will remain average which is really really idiotic. Using that logic, when PLD produced 21pts in 46 games, people could just assume that his below average production is the norm. Dach has tons of potential to fullfil and is only 22.

Dach showed significant progression throughout the season. Habs are very happy with his progress and his contract. He will be given the reigns at 2C next season and his progression will continue. Why is that a struggle for you to understand?

But you agree that right now he's average, which was my point. In fact, if you go back and look, it was my only point. Dach is average.

Next year he might improve, or maybe hit a plateau or even regress. All are possibilities

I forgot that I'm dealing with a fan base who calls a player a "40 goal scorer" even though he's never scored 40 goals in a single season because "he was on pace to".

 

[Guffman]

Depends on how their GM on the Habs sees his team, if he thinks they are rebuilding for another 3 or more years then no chance he wants PLD......but if he sees them being competitive in the next 1-2 years maybe he might use some of his futures in a trade for PLD to get him now and extend him and also blocking another team in the east from extending PLD long term.

Shall be interesting to see how it ends. Habs don't have much in the way of great prospects, they have a bunch of B, C and D level prospects and that partly might push their GM to get a proven player but also harder to get Chevy to bite on 1-2-3 of none quality prospects as a return. TBD, can't wait, shall be fun to see how it turns out.

Like I just posted in the ”if I was the Montreal GM”, I don’t think it’s a good move for Montreal to acquire PLD but if there is somehow a will to bring Pierre-Luc to Montreal, I don’t think the lack of quality NHL roster pieces coming back would be a stumbling block (as long as the total package is fair).

 

[McDuffz88]

What about something involving Scheiffele and JT Miller?

Also what about something involving Hellebuyck and Dawson Mercer?

Dawson Mercer is untouchable. Kid just hit nearly 30 goals & almost 60 points as a 21 year old who can play both center & RW. He was also near .6ppg in his very first playoff appearance. NJ wouldn't even give him up for Meier. Players like him don't get traded for older players. He is a part of the core.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

But you agree that right now he's average, which was my point. In fact, if you go back and look, it was my only point. Dach is average.

Next year he might improve, or maybe hit a plateau or even regress. All are possibilities

I forgot that I'm dealing with a fan base who calls a player a "40 goal scorer" even though he's never scored 40 goals in a single season because "he was on pace to".

Sure, i agree that he is average in terms of point production. But not average in terms of potential which he has shown over significant periods last season. But i know YOU must know that.

On pace to is important when a smaller sample set was had. But i don't call any player a 50 goal scorer until they have scored 50. That's why i don't consider PLD or Suzki anything more than a 2C since they haven't produced anything more than 2C numbers.

 

[Flair Hay]

I posted earlier in the thread, the OP quote only gave part of Friedman's quote and left out potentially a big part of it......Friedman also stated that he fully expects futures to be included with any win now pieces........in the end the futures might be worth more then the win now pieces we shall see. TBD

Ah okay. So basically Friedman said not much.

Jets aren't tearing it down any more than they have to. But at least 1 big change is going to be unavoidable.

Teams are so tight to the cap the Jets may be better off waiting until close to the deadline to get the best return.

Fans will hate it, but they've proven they aren't easily influenced from their plans before...

 

[Hunter368]

Like I just posted in the ”if I was the Montreal GM”, I don’t think it’s a good move for Montreal to acquire PLD but if there is somehow a will to bring Pierre-Luc to Montreal, I don’t think the lack of quality NHL roster pieces coming back would be a stumbling block (as long as the total package is fair).

Part and part both GM's, Chevy sounds like wants win now pieces and Habs don't have any close to as valuable as PLD. Habs GM doesn't want to give up any of his futures bc he knows they aren't a competitive team even with PLD and won't be for a few more years

 

[toddkaz]

LMAO, why do the Jets need to get ripped off but every other team doesn't?

Is something funny? I missed it!

 

[Hunter368]

Ah okay. So basically Friedman said not much.

Jets aren't tearing it down any more than they have to. But at least 1 big change is going to be unavoidable.

Teams are so tight to the cap the Jets may be better off waiting until close to the deadline to get the best return.

Fans will hate it, but they've proven they aren't easily influenced from their plans before...

Potentially, we shall see.

Example: A overpaid 3rd liner (insert a common player a certain fan bases uses in their offers for PLD) as a return is really not much value (maybe a 3rd pick type of value, maybe), but he is a roster player or win now player even if he's very low value.......the value potentially would be in the futures which would be included with the roster player. We shall see

 

[Guffman]

Thank you for your well thought out assessment.

From a marketing perspective, a certain segment of the Montreal population would be besides themselves if PLD is not a Habs this offseason. But that segment still feels the Drouin trade for Sergachev was warranted and would offer up excess return to get a french player in return.

I don't think this management group faces that kind of pressure. They are just tasked with putting together a team that can compete, whether it includes Slovaks, Russians or Australians.

But having a french-speaking, young, talented center that wants to play for Montreal would definitely be enticing. This is the part of the equation I cannot quantify since that goes beyond the on-ice value.

Because of this, I just can’t discount Montreal from being in the mix even if it doesn’t make sense to both of us.

 

[Daximus]

Curious, if you are the Habs GM, what do you think they should offer for a guy who you probably don't need and who might be available for free in a year?

What's your offer? Try to see it from other side. Let's see if we could get an honest answer to this question.

The thing is Rags fans were parading around the exact same arguments for Trouba before we managed to get Pionk and a 1st out of them which they vehemently denied could ever happen.

If a trade does happen between both of these teams I feel like you are setting yourself up for dissapointment. Gorton and Chevy are pals and you are likely going to regret saying none of this will ever happen just like all the Rags fans who said the same.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

But having a french-speaking, young, talented center that wants to play for Montreal would definitely be enticing. This is the part of the equation I cannot quantify since that goes beyond the on-ice value.

Because of this, I just can’t discount Montreal from being in the mix even if it doesn’t make sense to both of us.

I think that way of thinking is in the past now. Danault was let go because the Habs didn't want to beat the offer L.A gave him.

I think the only requirement now is having a coach (and GM) that is bilingual.

Time will tell.

Speaking of home-grown players, any interest in Edmundson? A good ol Manitoba boy. Starts with a 2nd + prospect since he's a Manitoba boy. Love shoveling snow. Loves the Gimli fish hut and the QEII park.