Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman II - still waiting

[wintersej]

People asking for comps and saying if goalie x is paid this there’s no way Sway should be paid more just don’t get it. The aav and term of your deal has Jack shit to do with a deal another goalie signed 4 years ago. It’s all about the point in time today. The only problem Swayman has is that he’s an RFA vs a UFA. That’s the only possible leverage Boston has right now after Sweeney shit the bed by moving Ullmark before signing Sway. The team looking for a bridge type of deal is dumb though, and will likely end up costing them a ahitload more in actual dollars than locking a young stud goalie up now long term. But what do I know, I didn’t go to Harvard…

People who think that Sweeney could have magically waived a wand and get Swayman signed before moving Ullmark just don’t get it. The Bruins had a deadline to move Ullmark before it was going to get even harder to get value for Ullmark. Swayman’s only deadline is the start of the season. And Swayman’s agent knows this.

Negotiating a deal when you have pressure to get the deal done and the other side doesn’t is how you actually shit the bed. Still having Ullmark around wouldn’t mean shit for the negotiations with Swayman and is just the latest thing for the fellowship of the miserable to hang on to until they disappear until the first Bruins losing streak.

The same people who are complaining that Sweeney is a dolt for not signing Swayman before moving Ullmark are the exact same people who would be complaining about putting 15-16m into goaltending if Ullmark were still here. And they are the same people that would be complaining if they moved Swayman and chose Ullmark. And they are the same people that will be silent in the thread when Swayman is signed.

 

[UncleRico]

People who think that Sweeney could have magically waived a wand and get Swayman signed before moving Ullmark just don’t get it. The Bruins had a deadline to move Ullmark before it was going to get even harder to get value for Ullmark. Swayman’s only deadline is the start of the season. And Swayman’s agent knows this.

Negotiating a deal when you have pressure to get the deal done and the other side doesn’t is how you actually shit the bed. Still having Ullmark around wouldn’t mean shit for the negotiations with Swayman and is just the latest thing for the fellowship of the miserable to hang on to until they disappear until the first Bruins losing streak.

The same people who are complaining that Sweeney is a dolt for not signing Swayman before moving Ullmark are the exact same people who would be complaining about putting 15-16m into goaltending if Ullmark were still here. And they are the same people that would be complaining if they moved Swayman and chose Ullmark. And they are the same people that will be silent in the thread when Swayman is signed.

I agree with most of this but you couldn’t be more wrong about if Ullmark was here it wouldn’t impact negotiations.

Let me start off by saying I think swayman will be in goal game 1. However swayman knows the team is much worse off this year with korpisalo as the potential #1 than if Ullmark would be here for this season.

Swayman can take into negotiations that the team will have a much worse performance with korpisalo than if Ullmark was still here.

The bruins run a real risk of missing the playoffs if korpisalo/bussi are the tandem and Swayman can use that in negotiations. Whereas Ullmark would at least give them a viable option while they further negotiate with swayman.

Sweeneys would lose his job if they missed the playoffs. So there is absolutely leverage created here.

You can argue if it’s for better or worse they moved Ullmark to free up a little over a million in Cap. But there is undoubtedly leverage tilted in swaymans favor going into the season with korpisalo at #1 as opposed to Ullmark as #1

 

[LSCII]

People who think that Sweeney could have magically waived a wand and get Swayman signed before moving Ullmark just don’t get it. The Bruins had a deadline to move Ullmark before it was going to get even harder to get value for Ullmark. Swayman’s only deadline is the start of the season. And Swayman’s agent knows this.

Negotiating a deal when you have pressure to get the deal done and the other side doesn’t is how you actually shit the bed. Still having Ullmark around wouldn’t mean shit for the negotiations with Swayman and is just the latest thing for the fellowship of the miserable to hang on to until they disappear until the first Bruins losing streak.

The same people who are complaining that Sweeney is a dolt for not signing Swayman before moving Ullmark are the exact same people who would be complaining about putting 15-16m into goaltending if Ullmark were still here. And they are the same people that would be complaining if they moved Swayman and chose Ullmark. And they are the same people that will be silent in the thread when Swayman is signed.

So the deadline to move Ullmark came out of nowhere and caught Sweeney off guard? And the only time they can extend a player is if he’s reached RFA status? Seems to me that understanding the contract situation of a player and then reacting accordingly to cover yourself in any event is fhe right thing. They should have and could have easily offered Swayman a bridge deal a year earlier and likely saved themselves a lot of money, while covering themselves in the event they moved on from Ullmark, which seemed very likely. They also could have moved Ullmark at his height in value when he was the reigning Vezina trophy winner, no?

Giving Sweeney an excuse for bungling that entire transaction is laughable. He f***ed up. He got a shitty return and is now looking at overpaying to get Swayman to play.

 

[DominicT]

Sources: Hurricanes and Seth Jarvis agree to $63.2 million contract with unique deferred structure

The Carolina Hurricanes and restricted free agent Seth Jarvis have agreed to terms on a new eight-year, $63.2 million contract,...

www.dailyfaceoff.com

This is allowed in the CBA. It took 2 months to negotiate

 

[Dr Quincy]

People who think that Sweeney could have magically waived a wand and get Swayman signed before moving Ullmark just don’t get it. The Bruins had a deadline to move Ullmark before it was going to get even harder to get value for Ullmark. Swayman’s only deadline is the start of the season. And Swayman’s agent knows this.

Negotiating a deal when you have pressure to get the deal done and the other side doesn’t is how you actually shit the bed. Still having Ullmark around wouldn’t mean shit for the negotiations with Swayman and is just the latest thing for the fellowship of the miserable to hang on to until they disappear until the first Bruins losing streak.

The same people who are complaining that Sweeney is a dolt for not signing Swayman before moving Ullmark are the exact same people who would be complaining about putting 15-16m into goaltending if Ullmark were still here. And they are the same people that would be complaining if they moved Swayman and chose Ullmark. And they are the same people that will be silent in the thread when Swayman is signed.

Your first sentence starts with a false premise. There was no deadline to deal Ullmark, because they didn't HAVE to deal Ullmark. It was a decision. One they made and you can argue it was the right idea and that they did great, that it was the right idea and they did "meh" and you can argue it was the wrong idea altogether. That's the thing with decisions... there is an upside and downside for every decision, and every decision by its nature has at least 2 possible options.

You act like this whole process started on June 15th or something. It started last year, when they couldn't come to agreement with Swayman and he chose arbitration. They then offered him a $2m contract in that process. Was that a good decision? When the arbitrator awarded him $3.47m, they could have chosen 2 years for the contract. They didn't. They chose a 1 year deal. You can argue reasons that was right and that was wrong.

They could have extended him on January 1, knowing that he was their guy. They couldn't agree then.
They could have extended him after the playoffs when they saw that he was their playoff goalie and their future. They couldn't agree then.

Meanwhile, they got locked into the idea that they HAD to trade Ullmark and that they HAD to do it before the draft because they really wanted a 1st rd pick. Being locked into a decision is even worse in negotiating that the idea of a deadline you raised. They got poor value and took on cap for 3 years. If the idea was "OMG WE CAN'T SPEND A LOT ON GOALIES!!!" then the deal they made was a complete fail. Ullmark at $5m > Korpisalo $3m and if someone has an argument why that's wrong, go ahead and make it.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Actually in sways position they did

You sure about that? McAvoy was an RFA when he signed his current $9.5 mill a year deal.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Think something like 3 for 7.5 per is very much in play.

That's a good number

 

[EverettMike]

That's a good number

Definitely will be for 3 years, but it's gonna f*** over the next Bruins GM.

 

[SwayHeyKid]

Why didn't Carolina press the screws to Jarvis?

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Sources: Hurricanes and Seth Jarvis agree to $63.2 million contract with unique deferred structure

The Carolina Hurricanes and restricted free agent Seth Jarvis have agreed to terms on a new eight-year, $63.2 million contract,...

www.dailyfaceoff.com

This is allowed in the CBA. It took 2 months to negotiate

Oh this is interesting.

 

[bruins19]

Just checking in. Sway is still not signed and people disagree to why.

This has been entertaining

We will get 35 more pages until he does . . .

 

[bruins19]

I agree with most of this but you couldn’t be more wrong about if Ullmark was here it wouldn’t impact negotiations.

Let me start off by saying I think swayman will be in goal game 1. However swayman knows the team is much worse off this year with korpisalo as the potential #1 than if Ullmark would be here for this season.

Swayman can take into negotiations that the team will have a much worse performance with korpisalo than if Ullmark was still here.

The bruins run a real risk of missing the playoffs if korpisalo/bussi are the tandem and Swayman can use that in negotiations. Whereas Ullmark would at least give them a viable option while they further negotiate with swayman.

Sweeneys would lose his job if they missed the playoffs. So there is absolutely leverage created here.

You can argue if it’s for better or worse they moved Ullmark to free up a little over a million in Cap. But there is undoubtedly leverage tilted in swaymans favor going into the season with korpisalo at #1 as opposed to Ullmark as #1

They moved Ullmark to get back a first round pick and because Sway was likely to get a big payday. If he gets 8 for instance, they could not afford to put $13 M into goaltending. We needed the money for other moves. Timing did not work to our benefit because we had to trade before the draft and, as someone else noted, that put Sway is in the driver’s seat as he can wait to sign.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Swayman will be 26 in November. IIRC he attains UFA status in 2 years. I understand him wanting a long term deal. But he has to understand he hasn’t yet proven he can handle the number one workload.

I’d guess Sweeney is offering 3 years/ 19.5 (6.5m per). Buys one year of UFA. Maybe Swayman would prefer to take 2 years at 6.5/ 7m per, taking him to age 28 and UFA status. If he plays well for 2 years there’ll be a number of teams lined up with a long term big $$ contract.

10m per for 8 years is an absurd risk.

The trend (and a good one) is to lock up your young talent before they have “proven” their worth completely. It’s better to take risk and pay for the best years versus bringing in UFA and paying for previous performance. IMO there’s no way the Bruins would offer a 2 or 3 year contract walking Swayman to UFA. That would be malpractice.

 

[Hookslide]

They moved Ullmark to get back a first round pick and because Sway was likely to get a big payday. If he gets 8 for instance, they could not afford to put $13 M into goaltending. We needed the money for other moves. Timing did not work to our benefit because we had to trade before the draft and, as someone else noted, that put Sway is in the driver’s seat as he can wait to sign.

So instead of 13 mil, you are looking at 11 mil, with longer term.

 

[Hookslide]

Definitely will be for 3 years, but it's gonna f*** over the next Bruins GM.

Do you know something about a GM change ?

 

[bruins19]

So instead of 13 mil, you are looking at 11 mil, with longer term.

And a first round pick. I think the front office put a very high value on that after too many years without one. Although there are certainly busts, there are gems in that round for sure (Pasta was a #24 pick). I have the impression that we did not ask for a goalie coming back. Korpi was coming off a horrendous season (albeit on a team with efense - i.e., no d). Taking Korpi was part of the deal. If we did not come out of that trade with a bruised goalie and his 3M salary to eat, we would all agree that would have been much better.

 

[Dr Quincy]

So instead of 13 mil, you are looking at 11 mil, with longer term.

Exactly... and with lower quality of play.

 

[wintersej]

I agree with most of this but you couldn’t be more wrong about it Ullmark was here it wouldn’t impact negotiations.

Let me start off by saying I think swayman will be in goal game 1. However swayman knows the team is much worse off this year with korpisalo as the potential #1 than if Ullmark would be here for this season.

Swayman can take into negotiations that the team will have a much worse performance with korpisalo than if Ullmark was still here.

The bruins run a real risk of missing the playoffs if korpisalo/bussi are the tandem and Swayman can use that in negotiations. Whereas Ullmark would at least give them a viable option while they further negotiate with swayman.

Sweeneys would lose his job if they missed the playoffs. So there is absolutely leverage created here.

You can argue if it’s for better or worse they moved Ullmark to free up a little over a million in Cap. But there is undoubtedly leverage tilted in swaymans favor going into the season with korpisalo at #1 as opposed to Ullmark as #1

The Bruins potentially losing a couple points in the standings in October doesn’t mean much. If things are so bad that Swayman sitting out until December or whatever obviously Sweeney misread the situation, but playing the “what if” game on imaginary things is silly to get angry about. And frankly, how far do you want to take this thought concept? Should the Bruins have had another elite RW to be able to negotiate with Pastrnak? Did they need another top 10 D to negotiate with McAvoy? Despite the doom and gloom here, the Bruins hold more cards than Swayman here. He is an RFA. There isn’t an offersheet coming. Sweeney has set things up to make sure that can’t happen.

So the deadline to move Ullmark came out of nowhere and caught Sweeney off guard? And the only time they can extend a player is if he’s reached RFA status? Seems to me that understanding the contract situation of a player and then reacting accordingly to cover yourself in any event is fhe right thing. They should have and could have easily offered Swayman a bridge deal a year earlier and likely saved themselves a lot of money, while covering themselves in the event they moved on from Ullmark, which seemed very likely. They also could have moved Ullmark at his height in value when he was the reigning Vezina trophy winner, no?

Giving Sweeney an excuse for bungling that entire transaction is laughable. He f***ed up. He got a shitty return and is now looking at overpaying to get Swayman to play.

I mean if you recall, they did go out and shop Ullmark last offseason and couldnt find a deal to their liking after the Pens decided to keep Jarry. And at that point they didn’t have the cash to offer Swayman that kind of bridge. Now I know you were anti-Bergeron/Krejci bonus contracts, but you were in the very small minority of that. And even though things came crashing down in the playoffs, I think that vast majority of folks would still be very against your stance there. If we want to go all the way back to Forbort and Foligno, sure, no arguments here. But how many times are we re-litigating that? Sometimes GM take swings and they don’t work out. If you or I was GM it would happen to us, too.

Your first sentence starts with a false premise. There was no deadline to deal Ullmark, because they didn't HAVE to deal Ullmark. It was a decision. One they made and you can argue it was the right idea and that they did great, that it was the right idea and they did "meh" and you can argue it was the wrong idea altogether. That's the thing with decisions... there is an upside and downside for every decision, and every decision by its nature has at least 2 possible options.

You act like this whole process started on June 15th or something. It started last year, when they couldn't come to agreement with Swayman and he chose arbitration. They then offered him a $2m contract in that process. Was that a good decision? When the arbitrator awarded him $3.47m, they could have chosen 2 years for the contract. They didn't. They chose a 1 year deal. You can argue reasons that was right and that was wrong.

They could have extended him on January 1, knowing that he was their guy. They couldn't agree then.
They could have extended him after the playoffs when they saw that he was their playoff goalie and their future. They couldn't agree then.

Meanwhile, they got locked into the idea that they HAD to trade Ullmark and that they HAD to do it before the draft because they really wanted a 1st rd pick. Being locked into a decision is even worse in negotiating that the idea of a deadline you raised. They got poor value and took on cap for 3 years. If the idea was "OMG WE CAN'T SPEND A LOT ON GOALIES!!!" then the deal they made was a complete fail. Ullmark at $5m > Korpisalo $3m and if someone has an argument why that's wrong, go ahead and make it.

I mean sure, if we want to track all the dominos we can do that. They tried to deal Ullmark last summer and couldn’t find a deal to their liking. Because of the Bergeron/Krejci bonuses and the global pandemic flat cap, they were tight on cash. That lead to Swayman’s camp selecting arbitration because they thought they could squeeze more out of Boston that way. They were right. Sweeney picked the one year instead of two because they didn’t want to be an accepted QO away from Swayman hitting UFA. They could have paid and arm and a leg to move out Forbort in that environment to try to get a few million more bucks to throw Swayman’s way, but was Swayman proven enough to give him a 5x5? Would Swayman have been ready to commit longer than that? Would Swayman’s camp even want to go that long before he had proven it more? Would we all be complaining in a couple more years when that expired and the team was looking at giving a 29 year old goalie a long term deal buying up post 30 years? It honestly becomes a rabbit hole that leads back to signings made before Swayman had ever put on an NHL jersey if you want to go all the way down the rabbit hole.

 

[wintersej]

And a first round pick. I think the front office put a very high value on that after too many years without one. Although there are certainly busts, there are gems in that round for sure (Pasta was a #24 pick). I have the impression that we did not ask for a goalie coming back. Korpi was coming off a horrendous season (albeit on a team with efense - i.e., no d). Taking Korpi was part of the deal. If we did not come out of that trade with a bruised goalie and his 3M salary to eat, we would all agree that would have been much better.

Not just a pick, but specifically Letourneau. They clearly really really like him as they came out and said they would have traded the pick if he wasn’t on the board.

 

[UncleRico]

The Bruins potentially losing a couple points in the standings in October doesn’t mean much. If things are so bad that Swayman sitting out until December or whatever obviously Sweeney misread the situation, but playing the “what if” game on imaginary things is silly to get angry about. And frankly, how far do you want to take this thought concept? Should the Bruins have had another elite RW to be able to negotiate with Pastrnak? Did they need another top 10 D to negotiate with McAvoy? Despite the doom and gloom here, the Bruins hold more cards than Swayman here. He is an RFA. There isn’t an offersheet coming. Sweeney has set things up to make sure that can’t happen.

so you think the bruins going from swayman/Ullmark to korpisalo/bussi is only a couple points difference in the standings?

I think it’s a 6-8 game difference.

Well that makes a ton of sense regarding your position.

I think it’s a potential to miss the playoffs and will result in

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

so you think the bruins going from swayman/Ullmark to korpisalo/bussi is only a couple points difference in the standings?

I think it’s a 6-8 game difference.

Well that makes a ton of sense regarding your position.

I think it’s a potential to miss the playoffs and will result in

There’s no player in the league worth 8 wins. Connor McDavid isn’t worth 8 wins.

 

[UncleRico]

There’s no player in the league worth 8 wins. Connor McDavid isn’t worth 8 wins.

Going from the best goalie situation to potentially one of the worst could certainly be.

And if swayman holds out and it’s korpisalo and bussi it’s possible

 

[UncleRico]

The Bruins potentially losing a couple points in the standings in October doesn’t mean much. If things are so bad that Swayman sitting out until December or whatever obviously Sweeney misread the situation, but playing the “what if” game on imaginary things is silly to get angry about. And frankly, how far do you want to take this thought concept? Should the Bruins have had another elite RW to be able to negotiate with Pastrnak? Did they need another top 10 D to negotiate with McAvoy? Despite the doom and gloom here, the Bruins hold more cards than Swayman here. He is an RFA. There isn’t an offersheet coming. Sweeney has set things up to make sure that can’t happen.



I mean if you recall, they did go out and shop Ullmark last offseason and couldnt find a deal to their liking after the Pens decided to keep Jarry. And at that point they didn’t have the cash to offer Swayman that kind of bridge. Now I know you were anti-Bergeron/Krejci bonus contracts, but you were in the very small minority of that. And even though things came crashing down in the playoffs, I think that vast majority of folks would still be very against your stance there. If we want to go all the way back to Forbort and Foligno, sure, no arguments here. But how many times are we re-litigating that? Sometimes GM take swings and they don’t work out. If you or I was GM it would happen to us, too.



I mean sure, if we want to track all the dominos we can do that. They tried to deal Ullmark last summer and couldn’t find a deal to their liking. Because of the Bergeron/Krejci bonuses and the global pandemic flat cap, they were tight on cash. That lead to Swayman’s camp selecting arbitration because they thought they could squeeze more out of Boston that way. They were right. Sweeney picked the one year instead of two because they didn’t want to be an accepted QO away from Swayman hitting UFA. They could have paid and arm and a leg to move out Forbort in that environment to try to get a few million more bucks to throw Swayman’s way, but was Swayman proven enough to give him a 5x5? Would Swayman have been ready to commit longer than that? Would Swayman’s camp even want to go that long before he had proven it more? Would we all be complaining in a couple more years when that expired and the team was looking at giving a 29 year old goalie a long term deal buying up post 30 years? It honestly becomes a rabbit hole that leads back to signings made before Swayman had ever put on an NHL jersey if you want to go all the way down the rabbit hole.

Also negotiations involve a heavy amount of what ifs.

When you are determining where possible outcome of signing someone, the term you sign them for and if you even want to sign them, the ramifications of signing them and if you don’t what the next step is. Everything is a “what if” and you weigh the what if this situation happens and try to determine the outcome.

 

[Chevalier du Clavier]

Bruins goalie returns to UMaine to work out with Black Bears

Jeremy Swayman was decked out in goaltending equipment, taking shots from University of Maine players at Alfond Arena on Friday morning.

www.bangordailynews.com

 

[Demon Eyes]

Sources: Hurricanes and Seth Jarvis agree to $63.2 million contract with unique deferred structure

The Carolina Hurricanes and restricted free agent Seth Jarvis have agreed to terms on a new eight-year, $63.2 million contract,...

www.dailyfaceoff.com

This is allowed in the CBA. It took 2 months to negotiate

In light of recent happenings, are contracts such as these guaranteed to heirs? One comment i found online mentioned a 1million payout and implied only a year of the contract being paid out. I believe the NFL is not guaranteed and should a player pass on, the contract is over. But for players who defer, there has to be some sort of protection in the unfortunate event the player dies. Ohtani is deferring 68 million a year. I don't believe anyone with agree to such a terms if there was no payout, even if they were at fault. They would at least still have to be paid for the years rendered.