Speculation: Jack Eichel thread

[TommyDangles]

He isn't ignoring them thus he hasn't had a surgery. He wants to try an alternative that is a legitimate procedure that has less negative effects on his long term health. The best part is he can do the disk fusion as a fall back if this doesn't work but he can't do it the other way around. Lehner had a problem with how the doctors handled his injury wouldn't be shocked if Eichel wants another opinion.

"The best part is he can do the disk fusion as a fall back if this doesn't work but he can't do it the other way around."

A botched surgery isn't a guarantee to be fixed. I'd stop acting like you know the ins and outs of both surgeries just because you listened to a podcast.

"Lehner had a problem with how the doctors handled his injury wouldn't be shocked if Eichel wants another opinion."

Eichel has been allowed to get many different opinions.

Sabres doctors are very familiar with the surgeries and the risks that go along with it. The procedure is largely unproven in contact sports where these types of impact occur regularly, so they are understandably cautious. Both parties agreed to a trade. Medical disputes like this happen quite often in professional sports. Jack can either wait till he's traded or get the surgery on his own & risk voiding his contract. Or he can file for a grievance, but I don't think Jack really has a case.

 

[TommyDangles]

According to the CBA, yes.

Morally, no.

And that's why he's sitting out.

Why wouldn't the Sabres have a say morally? They gave him $80 million for 8 years. Jack willingly signed the contract knowing that the team has a say in any medical decisions. He's not prevented from getting the surgery, just from getting the remaining money if he gets the surgery on his own.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Why wouldn't the Sabres have a say morally? They gave him $80 million for 8 years. Jack willingly signed the contract knowing that the team has a say in any medical decisions. He's not prevented from getting the surgery, just from getting the remaining money if he gets the surgery on his own.

Because it's his health.

What are the Sabres' choices?

 

[ORRFForever]

By rumored accounts Eichel has been shopping around doctors and having difficulty finding any other ones agreeing ADR is the best for Eichel. If Eichel gets hit and his disc dislodges and he becomes paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of his life, is that Sabres doctors being selfish and neglecting to look out for his long term life outlook?

I guess I just don’t understand your major skepticism with the Sabres doctors motives when most other physicians agree with their stance.

Well said.

Jack is an arrogant 25 year old - who thinks he knows better than everyone else.

 

[TommyDangles]

Because it's his health.

What are the Sabres' choices?

And he can get the surgery right now if he wants. What's your point?

 

[ORRFForever]

Why wouldn't the Sabres have a say morally? They gave him $80 million for 8 years. Jack willingly signed the contract knowing that the team has a say in any medical decisions. He's not prevented from getting the surgery, just from getting the remaining money if he gets the surgery on his own.

Agree. If you want ADR, get it, but know the contract is void.

Jack needs to put HIS money where HIS mouth is.

 

[duckpuck]

By rumored accounts Eichel has been shopping around doctors and having difficulty finding any other ones agreeing ADR is the best for Eichel. If Eichel gets hit and his disc dislodges and he becomes paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of his life, is that Sabres doctors being selfish and neglecting to look out for his long term life outlook?

I guess I just don’t understand your major skepticism with the Sabres doctors motives when most other physicians agree with their stance.

I have seen no on the record/reputable reporting suggesting that Eichel is likely to be paralyzed if the disk replacement fails in a hockey game or other situation (as opposed to a botched surgery). Perhaps that's true - can you provide some support for that? I don't claim to have read everything, but what I have read suggest if disk replacement fails, it just means means you end up having fusion surgery. That is why I'm skeptical.

Another reason I'm skeptical is because I think is really unusual for a team to dictate potential life changing medical procedures. Maybe the team has the legal right - maybe. And the team doctors are conflicted.

In terms of rumored accounts - I guess we'll see. I don't put much credence in rumors, but that could be true.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

Purple stuff?

Sunny D

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

And he can get the surgery right now if he wants. What's your point?

That he's morally in the right, and what he's doing right now is obviously preferable to getting the surgery and nullifying the contract.

What's your point?

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I think if the Sabres make the playoffs without Jack Eichel then it might make a new trend franchise players being a burden on teams.

 

[HSF]

Any new rumours ? Are the flames the front runners ?

 

[HarrySPlinkett]

I think if the Sabres make the playoffs without Jack Eichel then it might make a new trend franchise players being a burden on teams.

It is virtually impossible to win a Stanley Cup without franchise players.

Even the Carolina Hurricanes had a 100-point Eric Staal as their #1C, and if they'd had to play a team better than the Edmonton Oilers, they would have lost.

As Chris Rock once said, 'you can drive a car with your feet if you want to, don't make it a good idea.'

 

[Boxscore]

As a Leafs fan, I'm finally coming around on the idea of rolling the dice on a Marner for Eichel trade.

 

[Boxscore]

It is virtually impossible to win a Stanley Cup without franchise players.

The Blues did. I mean, I love O'Reilly, Tarasenko, Pietrangelo and Binnington... but they're not exactly Gretzky, Kurri, Coffey and Fuhr.

 

[TerminatorBlue]

As a Leafs fan, I'm finally coming around on the idea of rolling the dice on a Marner for Eichel trade.

lol good luck convincing Buffalo of that.

 

[HarrySPlinkett]

The Blues did. I mean, I love O'Reilly, Tarasenko, Pietrangelo and Binnington... but they're not exactly Gretzky, Kurri, Coffey and Fuhr.

Pietro is a 2x national team member, O’Reilly was on the team in 2016.

Tarasenko scored 30+ five straight years.

Schwartz, Perron and Schenn are/were quality secondary pieces.

Bouw May not have been his prime self, but he had a resumé most defensemen would kill for.

Parayko was on Team North America.

Nothing to slouch at. And there were years when they were expected to do much more under Hitch.

They may not be the best franchise players, but they were franchise enough.

 

[rumrokh]

The Blues did. I mean, I love O'Reilly, Tarasenko, Pietrangelo and Binnington... but they're not exactly Gretzky, Kurri, Coffey and Fuhr.

This is why I have zero respect for the whole generational vs. elite vs. franchise nonsense. Nobody seems to agree what each label means, so you get weird takes like this. Most Cup winners lack outright all-time legends of the sport.

 

[dire wolf]

This is why I have zero respect for the whole generational vs. elite vs. franchise nonsense. Nobody seems to agree what each label means, so you get weird takes like this. Most Cup winners lack outright all-time legends of the sport.

I think the point is that virtually every Stanley Cup winning team has had at least 1 player that is at the level of being worthy of serious HOF consideration or major trophy winner. STL may be an outlier in that respect. Here's the last 20 years:

2020 & 21 - TBL - Stamkos, Hedman (possibly Vasilevsky)
2019 - STL - ??
2018 - WSH - Ovi
2016 & 17 - PIT - Crosby, Malkin, MAF & possibly Letang
2015 - CHI - Kane, Toews, Hossa, Keith
2014 - LAK - Kopitar, Doughty
2013 - CHI- Kane, Toews, Hossa, Keith
2012 - LAK - Kopitar, Doughty
2011 - BOS - Bergeron, Chara, Marchand
2010 - CHI- Kane, Toews, Hossa, Keith
2009 - PIT - Crosby, Malkin, MAF
2008 - DET - Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom (not counting Hasek here)
2007 - ANA - Selanne, Getzlaf, Perry, Pronger, Niedermayer
2006 - CAR - Staal (Brind'Amour)
2005 - NA
2004 - TBL - St. Louis, Lecavalier (Richards, Andreychuk)
2003 - NJD - Brodeur, Stevens (Elias, Nieuwendyk)
2002 - DET - Shanahan, Hull, Fedorov, Lidstrom, Robitaille, Yzerman, Chelios, Datsyuk, Hasek
2001 - COL - Sakic, Forsberg, Bourque, Roy

 

[The Colonel]

2019 Blues and 2006 Canes feel like cousins here.

I think the point is that virtually every Stanley Cup winning team has had at least 1 player that is at the level of being worthy of serious HOF consideration or major trophy winner. STL may be an outlier in that respect. Here's the last 20 years:

2020 & 21 - TBL - Stamkos, Hedman (possibly Vasilevsky)
2019 - STL - ??
2018 - WSH - Ovi
2016 & 17 - PIT - Crosby, Malkin, MAF & possibly Letang
2015 - CHI - Kane, Toews, Hossa, Keith
2014 - LAK - Kopitar, Doughty
2013 - CHI- Kane, Toews, Hossa, Keith
2012 - LAK - Kopitar, Doughty
2011 - BOS - Bergeron, Chara, Marchand
2010 - CHI- Kane, Toews, Hossa, Keith
2009 - PIT - Crosby, Malkin, MAF
2008 - DET - Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom (not counting Hasek here)
2007 - ANA - Selanne, Getzlaf, Perry, Pronger, Niedermayer
2006 - CAR - Staal (Brind'Amour)
2005 - NA
2004 - TBL - St. Louis, Lecavalier (Richards, Andreychuk)
2003 - NJD - Brodeur, Stevens (Elias, Nieuwendyk)
2002 - DET - Shanahan, Hull, Fedorov, Lidstrom, Robitaille, Yzerman, Chelios, Datsyuk, Hasek
2001 - COL - Sakic, Forsberg, Bourque, Roy

 

[rumrokh]

I think the point is that virtually every Stanley Cup winning team has had at least 1 player that is at the level of being worthy of serious HOF consideration or major trophy winner. STL may be an outlier in that respect. Here's the last 20 years:

2020 & 21 - TBL - Stamkos, Hedman (possibly Vasilevsky)
2019 - STL - ??
2018 - WSH - Ovi
2016 & 17 - PIT - Crosby, Malkin, MAF & possibly Letang
2015 - CHI - Kane, Toews, Hossa, Keith
2014 - LAK - Kopitar, Doughty
2013 - CHI- Kane, Toews, Hossa, Keith
2012 - LAK - Kopitar, Doughty
2011 - BOS - Bergeron, Chara, Marchand
2010 - CHI- Kane, Toews, Hossa, Keith
2009 - PIT - Crosby, Malkin, MAF
2008 - DET - Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom (not counting Hasek here)
2007 - ANA - Selanne, Getzlaf, Perry, Pronger, Niedermayer
2006 - CAR - Staal (Brind'Amour)
2005 - NA
2004 - TBL - St. Louis, Lecavalier (Richards, Andreychuk)
2003 - NJD - Brodeur, Stevens (Elias, Nieuwendyk)
2002 - DET - Shanahan, Hull, Fedorov, Lidstrom, Robitaille, Yzerman, Chelios, Datsyuk, Hasek
2001 - COL - Sakic, Forsberg, Bourque, Roy

Your point has some substance. The point I was responding to was hyperbolic to a fault. O'Reilly, Tarasenko, and Pietrangelo are closer to a lot of those guys than most of them are to Gretzky, Kurri, Coffey, and Fuhr.

Plus, "franchise" is an operative word in the previous comment, which means it's just as much about interpreting that label's meaning or rewriting one's own meaning over it. That lends itself to the rancid extreme we saw immediately pop up.

 

[HarrySPlinkett]

In a Stanley Cup Final, the team with the most stars wins.

This isn’t (or shouldn’t be) controversial.

Hockey is more random than other sports, so having stars doesn’t guarantee anything - it isn’t basketball.

but the tie always goes to the more talented team in the SCF.

Certainly that’s the case this century.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

I thought this thread was about Eichel?

 

[Dr Quincy]

Why wouldn't the Sabres have a say morally? They gave him $80 million for 8 years. Jack willingly signed the contract knowing that the team has a say in any medical decisions. He's not prevented from getting the surgery, just from getting the remaining money if he gets the surgery on his own.

This is not true. Eichel signed his contract before the MOU that gave teams the right to decide treatment. This may or may not change anything, but if you are going to allege that he knew the team had this power, then you have to believe Jack can see 2 years into the future.

 

[TommyDangles]

This is not true. Eichel signed his contract before the MOU that gave teams the right to decide treatment. This may or may not change anything, but if you are going to allege that he knew the team had this power, then you have to believe Jack can see 2 years into the future.

I didn't say "final say"

Person I was responding to said that the Sabres shouldn't have any say at all.

Team still had a say before the CBA change. They just didn't have the final say.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Wondering how my offer (right before the season) looks now?

* Eichel
for
* Caufield
* Romanov
* Two 1st's (2023/2024) with conditions on games played by Eichel in the next two years.
* Weber's LTIR contract