Confirmed with Link: Ivan Provorov traded to CBJ (via LA) - 1st, 2 2nds, Petersen, Walker, Grans to Philly

[Deadpool8812]

I do not disagree. Retaining Hayes salary is likely inevitable in order to trade him...but does his coach have to slag him quite so hard? While he's on the trade block? Because if Torts continues nis petulant attitude...you won't move Hayes without sweeteners well beyond retained salary

Torts is an egotistical asshole. What do you expect?

 

[deadhead]

maybe the coach could rehabilitate Hayes' trade value? I mean, if he is now truly part of the Flyers brain trust, wouldn't that be the smart thing to do? Hayes is not a bad NHL player by any stretch.

or is Torts still just a complete asshole, where 1% of his former players love him for how he gave them the proper tough love, and the rest have nothing to say but platitudes. even on the cusp of getting handed some of the reins for an entire club, Torts maybe can't abandon whatever his wacky core principles are. but it would be better for the Flyers if he could ease off Hayes criticism...I doubt any of the youngsters would be tainted forever by doing so.

More like 90% love him, and most of the former players who slag him are sour grapes.

Torts did his best to rehabilitate Hayes, tried him at wing, then at 3C with JVR and Allison. Hayes did play better when he returned to center, but he just isn't suited to Torts' up tempo style of play. The league knows what he is and he isn't, he can score at a 2C level in the right situation, but he's a deliberate player who isn't suited to a high speed game.

There are HCs/GMs who will feel they can get good value from Hayes in the right situation and at the right price/salary.
You're not going to get a 1st for him, but you might get a 2nd/3rd with salary retained or a bad contract coming back.

 

[eramosat]

Torts is an egotistical asshole. What do you expect?

what I expect is that now he is closer to power, that he bend to the will of the club, instead of just his own coaching principles. period. unless Briere plans to directionally
run the ship from the ice up to the penthouse. which would probably be terrible, and therefore, unlikely.

So. Torts should capitulate. Play Hayes more. Stop making him out to not be an actual NHL centre. Trade him for value instead of giving him away.

Which is what a mature adult would do. Or an immature adult under the thumb of another mature adult. I don't care which applies.

 

[Deadpool8812]

what I expect is that now he is closer to power, that he bend to the will of the club, instead of just his own coaching principles. period. unless Briere plans to directionally
run the ship from the ice up to the penthouse. which would probably be terrible, and therefore, unlikely.

So. Torts should capitulate. Play Hayes more. Stop making him out to not be an actual NHL centre. Trade him for value instead of giving him away.

Which is what a mature adult would do. Or an immature adult under the thumb of another mature adult. I don't care which applies.

You don't know Torts that well, do you?

 

[eramosat]

what I expect is that now he is closer to power, that he bend to the will of the club, instead of just his own coaching principles. period. unless Briere plans to directionally
run the ship from the ice up to the penthouse. which would probably be terrible, and therefore, unlikely.

So. Torts should capitulate. Play Hayes more. Stop making him out to not be an actual NHL centre. Trade him for value instead of giving him away.

You don't know Torts that well, do you?

listen. if Torts doesn't give up this particular vendetta...then he's actively hurting the cause. maybe with age comes some wisdom.

 

[deadhead]

It has nothing to do with vendetta, if you watched the games last year, you could see that JVR and Hayes play at a different pace than the first two lines.
They're just not suited to this style of play, you don't change your scheme, especially when rebuilding, to suit two middle of the pack veterans.

Hayes' value depends on a team that wants what he can do and can live with what he can't do.
He played enough minutes last year, 2nd on the team in ES minutes at 14:47.

 

[Rich Nixon]

At least since Fletch is gone and now this trade, my interest started to return. Not even having pick 5 did that last year. Hopefully we keep on the pick/prospect collection and have something to look forward to in the future.

I was thinking the other day that this trade was the only noteworthy win they've had since early March of 2020

 

[Beef Invictus]

More like 90% love him, and most of the former players who slag him are sour grapes.

Torts did his best to rehabilitate Hayes, tried him at wing, then at 3C with JVR and Allison. Hayes did play better when he returned to center, but he just isn't suited to Torts' up tempo style of play. The league knows what he is and he isn't, he can score at a 2C level in the right situation, but he's a deliberate player who isn't suited to a high speed game.

There are HCs/GMs who will feel they can get good value from Hayes in the right situation and at the right price/salary.
You're not going to get a 1st for him, but you might get a 2nd/3rd with salary retained or a bad contract coming back.

Why did the Rangers and Vancouver players revolt against him?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Some players may hate Torts. Doesn’t mean he isn’t a good coach.

Boston hated Cassidy & forced him out. Is he a bad coach?

No, he’s an excellent coach about to win a Cup with Vegas.

Flyers players hated Keenan. Was he a bad coach? No, he was a good one.

Players despised Ken Hitchcock. Now they comment on how much better he made them, though they hated him at the time.

Players prefer to be comfortable. They don’t like being pushed & told what they don’t want to hear. They don’t like playing defense, if given the opportunity to ignore it & focus on the fun stuff & stats. Provorov still can’t accept he’s not a PP1 guy.

A coach’s job isn’t to coddle his players. It’s to get the best out of them.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Some players may hate Torts. Doesn’t mean he isn’t a good coach.

Boston hated Cassidy & forced him out. Is he a bad coach?

No, he’s an excellent coach about to win a Cup with Vegas.

Flyers players hated Keenan. Was he a bad coach? No, he was a good one.

Players despised Ken Hitchcock. Now they comment on how much better he made them, though they hated him at the time.

Players prefer to be comfortable. They don’t like being pushed & told what they don’t want to hear. They don’t like playing defense, if given the opportunity to ignore it & focus on the fun stuff & stats. Provorov still can’t accept he’s not a PP1 guy.

A coach’s job isn’t to coddle his players. It’s to get the best out of them.

I think the fact that Tortorella has admitted he doesn't understand the game and will make no attempt to correct that while also proudly proclaiming he won't bother coaching in any kind of detail with players confirmint he doesn't kinda proves he isn't a good coach at all. Quite the opposite.

He has a talent starved roster and declared that the team doesn't need more talent, it needs PK specialists. Seems bad to me.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I think the fact that Tortorella has admitted he doesn't understand the game and will make no attempt to correct that while also proudly proclaiming he won't bother coaching in any kind of detail with players confirmint he doesn't kinda proves he isn't a good coach at all. Quite the opposite.

He has a talent starved roster and declared that the team doesn't need more talent, it needs PK specialists. Seems bad to me.

You are never not changing what someone said to suit your agenda.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[FLYguy3911]

Servalli was killing the return on his pod. Said they didn't get enough for taking on LA's contracts. He did sound like a Provorov fanboy though with all of the usual excuses for why he wasn't good.

 

[deadhead]

They moved a $6.75M contract and got a 1st and 2nd, and LA only got rid of $3M for Peterson ($2M retained on Provorov), while Walker may be worth his one year salary if he rebounds off his ACL and is a hot commodity at the TDL. Picking up veterans on one year deals (or remaining on their contract) is how you load up for the TDL when you're rebuilding.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You are never not changing what someone said to suit your agenda.

He literally said he doesn't understand offense and wouldnt bother trying to coach it. That's a man who isn't trying to understand it.

Which is hilarious because he's so delusional and arrogant that he thinks he can effectively dream up an effective defense for a thing he doesn't grasp.

 

[04hockey]

He literally said he doesn't understand offense and wouldnt bother trying to coach it. That's a man who isn't trying to understand it.

Which is hilarious because he's so delusional and arrogant that he thinks he can effectively dream up an effective defense for a thing he doesn't grasp.

have a degree in NHL coach psychiatry ?

DEFENSE wins Championships.....what Columbus is doing with their defense is interesting

 

[Rebels57]

Servalli was killing the return on his pod. Said they didn't get enough for taking on LA's contracts. He did sound like a Provorov fanboy though with all of the usual excuses for why he wasn't good.

If you think Provorov is actually good then I can see why you wouldn't love the return. But we all know Provorov kind of..well...sucks.

2nd + Grans + 30% Provorov retention seems to me like a good return for taking on Petersen for 2 years and Walker for 1. Especially since Walker is an easily flippable asset.

 

[BritainStix]

Provorov will be one of the best 2nd pairing defenseman in the league. I have no doubt about that.

The insane way he was given ice time and PP time here killed his value. He will rebound quickly now that he's gone and under a coach that doesn't think he's a f***ing god.

 

[deadhead]

Provorov will be one of the best 2nd pairing defenseman in the league. I have no doubt about that.

The insane way he was given ice time and PP time here killed his value. He will rebound quickly now that he's gone and under a coach that doesn't think he's a f***ing god.

Provorov's struggles had nothing to do with Torts, he's been lost since 2019-20 under 3 different HCs.
He'll be a solid 2nd line D-man, and maybe even a #2 with the right RHD, but that's why the Flyers got a good haul.
But he had no future here, Flyers weren't going to extend him with a 8x8 at 28 years old.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Provorov will be one of the best 2nd pairing defenseman in the league. I have no doubt about that.

The insane way he was given ice time and PP time here killed his value. He will rebound quickly now that he's gone and under a coach that doesn't think he's a f***ing god.

As the resident Provorov stan here, he's the one that thinks he's a god. The coaches may have enabled him but i'm not sure they're to blame outside of the enabling.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Provorov's struggles had nothing to do with Torts, he's been lost since 2019-20 under 3 different HCs.
He'll be a solid 2nd line D-man, and maybe even a #2 with the right RHD, but that's why the Flyers got a good haul.
But he had no future here, Flyers weren't going to extend him with a 8x8 at 28 years old.

He didn't mention Torts by name. You don't need to defend everything that he does. The Flyers have had a parade of crappy coaches during Provorov's time here.

 

[deadhead]

He didn't mention Torts by name. You don't need to defend everything that he does. The Flyers have had a parade of crappy coaches during Provorov's time here.

"The insane way he was given ice time and PP time here killed his value. He will rebound quickly now that he's gone and under a coach that doesn't think he's a f***ing god. "

Was he referencing Yeo?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

"The insane way he was given ice time and PP time here killed his value. He will rebound quickly now that he's gone and under a coach that doesn't think he's a f***ing god. "

Was he referencing Yeo?

No, it's likely referencing the parade of shit coaches that have enabled him since he came to this organization.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I'm sure Ivan's loving Columbus right about now. Werenski already established as the #1. Hot shot prospect in Jiricek. Max term contract to Severson.

 

[BritainStix]

As the resident Provorov stan here, he's the one that thinks he's a god. The coaches may have enabled him but i'm not sure they're to blame outside of the enabling.

Oh absolutely. He needs someone that isn't going to tolerate his bullshit and play him where he belongs. He didn't get that here.