Confirmed with Link: Ivan Provorov traded to CBJ (via LA) - 1st, 2 2nds, Petersen, Walker, Grans to Philly

[deadhead]

This reminds me of the time an attempted dunk was made about how I love offensive hockey and that sorrow was expressed towards me because the offensive stalwarts in Toronto, New Jersey, and the Oilers didn’t make the Conference Final.

Now when that dunk was looked at we saw that Toronto and New Jersey were two of the final four teams in the East. They finished with the 4th and 5th best xG/60 in the NHL respectively. Now it got fun when we took a look at the two teams that made the ECF and where they finished… Carolina (3rd) and Florida (1st).

That was fun. It’s a real shame that there only two teams make a conference final.

Except that Carolina's offense is built off their defense and forecheck, not off pampering skill players. Their game is to take away the puck and flip the ice.

And Florida became a more physical offensive team when they added Tkachuk, they still gamble more than most, but now it's more about getting players to the net instead of skating around trying to make plays.

Toronto, Edmonton and NJ are more "figure skater" type offenses.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Except that Carolina's offense is built off their defense and forecheck, not off pampering skill players. Their game is to take away the puck and flip the ice.

And Florida became a more physical offensive team when they added Tkachuk, they still gamble more than most, but now it's more about getting players to the net instead of skating around trying to make plays.

Toronto, Edmonton and NJ are more "figure skater" type offenses.

You sure love changing definitions and moving goal posts, don’t you?

The best offensive teams were the ones that were left. Offense is offense. You’re the one that likes to act like we all want a figure skating team when in reality it’s just a straw man.

It’s ok to admit that your dunk fell flat.

 

[Curufinwe]

 

[Tripod]

80% of Flyers fans would circle jerk over having "figure skaters" Kane and Hyman as Flyers wingers. Look at how they salivated over MacEwen and he is trash.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

post of the godam century...

nice BURNNN....

 

[deadhead]

You sure love changing definitions and moving goal posts, don’t you?

The best offensive teams were the ones that were left. Offense is offense. You’re the one that likes to act like we all want a figure skating team when in reality it’s just a straw man.

It’s ok to admit that your dunk fell flat.

Offense is not offense, how you generate offense matters.
The playoffs are more physical, refs do swallow their whistles, and you're likely to face hot goalies (unnatural selection).
So teams that can be physical on offense and create dirty goals are more likely to produce goals in the post-season, talent level held equal.

80% of Flyers fans would circle jerk over having "figure skaters" Kane and Hyman as Flyers wingers. Look at how they salivated over MacEwen and he is trash.

Think I'd prefer Tkachuk, even over Cap'n's objections.
Kane is just too f--- crazy.

 

[Asnito]

 

[Beef Invictus]

In the 18 seasons since the lockout of 04/05, including this season:

The highest scoring regular season team has won the Cup twice:

TB in 19/20 & PIT in 16/17.

The team with the least goals allowed in the regular season has won once:

DET in 07/08.

The team with the largest regular season goal differential has won twice:

CHI in 12/13 & DET in 07/08.


There’s no magic formula here, but to claim so assertively that offense is how you win the Cup, you’d think the best offensive team in the league each season would show better than 2 Cups in the last 18 seasons.

Now THIS is disingenuous.

You know, I bet there are other good offenses every year besides the top ones. I also bet you know that.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I keep hearing about how the playoffs are more physical and these silly teams with their good offenses won't be able to score. And year after year, they do.

 

[baudib1]

Dubas was supposed to be this stats nerd when he spent most of his tenure adding veteran gritty guys. Wayne Simmonds, Luke Schenn (who played well!). Guys with Cups like ROR and ZAR. Mark Giordano.

If the Leafs had won it would have been because they adapted a new style and learned to play tough. If they don’t win it’s because they’re figure skaters.

 

[Columbus Hockey Dad]

I keep hearing about how the playoffs are more physical and these silly teams with their good offenses won't be able to score. And year after year, they do.

This is because, and I know it may come as a shock to some, but it IS possible for goal scorers and playmakers to also play physical! It’s not an either or. So give me the guy who actually has talent and can hit or be coached to be physical over the physical guy with no talent.

 

[deadhead]

This is because, and I know it may come as a shock to some, but it IS possible for goal scorers and playmakers to also play physical! It’s not an either or. So give me the guy who actually has talent and can hit or be coached to be physical over the physical guy with no talent.

It's also possible for smaller skilled players to play defense, they can back check and stick check and get back into position.

ROR was a good addition for Toronto, but they never were able to put together energy lines to balance their scoring lines.
One reason was some forwards simply couldn't duplicate their regular season production in the POs, Bunting, Jarnkrok, Kerfoot.
And they lacked depth on defense, Giordano was at the end, Holl was more of a journeyman, as is L Schenn.

Toronto could never develop the Palat (#208), Killorn (#77), Cerilli (#72), Gourde (UDFA), Colton (#118), T Johnson (UDFA) low cost middle six forwards that TB had behind Stamkos, Point and Kucherov. So they were always playing whack a mole when it came to addressing holes.

 

[kudymen]

Offense is not offense

Hehehe. Peak

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Now THIS is disingenuous.

You know, I bet there are other good offenses every year besides the top ones. I also bet you know that.

If the best scoring team in the NHL each season has won 2 Cups in the last 18 seasons, does that not imply there’s more to winning the Cup than simply scoring?

 

[Beef Invictus]

This is because, and I know it may come as a shock to some, but it IS possible for goal scorers and playmakers to also play physical! It’s not an either or. So give me the guy who actually has talent and can hit or be coached to be physical over the physical guy with no talent.

It's fairly amazing how the Flyers seem to think these things are completely exclusive of each other.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If the best scoring team in the NHL each season has won 2 Cups in the last 18 seasons, does that not imply there’s more to winning the Cup than simply scoring?

I know you know about the nature of hockey and its variance. So I know you're constructing this bad faith argument deliberately.

 

[Tripod]

No one wants only offense....or only defense. To want that is stupid.

It's why having a coach who ONLY wants to focus on defense is also dumb.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I’ll take all offense. Skating, and scoring.

This has been one of the most boring teams for a decade. No young stars to get excited about.

Watching the NYI or more try hard garbage for another 10 years sounds horrific. The point is to be entertained, and they are incredibly dull.

Gaslighting the fanbase that is all well is the new Comcast approach, but who’s going to fall for that shit.

 

[bobbythebrain]

No one wants only offense....or only defense. To want that is stupid.

It's why having a coach who ONLY wants to focus on defense is also dumb.

LA won 2 cups without scoring and focusing on defense. Was it dumb to win 2 cups?

 

[FlyerNutter]

LA won 2 cups without scoring and focusing on defense. Was it dumb to win 2 cups?

Thing is. LA had prime Kopitar, and Doughty.

Carter, Richards, etc

They played a Darryl Sutter style but the talent was very much present on that team.

The Flyers are very much going to try the same approach with a bunch of guys better suited to a secondary role. This joke of a scouting department isn’t finding elite players unless they are gifted a no miss prospect. This franchise needs a generational guy to pull itself out of the gutter. I firmly believe that.

It’s why personally, I’d rather at least be entertained the next few years.

 

[GKJ]

LA had a lot more scoring in 14 than 12. In 2012, they were running out Dwight King and Jordan Nolan. They won 2 Cups 2 different ways, because Quick was awful in 2014 until the finals.

 

[Tripod]

LA won 2 cups without scoring and focusing on defense. Was it dumb to win 2 cups?

No scoring? In 2012 playoffs:

Kopitar PPG
Brown PPG
Doughty 66 point pace
Richard's 62 point pace
Williams 62 point pace
Carter 53 point pace

Pitt and Philly had the highest goals/game because neither was playing any defense. And we all know that series was an outlier....4.33 and 3.73 g/g.

Next highest g/game? LA at 2.85...then NJ at 2.46, Fla 2.43.

So excluding the outliers, LA clearly had the best offense that playoffs....and the best defense.

oh, and in 2014, they had the top g/game in tbe playoffs.

Let's not pretend they ONLY had defense. Both playoffs wins they had the best offense. Funny how people ignore that.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Sutter’s Kings were the Corsi Gold Standard. They lead the league in raw 5v5 CF% for 4 consecutive seasons. And the previous year, they finished 2nd to Detroit by a minuscule margin.

 

[GKJ]

Sutter’s Kings were the Corsi Gold Standard. They lead the league in raw 5v5 CF% for 4 consecutive seasons. And the previous year, they finished 2nd to Detroit by a minuscule margin.

And missed the playoffs in one of those years somehow

 

[deadhead]

It's not offense v defense, it's how you play the game.

Carolina is a defense first team, I don't hear much criticism about them, outside of Aho, who are their offensive stars?
But they play a fast, aggressive forecheck with mobile D-men who both defend and handle the puck. And that allows them to control play.

Vegas is a physical team, leads the league in shots blocked, they have some good offensive players, but even Eichel isn't an elite offensive player.
Dallas was also a defense first team.

You can generate offense off good defense and a strong forecheck, you need D-men who can drive play, forwards with speed and grit who can cause turnovers and keep the cycle going, and some guys who can shoot the puck when linemates create opportunities.

We're not talking Islanders style, that's passe, but an up tempo, aggressive but fundamentally sound approach.