Interesting Marner note

[Arthur Morgan]

30 other GM’s managed to miss the 50% of the cap on 4 forwards trap but not Dubas and we are paying the price now

God let it go. I assume if it was known the cap wasnt going to rise they likely wouldnt have signed Tavares. how was Dubas suppose to know covid would shut down the league and basically the salary cap as well.
I mean if u wanna shit on Dubas thats fine but his contracts weren't as bad as people say okay Marner prob got between 1-1.5m too much. Tavares was a FA signing who signed for less than he was offered around the league.
Matthews is fine just the term was too low.

If covid never happened we could have had up to an extra 9m by now which would like likely gone a long way and the BIG signing wouldn't have been so critical

Bettman expects salary cap to rise for 2018-19

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman projects the salary cap will be between $78 million and $82 million in 2018-19, an increase from the current salary cap of $75 million.

www.espn.com

if you look that was written Dec 8, 2017 and projected the cap to rise as high as 82m
well it's 2022 and the cap is 82.5m

It's clearly bad luck. this happened at the worse time possible for Toronto and all their big signings still carry almost the exact high percentage of cap. it's suppose to lower over the years and get better and better and better every year.

Hindsight is 20/20

 

[Zybalto]

God let it go. I assume if it was known the cap wasnt going to rise they likely wouldnt have signed Tavares. how was Dubas suppose to know covid would shut down the league and basically the salary cap as well.
I mean if u wanna shit on Dubas thats fine but his contracts weren't as bad as people say okay Marner prob got between 1-1.5m too much. Tavares was a FA signing who signed for less than he was offered around the league.
Matthews is fine just the term was too low.

If covid never happened we could have had up to an extra 9m by now which would like likely gone a long way and the BIG signing wouldn't have been so critical

Bettman expects salary cap to rise for 2018-19

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman projects the salary cap will be between $78 million and $82 million in 2018-19, an increase from the current salary cap of $75 million.

www.espn.com

if you look that was written Dec 8, 2017 and projected the cap to rise as high as 82m
well it's 2022 and the cap is 82.5m

It's clearly bad luck. this happened at the worse time possible for Toronto and all their big signings still carry almost the exact high percentage of cap. it's suppose to lower over the years and get better and better and better every year.

Hindsight is 20/20

Yup,

The last pre-covid cap projection put out by the NHL was for the 2020-2021 season at 84-88.2 million with revenues surging.

It would probably be around 90-94 million heading into this season and we would have seen signifigantly higher contracts around the league.

We all knew the cap would screw the Leafs but this is a new twist. Im sure the Toronto sports media has done a great job highlighting this.

In hindsight, just looking at cap%, the big 4 would all be getting around an average of a million less if this was known.

 

[francis246]

Yeah, I do think he does things differently.

Mitch Marner is going to make north of $125 million dollars in less than 12 years… there’s not much difference between $110 million and $125 million in regards to setting your family up for generational wealth.

Not everyone looks at it as stupid as f***… because life is not always just about more money… particularly after you’re set to gain minimum $100 million dollars.

lol, save the righteous act. When you're a millionaire, the money matters. to the average person there's not a difference. We have no idea what missing out on $15 million means for a millionaire. We can't conceptualize it because it's not something we will ever be fortunate enough to deal with. But yes, $15 million is a shit ton of money to walk away from. So no I don't think he does anything different. Because at the end of the day, you need to look out for yourself. You will never please the fans. People would be upset with 9.5, people will be upset with 10.93. Plus the team put that number in front of him, why would he say no? It's a business and Marner knows he did whats best for himself and if you want to hate him for it, go ahead but he really didn't do anything wrong, people need to get over it.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Yup,

The last pre-covid cap projection put out by the NHL was for the 2020-2021 season at 84-88.2 million with revenues surging.

It would probably be around 90-94 million heading into this season and we would have seen signifigantly higher contracts around the league.

We all knew the cap would screw the Leafs but this is a new twist. Im sure the Toronto sports media has done a great job highlighting this.

In hindsight, just looking at cap%, the big 4 would all be getting around an average of a million less if this was known.

Yeah we knew it would screw them over but we figured it would be alright with the cap rising every season. I know cost goes up on contracts but be enough money there for alot better depth than what we are currently dealing with.

 

[cannucky]

Yeah, that's why a top 6 forward in Bunting and top 4 d-man in Giordano have a combined 1.75M cap hit

And 49% the cap tied up in 4 players , 71% in 7 players but don't let that deter you from your narrative . On the bright side he's buying winners and delivering big results in the postsea..........oh wait , never mind , forget I said that part .

one of the few not doing it right now, and has done it a handful of times in what, 5 years? But sure.

Hasn't corrected his mistake's in the what 5 years either now has he ? still 49% in 4 players now 71% in 7 players eh , but sure if you say so .

 

[notbias]

Hasn't corrected his mistake's in the what 5 years either now has he ? still 49% in 4 players now 71% in 7 players eh , but sure if you say so .

You know it is a strong argument when you bring up a different argument to support it

 

[cannucky]

And 49% the cap tied up in 4 players , 71% in 7 players but don't let that deter you from your narrative . On the bright side he's buying winners and delivering big results in the postsea..........oh wait , never mind , forget I said that part .


Hasn't corrected his mistake's in the what 5 years either now has he ? still 49% in 4 players now 71% in 7 players eh , but sure if you say so .

At least he saved 300k by dumping Campbell for Murray so there's that , maybe surrounding the superstars with a revolving door of cast offs is the way to build a successful team , it sure worked for .................? oh yeah nobody but thats what changing the game is all about . "a slow patient 5 year rebuild from within" remember when management said those words after tanking ? I do .

You know it is a strong argument when you bring up a different argument to support it

its the original arguement of Dubas overpaying his players thatbyou responded too . Focus much ? perhaps it's time for a few caps of focusin ?

 

[cannucky]

God let it go. I assume if it was known the cap wasnt going to rise they likely wouldnt have signed Tavares. how was Dubas suppose to know covid would shut down the league and basically the salary cap as well.
I mean if u wanna shit on Dubas thats fine but his contracts weren't as bad as people say okay Marner prob got between 1-1.5m too much. Tavares was a FA signing who signed for less than he was offered around the league.
Matthews is fine just the term was too low.

If covid never happened we could have had up to an extra 9m by now which would like likely gone a long way and the BIG signing wouldn't have been so critical

Bettman expects salary cap to rise for 2018-19

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman projects the salary cap will be between $78 million and $82 million in 2018-19, an increase from the current salary cap of $75 million.

www.espn.com

if you look that was written Dec 8, 2017 and projected the cap to rise as high as 82m
well it's 2022 and the cap is 82.5m

It's clearly bad luck. this happened at the worse time possible for Toronto and all their big signings still carry almost the exact high percentage of cap. it's suppose to lower over the years and get better and better and better every year.

Hindsight is 20/20

It was bad mangement at the time and it is bad management now , Stop trying to deflect from the fact that your wonderboy short cut the rebuild to take a shot at glory and missed . There was no place in our 5 year patient rebuild for an 11 million dollar John Tavares . We had a better team without him and would be looking at a much better cap structure without setting that payroll bar so high , he has done nothing to correct his actual mistake and taken zero responsibility for making it so you let go of your nonsensical spinning of the truth .

 

[Dekes For Days]

its the original arguement of Dubas overpaying his players thatbyou responded too

Just because a team has a lot of cap invested into top players, it doesn't mean they overpay. Tampa invested 72% of the cap into 7 players, for the record.

There was no place in our 5 year patient rebuild for an 11 million dollar John Tavares . We had a better team without him

We weren't in a 5 year patient rebuild. The rebuild had ended 2 years before Tavares was signed, and we are a much better team with him.

 

[cannucky]

How many players making north of 10M are there on the Avs ? Blue's ? Lightning ? Capitals ? Zero and that's your Dubas era cup champions all 5 years figure it out eh !

 

[Notsince67]

I remember reporting that both CBJ and NYI were prepared to offer the McDavid contract to Marner and also that he was purely using them as a negotiating tactic.

Dubas did well then

 

[Dekes For Days]

How many players making north of 10M are there on the Avs ? Blue's ? Lightning ? Capitals ?

Who cares? 10m is an arbitrary mark that seems designed to include the Leaf players and exclude the 9-10m players on those teams that were signed under different cap environments.

 

[cannucky]

Just because a team has a lot of cap invested into top players, it doesn't mean they overpay. Tampa invested 72% of the cap into 7 players, for the record.

We weren't in a 5 year patient rebuild. The rebuild had ended 2 years before Tavares was signed, and we are a much better team with him.

are you on some sort of mind altering substance ? We hired Shanny in April of 2014 ,He sent "Slow Patient Rebuild " letter out in 2015 drafted Mathews in 2016 as the first step forward in the rebuild after the tank year to get him and signed Tavares in 2018 , get a clue bud .

 

[cannucky]

Who cares? 10m is an arbitrary mark that seems designed to include the Leaf players and exclude the 9-10m players on those teams that were signed under different cap environments.

almost all if not all of the 9+ million dollar players you are referring to were signed during the Dubas era so at least base your nonsense on the truth . If I wanted to be completely exclusive I could have said making north of 9.5million and the answer would still have been the same .

 

[Dekes For Days]

We hired Shanny in April of 2014 ,He sent "Slow Patient Rebuild " letter out in 2015

Yeah, the original plan was to have a slower rebuild and to prepare the fans for that. Then we got the 1st overall pick and got the best goal-scorer in the league, Marner and Nylander came bursting onto the scene, Lou traded a 1st and 2nd round pick for a starting goaltender, and the rebuild was over. We made the playoffs ever since, and Lou spent money on competitive-focused UFAs, bought rentals, and kept own rentals for 2 years prior to Tavares being signed. The rebuild was long done by then.

almost all if not all of the 9+ million dollar players you are referring to were signed during the Dubas era

1. That doesn't change the fact that it's an irrelevant and arbitrary mark.
2. Most of those players were signed under a different cap than our players, or in a different cap environment post-pandemic and post-stagnation.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

It was bad mangement at the time and it is bad management now , Stop trying to deflect from the fact that your wonderboy short cut the rebuild to take a shot at glory and missed . There was no place in our 5 year patient rebuild for an 11 million dollar John Tavares . We had a better team without him and would be looking at a much better cap structure without setting that payroll bar so high , he has done nothing to correct his actual mistake and taken zero responsibility for making it so you let go of your nonsensical spinning of the truth .

its only bad now because they have no cap which wouldnt have been an issue if there was no covid shutting down the NHL.
Im not sitting here praising management Im not impressed with whats gone down but people gotta let this over paid crap go. was bad timing Leafs werent the only teams in on Tavares
Matthews: contract was fine just too low term
Tavares: could have gotten more
Marner: between 1 and 1.5m over paid
not really that horrible and if the cap went up as expected the 82.5m salary cap we have now would have been where we are now back in 2018.
Flat-Cap screwed the Leafs

Rebuild was over the day we won Matthews.... They made the playoffs that year

 

[WillyC]

lol, save the righteous act. When you're a millionaire, the money matters. to the average person there's not a difference. We have no idea what missing out on $15 million means for a millionaire. We can't conceptualize it because it's not something we will ever be fortunate enough to deal with. But yes, $15 million is a shit ton of money to walk away from. So no I don't think he does anything different. Because at the end of the day, you need to look out for yourself. You will never please the fans. People would be upset with 9.5, people will be upset with 10.93. Plus the team put that number in front of him, why would he say no? It's a business and Marner knows he did whats best for himself and if you want to hate him for it, go ahead but he really didn't do anything wrong, people need to get over it.

It’s not a righteous act… it just happens sometimes.

You are correct, I don’t know what it’s like to miss out on 15 million dollars… however, I do know what it’s like to earn 6 figures and then take a job for less than 50k by choice.

As I said, life is not always about more money… note, I said, if Mitch knew then what he knows now.

45-110 million or 60-125 million… doesn’t change your lifestyle that much.

You are also correct though.., some folks on this board would still be whining and crying @ 9.5 million

 

[francis246]

It’s not a righteous act… it just happens sometimes.

You are correct, I don’t know what it’s like to miss out on 15 million dollars… however, I do know what it’s like to earn 6 figures and then take a job for less than 50k by choice.

As I said, life is not always about more money… note, I said, if Mitch knew then what he knows now.

45-110 million or 60-125 million… doesn’t change your lifestyle that much.

You are also correct though.., some folks on this board would still be whining and crying @ 9.5 million

You’re right, money isn’t everything. But to some people want to fully maximize their earning potential and there’s nothing wrong with that either. You never know when and if the well will dry up. All it takes is one hit or one toe pick and your career is over.

Also Marner is taking heat for accepting a deal that was put in front of him. 95% of the blame should be on Dubas. They put the 10.93 contract offer in front of Marner. All he did was say, okay sure.

 

[cannucky]

Oh also Tampa does not have 72% in 7 players they have 54.3 % in 5 players but if you want to add the next 2 highest then it is 65.9% in 7 players which is $4M+ less than our 71% , enough for a pretty good player instead of the cast offs we have been cycling through .

 

[KitchenSink]

Didn't Marner end up signing 1 day into training camp? Even if there were some legit offer sheets presented earlier in the summer wouldnt those teams have moved on and spent that cap space by the time Marner actually signed.

 

[cannucky]

Oh also Tampa does not have 72% in 7 players they have 54.3 % in 5 players but if you want to add the next 2 highest then it is 65.9% which is 4M+ less than our 71% enough for a pretty good player instead of the cast offs we have been cycling through .

its only bad now because they have no cap which wouldnt have been an issue if there was no covid shutting down the NHL.
Im not sitting here praising management Im not impressed with whats gone down but people gotta let this over paid crap go. was bad timing Leafs werent the only teams in on Tavares
Matthews: contract was fine just too low term
Tavares: could have gotten more
Marner: between 1 and 1.5m over paid
not really that horrible and if the cap went up as expected the 82.5m salary cap we have now would have been where we are now back in 2018.
Flat-Cap screwed the Leafs

Rebuild was over the day we won Matthews.... They made the playoffs that year

No the glimmer of a rebuild started the day we drafted Marner , we then tanked to add Mathews and made the first round , what growth have we shown since ? Creating a new high water mark by paying a player we didn't need 11 million dollars killed the progress we had made to get to that point , we have been bleeding players , prospects and picks ever since .Whos cares if other teams were in on him good for them that has zero bearing on the path we were on and the hard left turn we took with him . We made the playoffs with the most points of any Leaf team up to that point the second year of Mathews and the year before JT , we were on an upword trajectory as a team of young players who were learning to play together then the short cut and we have been first round flatlined ever since . We can't get over the hump because we can't get the players to get us over the hump . Stop with the revisionist history the facts are the facts JT was the mistake that stalled this team .

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Oh also Tampa does not have 72% in 7 players they have 54.3 % in 5 players but if you want to add the next 2 highest then it is 65.9% which is 4M+ less than our 71% enough for a pretty good player instead of the cast offs we have been cycling through .

No the glimmer of a rebuild started the day we drafted Marner , we then tanked to add Mathews and made the first round , what growth have we shown since ? Creating a new high water mark by paying a player we didn't need 11 million dollars killed the progress we had made to get to that point , we have been bleeding players , prospects and picks ever since .Whos cares if other teams were in on him good for them that has zero bearing on the path we were on and the hard left turn we took with him . We made the playoffs with the most points of any Leaf team up to that point the second year of Mathews and the year before JT , we were on an upword trajectory as a team of young players who were learning to play together then the short cut and we have been first round flatlined ever since . We can't get over the hump because we can't get the players to get us over the hump . Stop with the revisionist history the facts are the facts JT was the mistake that stalled this team .

rebuilding teams dont make the playoffs every year
the rebuild started before we drafted Marner and ended the season we got Matthews and made the playoffs.

look we added Tavares and we were a better team because of it. it has aged poorly with the flat cap you can choose to believe it wasnt a good move at the time or not. we knew life would get little tougher but we didnt expect the cap to literally not rise anymore which made things go from tougher to extremely difficult.
could and should have had up to an extra 10m that would have gone along way to helping this team get better,

who knows how things would have played out if we never signed Tavares. maybe Kadri would have gotten suspended again anyways and then traded,and with the extra cap space maybe we used it on other mistakes and we end up in the exact same situation as we are or even worse,

not many people were against Tavares signing here most thought it was a great move. but again the cap literally not growing in that time made it worse than it really was but hey you can choose to believe what u said above

 

[Arthur Morgan]

are you on some sort of mind altering substance ? We hired Shanny in April of 2014 ,He sent "Slow Patient Rebuild " letter out in 2015 drafted Mathews in 2016 as the first step forward in the rebuild after the tank year to get him and signed Tavares in 2018 , get a clue bud .

are there any playoff teams rebuilding right now? even LA who was the closest to rebuilding just added Fiala. rebuild looks over to me. development stage + playoff time for them or thats the goal

 

[Racer88]

30 other GMs don’t have an Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner on their team.

How has that worked out for us so far

 

[William Hylander]

Personally I would say something to the tune, of if an offersheet is presented, we will review it and choose the best option for the team.

He actually did say this during the Marner negotiations. Dubas seemed to be hypocritical on his previous stance.

Dubas was confronted about "we can and we will". IIRC I think and he changed it up saying: there's no guarantee we would match any offersheet contract. We will evaluate any offersheet to see if we match it or let players go for the compensation."

Toronto Sun article about this