Interesting Marner note

[egd27]

Since when are negotiating tactics a conspiracy theory? 13x7 is the conspiracy theory.

more like a Fairy Tale

 

[CapspaceKiller]

Darren Dregor told me it was 7 X 13.5....he swears by it as Paul Marner points a gun at him

 

[Gabriel426]

Rantanen is a fan comparable. Marner himself said Matthews was his comparable. He out performed Matthews on the ELC. It was easy for him to say look at my numbers and look at Matthews numbers. Again it’s up to the team to be strong enough to not give in. The leafs weren’t. But Marner has proven he is well worth the cap hit he’s received. Should the leafs have paid him that much? Probably not.

I’ll repeat it again, the NHL and their salary cap sucks. These players should be making way more.

As much as I hate the cap, I think it is keeping teams(more than half the league) a float.
The NHL should have a luxury tax like the NBA. For teams who are earning more to pay for more but this tax can only apply for players who's been developed(at least played 3 seasons) on the same team.

 

[francis246]

As much as I hate the cap, I think it is keeping teams(more than half the league) a float.
The NHL should have a luxury tax like the NBA. For teams who are earning more to pay for more but this tax can only apply for players who's been developed(at least played 3 seasons) on the same team.

Agreed, almost a hybrid between the NFL franchise tag and the NBA luxury tax. I think the players in the next CBA negotiation need to make adjusting the perimeters of the salary cap a priority.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Marner got what he thought he was worth. I mean good for him but I was surprised to see how surprised he was when fans were for the most part no longer on his side.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Rantanen is a fan comparable. Marner himself said Matthews was his comparable. He out performed Matthews on the ELC. It was easy for him to say look at my numbers and look at Matthews numbers. Again it’s up to the team to be strong enough to not give in. The leafs weren’t. But Marner has proven he is well worth the cap hit he’s received. Should the leafs have paid him that much? Probably not.

I’ll repeat it again, the NHL and their salary cap sucks. These players should be making way more.

Well, I'll agree that I'm also against the NHL having such a hard cap.

I was ok with it at the beginning (give everyone an even playing field). But it now infuriates me. Leaf fans pay exorbitant ticket/canteen prices that get revenue shared to poor teams to buy players away from the leafs. All while their fans get $40 tickets and $4 beers. It's bullshit. I'm surprised big market fans don't make a bigger stink about it.

 

[Gabriel426]

Well, I'll agree that I'm also against the NHL having such a hard cap.

I was ok with it at the beginning (give everyone an even playing field). But it now infuriates me. Leaf fans pay exorbitant ticket/canteen prices that get revenue shared to poor teams to buy players away from the leafs. All while their fans get $40 tickets and $4 beers. It's bullshit. I'm surprised big market fans don't make a bigger stink about it.

I think if most teams are in the black, the cap is fine. The problem is most teams are in the red, and they are in the red for a long period until they are competitive than they are in the red again if their teams suck.
Expanding the league is fine but they also need to promote Hockey in those cities. Thats something I failed to see with the NHL. I had friends a bit younger than me(in their 30s) born and raised in Atlanta, and they don't even remembered Thrashers were there. Thats a massive fail in the NHL and Hockey. Then again, Hockey is also a very expensive sports to play.

 

[therealkoho]

"Marner isn't overpaid. It's just that all of his direct comparables are underpaid." Interesting take.

Sometimes I'm literally bewildered by what I read on these forums...

You're not alone, take this thread for example.........

It's not even 3 years ago that the Marner situation unfolded and we have several disparate and divergent versions of what, where and why, went on!

I'm sure this thread will soon turn into the "MM is a playoff failure" thread any minute

 

[budzz]

It was reported well before Marner signed


The Columbus offer was 12.5m, which David Pagnotta reported at the time.

Thanks for the link Tak. I do remember some rumblings at the time but didn't remember seeing that posted anywhere. My point was it was getting down to the wire and if there were serious offer sheet suggestions, it definitely would affect his price tag. As others have stated based on his numbers he had actually outscored Matthews and his agent had every right to use the comparable at the time. Whether anyone thinks he was overpaid is a different argument, but the OT I posted put it in print is all.

 

[Americanadian]

I now think Kekalainen floats out ridiculous numbers but doesn't offer them.

 

[therealkoho]

Rantanen is a fan comparable. Marner himself said Matthews was his comparable. He out performed Matthews on the ELC. It was easy for him to say look at my numbers and look at Matthews numbers. Again it’s up to the team to be strong enough to not give in. The leafs weren’t. But Marner has proven he is well worth the cap hit he’s received. Should the leafs have paid him that much? Probably not.

I’ll repeat it again, the NHL and their salary cap sucks. These players should be making way more.

JMO but none of the 3 should've got the money they wanted at the shorter terms. It should have been made clear that if you want the money than it has to be 8 years.

I would've let Willie stew in his own juices over in Sweden and not given in to his demands, it set a poor precedent to the others.

 

[BigBlu]

Calgary is desperate. They are embarrassed. They are desperate. They want to make a splash.

They need a center……

I’d like to swing a deal involving Mitch Marner. He can be their new Johnny Gaudreau.

We get some cap relief,, we get Mangiapane, we get some pics, we get more+++, we absolutely try to fleece them on the deal.

We get value back from Marner as if he was a # 1 Center, instead of a #1 winger…. And we get a reset. We don’t just run it back the same. We remove the shackles, admittedly self-imposed, from our GM’s hands.

 

[Gabriel426]

Calgary is desperate. They are embarrassed. They are desperate. They want to make a splash.

They need a center……

I’d like to swing a deal involving Mitch Marner. He can be their new Johnny Gaudreau.

We get some cap relief,, we get Mangiapane, we get some pics, we get more+++, we absolutely try to fleece them on the deal.

We get value back from Marner as if he was a # 1 Center, instead of a #1 winger…. And we get a reset. We don’t just run it back the same. We remove the shackles, admittedly self-imposed, from our GM’s hands.

Trade them JT for Tkachuk and call it a day.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I now think Kekalainen floats out ridiculous numbers but doesn't offer them.

Notice how when there are rumors like this for other players, they're just "rumors" and rarely turn out to be true? But when they're about Marner being given a 7x12.5 offer sheet, it's "fact"?

It's infuriating.

 

[Racer88]

Yeah, if only Dubas had just been psychic and cited a nonexistent and unforeseen once-in-a-century global pandemic and all of the unknown resulting impacts of it, the agents and players would have been perfectly fine being paid less than their market value despite a cap that was projected to massively rise!

30 other GM’s managed to miss the 50% of the cap on 4 forwards trap but not Dubas and we are paying the price now

 

[Mitchy]

Never underestimate the ability of Kyle Dubas to overpay his players !

Yeah, that's why a top 6 forward in Bunting and top 4 d-man in Giordano have a combined 1.75M cap hit

 

[therealkoho]

30 other GM’s managed to miss the 50% of the cap on 4 forwards trap but not Dubas and we are paying the price now

Not only did they not have our guys but the timing played into it as well, that said, the Willie error had a lot to do with the overpays to the other guys, or the too short terms, depending on your point of view which will mean Dubas or somebody else is going to have do this all over again very soon.

 

[Racer88]

Not only did they not have our guys but the timing played into it as well, that said, the Willie error had a lot to do with the overpays to the other guys, or the too short terms, depending on your point of view which will mean Dubas or somebody else is going to have do this all over again very soon.

I’m ok with Willy, it was the Tavares signing that sank this boat

 

[Superstar]

I remember reporting that both CBJ and NYI were prepared to offer the McDavid contract to Marner and also that he was purely using them as a negotiating tactic.

There's a huge difference between $12.5 million per for a UFA and $12.5 million per plus 4 first round picks for an RFA offer-sheet. I don't think the CBJ were giving that much away for Marner. I don't remember any concrete details with figures ever came out regarding a Marner offer-sheet.

 

[WillyC]

Marner got what he thought he was worth. I mean good for him but I was surprised to see how surprised he was when fans were for the most part no longer on his side.

I think if Mitch could do his deal over… he’d be @ 9.5
However, he knows he’s one of the very best hockey playmakers in the world… and he let his agent take the Leafs for huge money.

Knowing what he knows now and how things unfolded with fans… I’m sure he would have stepped in and adjusted the deal.

Either way, it is all good because Mitch is likely a lifetime Maple Leaf… we just need that magic happen in the playoffs.

October can’t come fast enough.

 

[WillyC]

30 other GM’s managed to miss the 50% of the cap on 4 forwards trap but not Dubas and we are paying the price now

30 other GMs don’t have an Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner on their team.

 

[meefer]

Calgary is desperate. They are embarrassed. They are desperate. They want to make a splash.

They need a center……

I’d like to swing a deal involving Mitch Marner. He can be their new Johnny Gaudreau.

We get some cap relief,, we get Mangiapane, we get some pics, we get more+++, we absolutely try to fleece them on the deal.

We get value back from Marner as if he was a # 1 Center, instead of a #1 winger…. And we get a reset. We don’t just run it back the same. We remove the shackles, admittedly self-imposed, from our GM’s hands.

When reading this all I could hear was the voice of Galadriel from LOTR. You know of what I speak.

 

[francis246]

I think if Mitch could do his deal over… he’d be @ 9.5
However, he knows he’s one of the very best hockey playmakers in the world… and he let his agent take the Leafs for huge money.

Knowing what he knows now and how things unfolded with fans… I’m sure he would have stepped in and adjusted the deal.

Either way, it is all good because Mitch is likely a lifetime Maple Leaf… we just need that magic happen in the playoffs.

October can’t come fast enough.

Do you actually believe that Marner would take less if he had a do over? Hell no, he’d take his 10.93 over and over again and I don’t blame him. A lot of fans call players greedy but we’ve never been in that position. You’re trying to create generational wealth and maximize the amount of money you can make. You’re going to fight for every penny you think you deserve.

Taking less than you deserve isn’t noble, it’s stupid as f*** from a business standpoint. Players are a brand and their own entity.

 

[WillyC]

Do you actually believe that Marner would take less if he had a do over? Hell no, he’d take his 10.93 over and over again and I don’t blame him. A lot of fans call players greedy but we’ve never been in that position. You’re trying to create generational wealth and maximize the amount of money you can make. You’re going to fight for every penny you think you deserve.

Taking less than you deserve isn’t noble, it’s stupid as f*** from a business standpoint. Players are a brand and their own entity.

Yeah, I do think he does things differently.

Mitch Marner is going to make north of $125 million dollars in less than 12 years… there’s not much difference between $110 million and $125 million in regards to setting your family up for generational wealth.

Not everyone looks at it as stupid as f***… because life is not always just about more money… particularly after you’re set to gain minimum $100 million dollars.

 

[Menzinger]

Are you going on record as saying that basically the entire hockey universe didn't regard Nylander and Marner as overpays? I think even Matthews was seen as a little high at the time considering what teams like Tampa were paying.

The cap doesn't go up during recession. That's just known and they did a CBA and clawed back the cap just a few years prior to the Nonis stint. Remember? Sub prime mortgage 2008 -->

Actually it tends to. The cap had a small increase between 08-09 at $56.7mil to $56.8 mil during the 09-10 season. And then increased up to $59.4 mil in 10-11. And then all the way up to $64.3 mil by the next season.

COVID was a unique/unpredictable impact on the league finances beacuse it impacted gate revenues in every market in the league all at once.