Confirmed with Link: Ho-Sang PTO discussion

[Sypher04]

If his camp continues to go well, I’d be like:

we like what we’ve seen so far Josh. Give us a 2-3 year commitment and we will do everything in our power to help you become the player we both know you can and want to be. We cannot afford to pay you a large amount but we are prepared to give you a 1way deal and opportunity with some of the best players in the league.

If he won’t go for multi year I’d still take the chance on him, but I’d be trying to lock him in for at least a couple on the cheap

 

[nobody]

How much are you signing HoSang for?
Have you considered the 175K of dead cap by demoting Engvall?

 

[egd27]

View attachment 467227

Ok, so you also demoted Sandin since your first post. That makes the cap work

 

[nobody]

Ok, so you also demoted Sandin since your first post. That makes the cap work

I said Sandin will start in the minors most likely since he was the worst between him, Lilly and Dermy.

 

[egd27]

I said Sandin will start in the minors most likely since he was the worst between him, Lilly and Dermy.

fair enough.....i missed that at the bottom of the post

 

[stickty111]

I said Sandin will start in the minors most likely since he was the worst between him, Lilly and Dermy.

Maybe but personally all 3 have played good enough to make the team as 5-6-7.

 

[stickty111]

View attachment 467227

Honestly it's not the worst idea to give Simmonds away and get all 3 young d man on the team.

 

[SI90]

I really hope this kid gets a legit shot. When he was with the isles people made jokes and it was easy to get on the bandwagon against him. He’s honestly a really good kid. He was excellent with the fans and especially kids on Long Island. He would show up out of nowhere and play roller hockey with kids.

His biggest flaw was turning the puck over but I honestly think it was way over blown. The kid had unbelievable skills and his game is never going to be a defensive one. He’s an offensive player. Great speed,stick handling, vision, and playmaking.

what did him in is the isles were on a 9-10 game win streak with him in the line up. They sent him down and he was asked about it and he said “ they didn’t lose with me in the line up”. He wasn’t lying. I think that pissed Lou off and IIRC he was never called up again.

The leafs aren’t close to a team that I like but I definitely would love to see Ho-sang given a shot and have success. I just hope it isn’t too late. Wish my isles would have just traded him years ago to a team that he was more suited for.

 

[nobody]

Honestly it's not the worst idea to give Simmonds away and get all 3 young d man on the team.

It's not but Simmonds is here for veteran leadership and I think he still functions as the marshall on the ice for the Leafs. He may not be the player he was previously but I think he still plays a big role on the club. I don't think it's the worst thing to send Sandin down and let him develop with the Marlies either. I personally think Justin Holl is the one who deserves to be out from that whole D group but I don't think either Dubas or Keefe would do it. I also think that Gabriel is on this team. He will be put through waivers and should clear but I would think that the Leafs will still keep him around and have him travel with the team because the guys really love him and he seems to bring good energy to the team. And when needed/ when we have injuries, we can "recall him" and slot him into the lineup to provide a different element to the 4th line with Simmonds.

 

[nobody]

I really hope this kid gets a legit shot. When he was with the isles people made jokes and it was easy to get on the bandwagon against him. He’s honestly a really good kid. He was excellent with the fans and especially kids on Long Island. He would show up out of nowhere and play roller hockey with kids.

His biggest flaw was turning the puck over but I honestly think it was way over blown. The kid had unbelievable skills and his game is never going to be a defensive one. He’s an offensive player. Great speed,stick handling, vision, and playmaking.

what did him in is the isles were on a 9-10 game win streak with him in the line up. They sent him down and he was asked about it and he said “ they didn’t lose with me in the line up”. He wasn’t lying. I think that pissed Lou off and IIRC he was never called up again.

The leafs aren’t close to a team that I like but I definitely would love to see Ho-sang given a shot and have success. I just hope it isn’t too late. Wish my isles would have just traded him years ago to a team that he was more suited for.

Like he has spoken up about previously, there are teams' who won't give him the time of the day. But even going back to his junior days, he never really engaged in or did anything that was super egregious. All this guy does is have his own unique personality and way of thinking that doesn't quite fall in line with the cookie-cutter mold of what NHL really wants their players to be. Even in his time with the Isles when he wore #66, everyone including players, fans and media gave him shit over it. And he came out to explain that he was wearing it as a tribute to Mario because he was one of his childhood heroes. He wasn't putting on the jersey to disrespect him.

I think Josh Ho-Sang was to the Islanders what Nazem Kadri was to the Maple Leafs. And growing up through the minors after his draft, Kadri got absolutely shit on by the media and even a large chunk of the management. And he had never done anything wrong. He never whined, he never cried, he went down and played his butt off to wait for his next shot. In Kadri's case, the Leafs were terrible when it came to prospect depth and he was inevitably going to get his shot and he stuck it out through the non-sense to become an integral part of the rebuild. In JHS's case, the Isles were winning and there were toys shinier for the fans/media/management.

I've said it in my previous posts in this thread. Ho-Sang's flaw since he was young was that he was head and shoulders above his peer group. And that made him a selfish player who tended to go on solo rushes and hang on to pucks too long because he always thought he was the best option. And that was bound to piss off people as he grew older because this is a team game. I think he has slowly come around to realize that he needs to utilize his teammates to maximize his potential and secure a spot in the pro leagues. With the Isles, it was his inability to pass the puck on time that got him in trouble and subsequently benched. If he can limit his urge to try to be the best option and instead dish it early and often, he will eventually start being the recipient of more plays that run through him and naturally will get more scoring opportunities for himself too. Defensively, he has improved a ton and IMO he's a very competent defensive player who can slot into a top 6.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Honestly it's not the worst idea to give Simmonds away and get all 3 young d man on the team.

That's an awful idea

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

We'll see how the rest of TC goes but Ho-Sang to me has earned a contract to start in the AHL to improve his game and make a case for himself to be a callup option. Waivers be damned, take the risk.

 

[fahad203]

Like he has spoken up about previously, there are teams' who won't give him the time of the day. But even going back to his junior days, he never really engaged in or did anything that was super egregious. All this guy does is have his own unique personality and way of thinking that doesn't quite fall in line with the cookie-cutter mold of what NHL really wants their players to be. Even in his time with the Isles when he wore #66, everyone including players, fans and media gave him shit over it. And he came out to explain that he was wearing it as a tribute to Mario because he was one of his childhood heroes. He wasn't putting on the jersey to disrespect him.

I think Josh Ho-Sang was to the Islanders what Nazem Kadri was to the Maple Leafs. And growing up through the minors after his draft, Kadri got absolutely shit on by the media and even a large chunk of the management. And he had never done anything wrong. He never whined, he never cried, he went down and played his butt off to wait for his next shot. In Kadri's case, the Leafs were terrible when it came to prospect depth and he was inevitably going to get his shot and he stuck it out through the non-sense to become an integral part of the rebuild. In JHS's case, the Isles were winning and there were toys shinier for the fans/media/management.

I've said it in my previous posts in this thread. Ho-Sang's flaw since he was young was that he was head and shoulders above his peer group. And that made him a selfish player who tended to go on solo rushes and hang on to pucks too long because he always thought he was the best option. And that was bound to piss off people as he grew older because this is a team game. I think he has slowly come around to realize that he needs to utilize his teammates to maximize his potential and secure a spot in the pro leagues. With the Isles, it was his inability to pass the puck on time that got him in trouble and subsequently benched. If he can limit his urge to try to be the best option and instead dish it early and often, he will eventually start being the recipient of more plays that run through him and naturally will get more scoring opportunities for himself too. Defensively, he has improved a ton and IMO he's a very competent defensive player who can slot into a top 6.

That's not a very good comparison at all. Kadri was never a headcase coming into the league. He never complained about ice time and he never gave up on the team on any level. He didn't have problems with his team mates. If anything, one will argue he actually really cares about his teamates. Going after some players because they were being outhit

Kadri's issue if any was inconsistency. Something he still struggles with withday

Kadri was a bonefide prospect who proved in Juniors he could score, he proved himself in wjc

Kadri paid his dues and he managed himelf well. Ho Sang has done nothing so far to prove that he's actually an NHLer other than the fact that he had a decent pre season against bunch of nobodies.

Ho Sang may well turn out to be an NHLer but I wouldn't bet on it. I don't recall a player or a prospect who like him lost his way then somehow lived up to this junior upside

I mean even Robbie Schremp couldn't pull it off. Robbie was one of the most talented junior player during last 20 years.

Even Sean Day is in the minors. He'll do well for first 10 games. Players at his calibre or type lack consistency.

 

[nobody]

That's not a very good comparison at all. Kadri was never a headcase coming into the league. He never complained about ice time and he never gave up on the team on any level. He didn't have problems with his team mates. If anything, one will argue he actually really cares about his teamates. Going after some players because they were being outhit

Kadri's issue if any was inconsistency. Something he still struggles with withday

Kadri was a bonefide prospect who proved in Juniors he could score, he proved himself in wjc

Kadri paid his dues and he managed himelf well. Ho Sang has done nothing so far to prove that he's actually an NHLer other than the fact that he had a decent pre season against bunch of nobodies.

Ho Sang may well turn out to be an NHLer but I wouldn't bet on it. I don't recall a player or a prospect who like him lost his way then somehow lived up to this junior upside

I mean even Robbie Schremp couldn't pull it off. Robbie was one of the most talented junior player during last 20 years.

Even Sean Day is in the minors. He'll do well for first 10 games. Players at his calibre or type lack consistency.

I wasn't comparing Kadri to Ho-Sang. I was comparing their situations and the opportunities given to them. Ho-Sang has been vocal about his opportunities (or lack there of) and that's not unearned. He has played well or good enough to stick it out with the Isles and he has played well in the AHL to earn call-ups but he got to a point where he was just buried for good. The issue with Schremp wasn't his skill. It was his speed and inability to keep up with the evolving game. He also had an atrocious defensive game which as a Center is not going to get you anywhere. Ho-Sang has high-end speed on top of being able to play competent enough defense. He's not a black hole and neither is he unaware. Yes, he does lack consistency in play but I think that has more to do with the fact that he has never been given a stead opportunity with any players to be able to develop chemistry or get comfortable. Naz when he first broke through with the Leafs had Joffrey Lupul to play with who I would argue had a massive impact on his game and allowed him to stick. He wasn't being jerked around up and down the lineup when he ended up sticking because when he was jerked around earlier in his career, he struggled to adjust and was subsequently sent down.

I think Ho-Sang has the skill, speed and defensive acumen to stick in the NHL. His consistency issues are blown out of proportions and if he can have steady linemates for a 10-20 game stretch, he would settle in and carve out a good role. He's not a one-trick pony type of a guy and I don't think he's truly going to be a star-level player. But I can easily see him carving out a few seasons where he puts up anywhere from 40-65 points, if given that opportunity. And we can definitely use a player like him in the lineup.

 

[LeafParade]

I said Sandin will start in the minors most likely since he was the worst between him, Lilly and Dermy.

I also think he is starting in the minors. There is no pont carrying him as a 7th and not playing him. They can just swap him in for Lilly at some point or once there is an injury. I think he still needs to work on a few things but he needs playing time for that.

 

[hockeynorth]

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Nylander - Tavares - Ho-Sang
Kerfoot - Kampf - Kase
Ritchie - Semyonov - Mikheyev
Spezza

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Dermott - Liljegren

Campbell
Mrazek

 

[Lemontree]

A small soft "offensive" winger with no goal scoring ability. Has a history of expecting opportunities handed to him instead of working for them (speaking only regarding hockey). There are fans of this team that want him on the roster?

 

[LeafChief]

That's not a very good comparison at all. Kadri was never a headcase coming into the league. He never complained about ice time and he never gave up on the team on any level. He didn't have problems with his team mates. If anything, one will argue he actually really cares about his teamates. Going after some players because they were being outhit

Kadri's issue if any was inconsistency. Something he still struggles with withday

Kadri was a bonefide prospect who proved in Juniors he could score, he proved himself in wjc

Kadri paid his dues and he managed himelf well. Ho Sang has done nothing so far to prove that he's actually an NHLer other than the fact that he had a decent pre season against bunch of nobodies.

Ho Sang may well turn out to be an NHLer but I wouldn't bet on it. I don't recall a player or a prospect who like him lost his way then somehow lived up to this junior upside

I mean even Robbie Schremp couldn't pull it off. Robbie was one of the most talented junior player during last 20 years.

Even Sean Day is in the minors. He'll do well for first 10 games. Players at his calibre or type lack consistency.

Most things in this post are factually incorrect. Just in case anyone was wondering.

 

[LeapOnOver]

I really hope this kid gets a legit shot. When he was with the isles people made jokes and it was easy to get on the bandwagon against him. He’s honestly a really good kid. He was excellent with the fans and especially kids on Long Island. He would show up out of nowhere and play roller hockey with kids.

His biggest flaw was turning the puck over but I honestly think it was way over blown. The kid had unbelievable skills and his game is never going to be a defensive one. He’s an offensive player. Great speed,stick handling, vision, and playmaking.

what did him in is the isles were on a 9-10 game win streak with him in the line up. They sent him down and he was asked about it and he said “ they didn’t lose with me in the line up”. He wasn’t lying. I think that pissed Lou off and IIRC he was never called up again.

The leafs aren’t close to a team that I like but I definitely would love to see Ho-sang given a shot and have success. I just hope it isn’t too late. Wish my isles would have just traded him years ago to a team that he was more suited for.

LOL, no...that was not his biggest flaw. His biggest flaw was being uncoachable...and before you deny it, it's easy to piece together the information and interviews to see that's the issue.

Things said about JHS in the past:
He's a cerebral player.
He questions things a lot.
He wonders why he has to do some things some way and not play to his strengths
Wonders why the coaches don't give him a chance to play to his strengths

Things JHS has said:
team was doing well with me in the lineup
I think my on ice performance speaks for itself
teams didn't take the opportunity to get to know me (ie. didn't ask me how I wanted to play and what playstyle I enjoy)

It's not difficult to connect the dots. The giveaways were a minor problem and not overblown. It was the inability to buy-in to the system because you think you know better that was his biggest flaw. He could be mature enough to get past that, we'll see.

Honestly the Leafs seem like a good fit. Surrounded by skilled players, not a lot of demand or accountability on adhering to some strict system. He could really flourish, Leafs just have to decide if its worth putting another one of their guys on waivers on a gamble that JHS can keep this attitude all season.

 

[zeke]

bah they did a Freddy the Great segment and then skipped straight to his "knee injury".

Chickens.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

LOL, no...that was not his biggest flaw. His biggest flaw was being uncoachable...and before you deny it, it's easy to piece together the information and interviews to see that's the issue.

Things said about JHS in the past:
He's a cerebral player.
He questions things a lot.
He wonders why he has to do some things some way and not play to his strengths
Wonders why the coaches don't give him a chance to play to his strengths

Things JHS has said:
team was doing well with me in the lineup
I think my on ice performance speaks for itself
teams didn't take the opportunity to get to know me (ie. didn't ask me how I wanted to play and what playstyle I enjoy)

It's not difficult to connect the dots. The giveaways were a minor problem and not overblown. It was the inability to buy-in to the system because you think you know better that was his biggest flaw. He could be mature enough to get past that, we'll see.

Honestly the Leafs seem like a good fit. Surrounded by skilled players, not a lot of demand or accountability on adhering to some strict system. He could really flourish, Leafs just have to decide if its worth putting another one of their guys on waivers on a gamble that JHS can keep this attitude all season.

I realize we haven’t played each other in close to two years but that couldn’t be less true. Leafs system isn’t Islanders strict but Keefe does have the team playing responsibly defensively.

 

[Stephen]

A small soft "offensive" winger with no goal scoring ability. Has a history of expecting opportunities handed to him instead of working for them (speaking only regarding hockey). There are fans of this team that want him on the roster?

I mean, if he can feed Michael Bunting for multi goal games on a semi regular basis, you have your answer.

 

[LeapOnOver]

I realize we haven’t played each other in close to two years but that couldn’t be less true. Leafs system isn’t Islanders strict but Keefe does have the team playing responsibly defensively.

It's possible. The few Leaf's games I saw last year and the multiple articles I read about passengers who never got benched made me think otherwise. But I'm completely willing to agree I'm naive to the real situation and wholeheartedly accept you know better than me being a fan of your team. Keefe might not have patience with JHS then if he bucks against his defensive obligations like he did on the Island. Offensively he's fun, but I think more times than not you'll see him holding on to the puck too long and eventually losing it or trying to force a bad pass. He always seemed to lack the ability to make simple plays when given the opportunity always holding out for some tap in. Granted, those talents are what make some players elite, I just think JHS walks around thinking he's already earned everything he hasn't yet. His issues are purely mental, nothing wrong physically with his game at all.

 

[Le Cobra]

he clearly has chemistry with Bunting. Keep them together the way Montreal did with Suzuki and Caufield. There could be something special there.

 

[zeke]

I realize we haven’t played each other in close to two years but that couldn’t be less true. Leafs system isn’t Islanders strict but Keefe does have the team playing responsibly defensively.

at 5v5:

Shot Attempts Against/60

#10 TOR
#15 NYI

Shots Against /60

#5 TOR
#10 NYI

Chances Against /60

#13 TOR
#18 NYI

Expected Goals Against /60

#6 TOR
#10 NYI

Goals Against /60

#2 NYI
#6 TOR

By Goalie:

NYI w/Varlamov #1 1.76 (.937sv%)
TOR w/Rittich #2 1.81 (.920sv%)
TOR w/Campbell #2 1.86 (.926sv%)
NYI w/Sorokin #12 2.21 (.919sv%)
TOR w/Anderson #13 2.22 (.919sv%)
TOR w/Hutchinson #13 2.22 (.924sv%)