Confirmed with Link: Ho-Sang PTO discussion

[egd27]

I read this post in Jon Lovitz voice.

As we all should.

yeah, that's it.....Miss Universe

 

[ACC1224]

I read this post in Jon Lovitz voice.

First mistake.

 

[Fogelhund]

I think he meant a league min NHL contract with a high AHL salary.

Gets Ho-Sang some money and will potentially stop other teams from wanting to put in a waiver claim.

He specifically said a Marlies contract though. Not a Leafs contract... I'd just sign him to a one way NHL contract, so he gets paid the same no matter where he plays.

 

[therealkoho]

I read this post in Jon Lovitz voice.

that's the ticket!

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Sure, but would he sign that(?), and he couldn't be called up quickly if needed on the Leafs... half of the plan would be to have injury replacement.

If he stands by his word of playing in the ECHL if need be, then yes.

IDK what the highest amount on a pure AHL contract is, but we can probably give him in the 150k-200k range if the average is 90k. I imagine he doesn't get more than 250k guaranteed if he gets a two-way NHL deal.

At this point, for him, money is probably not the thing he should worry about. If the Leafs/Marlies give him any kind of contract to play in the Marlies top 9, he should be taking it. We are known for letting guys work up and get into the lineup, and if we have any kind of injury to Marner, Nylander, or Kase, he is probably the first guy we call up.

 

[smitty10]

But the problem is, when JHS goes to the minors, he sulks and thinks he doesn't belong there. Then, he thinks he doesn't need to be coached. He did it time and time again with us. He should have tore up the AHL, but it never happened. He even had an interview once after he was sent down where he said something along the lines of 'the Islanders were winning when I was in the lineup, now I'm here and look at their record'. He had plenty of preseason interviews that sounded like he got it...just wait for the ones in season.

Not here to rain on a parade, if the kid gets together it's just another exciting player to watch. I have no qualms with that. Just don't think it's going to happen ...the whole fool me once thing.

This is what I'm most worried about. For this reason, I have no expectations for him. If he turns out, awesome. If he doesn't, oh well.

 

[Fogelhund]

This is what I'm most worried about. For this reason, I have no expectations for him. If he turns out, awesome. If he doesn't, oh well.

Exactly. It's a no risk situation for us really. We've got a pretty good captain in Tavares, who also seems to like Ho-Sang on a personal level. You'd think Tavares would have a chat with him, and straighten him out. This could be Ho-Sang's last chance in North America. But, if H-S doesn't want to go AHL, prove he belongs... too bad for him.

 

[81Leafs50]

I can see both making it out of camp. One is a take away artist, the other is an assist machine. I smell a big trade coming( for a top tier #1 D), that will put these two in the line up.

no way. there is a better than 50% chance both dont make it.

Ritchie-Matthews-Marner
Bunting-Tavares-Nylander
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Kase
Simmonds-Kampf-Spezza
Engvall

They have $80k in salary cap space. No room for Robertson, Gusev, Ho-Sang.

 

[LeafParade]

no way. there is a better than 50% chance both dont make it.

Ritchie-Matthews-Marner
Bunting-Tavares-Nylander
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Kase
Simmonds-Kampf-Spezza
Engvall

They have $80k in salary cap space. No room for Robertson, Gusev, Ho-Sang.

The way Simmonds is playing, I got no problem waiving him or sending him to the AHL.
He is getting outplayed by everyone.

 

[ottomaddox]

It seems obvious to most of us that Ho-Sang can play. He also seems like he wants to be a Leaf.

What does TOR offer him? Someone will likely have to be waived or traded to make room for him no?

 

[Sypher04]

no way. there is a better than 50% chance both dont make it.

Ritchie-Matthews-Marner
Bunting-Tavares-Nylander
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Kase
Simmonds-Kampf-Spezza
Engvall

They have $80k in salary cap space. No room for Robertson, Gusev, Ho-Sang.

I have no issue trading Engvall to clear room for Ho-Sang. Gusev hasn’t earned a contract imo and Roberson starts with the Marlies imo.

if we are 80k under. Trade or waive Engvall. Sign Ho-Sang to minimum. We increase to a nice bit of cap space too. Like $600k

 

[81Leafs50]

I have no issue trading Engvall to clear room for Ho-Sang

Engvall can play C and W. He elevated in the playoffs last year. Ho-Sang will start with the Marlies.

 

[Sypher04]

Engvall can play C and W. He elevated in the playoffs last year. Ho-Sang will start with the Marlies.

I agree that Ho-Sang most likely starts with the Marlies, but disagree on Engvall. I actually think if we waived Engvall he almost certainly clears. That said, are you allowed to waive injured players? Maybe at the season start you can but not mid season?

 

[Twine Tickler]

Not surprised by JHS level of play. His words are clearly being backed up by his play. I would be very upset if we did not give JHS a real chance going forward. This could really end up being the reclamation project of all reclamation projects. The player has openly displayed a desire to stay in the organization, I just don't see why we wouldn't find a way to make this happen.

That said, His level of play has surely caught the eye's of the other 31 teams. If he is presented a better opportunity elsewhere, I do not blame him 1 bit for exploring that. However, He has also expressed gratitude to the Leafs for taking the time to get to know him as a person and player, so I am confident he'd choose us over other teams if we could ensure him an avenue to NHL action. I don't think this "avenue" needs to be giving him an spot on the opening night roster, although at this point he deserves one, but it could also mean laying out a Galchenyuk like game plan for his development.

I preach it on here over an over. KD's personal and intermate action that he takes with each individual player is what keeps these type of players in the organization playing for nothing, and it is why we keep getting these level of players year over year. The way he approached the Galchenyuk situation last year now lays out the road map for Josh, and so on and so forth. In my opinion, JHS would be better off capitalizing on his strong play elsewhere. He could likely crack an NHL lineup elsewhere. Nonetheless, KD has shown how important he values individual development of his players, both with the Leafs and the Marlies. If it's not looking like it will work by January, he can always be moved. Just like he did with Lievo, Barabanov, Lehtonen...etc.

Hate KD or not, you have to give him credit on his ability to find NHL talent at bottom of the barrel prices. It will be hard to ever top the Spezza deal as best bargain, but JHS has a real shot of becoming the best deal yet if we get him under contract.

I'd give him a 2 year 2-way AHL/NHL deal at league minimum. Hard to believe he'd say no to that

 

[TMLAM34]

Ho-Sang is certainly earning his way into the Leafs lineup. He can clearly provide some secondary scoring and help the second PP unit if the first isn’t going.

 

[ACC1224]

Not surprised by JHS level of play. His words are clearly being backed up by his play. I would be very upset if we did not give JHS a real chance going forward. This could really end up being the reclamation project of all reclamation projects. The player has openly displayed a desire to stay in the organization, I just don't see why we wouldn't find a way to make this happen.

That said, His level of play has surely caught the eye's of the other 31 teams. If he is presented a better opportunity elsewhere, I do not blame him 1 bit for exploring that. However, He has also expressed gratitude to the Leafs for taking the time to get to know him as a person and player, so I am confident he'd choose us over other teams if we could ensure him an avenue to NHL action. I don't think this "avenue" needs to be giving him an spot on the opening night roster, although at this point he deserves one, but it could also mean laying out a Galchenyuk like game plan for his development.

I preach it on here over an over. KD's personal and intermate action that he takes with each individual player is what keeps these type of players in the organization playing for nothing, and it is why we keep getting these level of players year over year. The way he approached the Galchenyuk situation last year now lays out the road map for Josh, and so on and so forth. In my opinion, JHS would be better off capitalizing on his strong play elsewhere. He could likely crack an NHL lineup elsewhere. Nonetheless, KD has shown how important he values individual development of his players, both with the Leafs and the Marlies. If it's not looking like it will work by January, he can always be moved. Just like he did with Lievo, Barabanov, Lehtonen...etc.

Hate KD or not, you have to give him credit on his ability to find NHL talent at bottom of the barrel prices. It will be hard to ever top the Spezza deal as best bargain, but JHS has a real shot of becoming the best deal yet if we get him under contract.

I'd give him a 2 year 2-way AHL/NHL deal at league minimum. Hard to believe he'd say no to that

You don't think his agent would shop him around the league first before signing that?

 

[zeke]

You don't think his agent would shop him around the league first before signing that?

Not sure exactly what its worth but i think his agent would be interested in giving him an opportunity to be a heartbeat away from playing with matthews/marner/tavares/nylander and re-establish his value as a player.

 

[Twine Tickler]

You don't think his agent would shop him around the league first before signing that?

he would 100%

That's his job as an agent. However Josh's agent also has to be realistic with his client and how his reputation is still very much in question for the remaining 31 teams. He has established a working relationship with MLSE, something he has yet to do with any professional franchise he's played for. Money is not everything. The fact that the Leafs were the team that gave him a shot, and how he has expressed deep gratitude for that has to weigh in on his decision long term. You don't disprove your 10+ year old reputation through 1 training camp. It takes years to fully shake that narrative. TOR has shown that it will be a conducive environment for Josh to continue to do just that. If his agent disagrees, I would be very surprised. Realistically, it won't be about money. It will be about opportunity. If we can satisfy his needs from an opportunity standpoint, a deal will get done. And given how he has said he would start in the ECHL, I'd have to think this wont be an issue

 

[Maple Leaf]

Sign him up

 

[The Iceman]

no way. there is a better than 50% chance both dont make it.

Ritchie-Matthews-Marner
Bunting-Tavares-Nylander
Mikheyev-Kerfoot-Kase
Simmonds-Kampf-Spezza
Engvall

They have $80k in salary cap space. No room for Robertson, Gusev, Ho-Sang.

What you can bank on is
Matthews-Marner
JT-Willy
Kampf-Kase
will be paired together.

 

[Rob Brown]

You don't think his agent would shop him around the league first before signing that?

Probably, but you can also tell that he desperately wants to be a part of the organization and would probably take a bit less to land here.

 

[ACC1224]

he would 100%

That's his job as an agent. However Josh's agent also has to be realistic with his client and how his reputation is still very much in question for the remaining 31 teams. He has established a working relationship with MLSE, something he has yet to do with any professional franchise he's played for. Money is not everything. The fact that the Leafs were the team that gave him a shot, and how he has expressed deep gratitude for that has to weigh in on his decision long term. You don't disprove your 10+ year old reputation through 1 training camp. It takes years to fully shake that narrative. TOR has shown that it will be a conducive environment for Josh to continue to do just that. If his agent disagrees, I would be very surprised. Realistically, it won't be about money. It will be about opportunity. If we can satisfy his needs from an opportunity standpoint, a deal will get done. And given how he has said he would start in the ECHL, I'd have to think this wont be an issue

If he plays well enough that the Leafs will offer him a two way deal someone will offer him an NHL deal, IMO. He'll have the duration of that deal to prove himself to that team and the rest of the league. No matter what he says, I don't see him being satisfied with the ECHL if an NHL deal is presented.

 

[nobody]

To start the year:

Ritchie - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Ho-Sang
Kase - Kerfoot - Nylander
Mikheyev - Kampf - Simmonds
Spezza

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Liljegren
Dermott - Holl
Sandin (He's been the worst of Dermott, Liljegren, Sandin)

Campbell - 1A
Mrazek - 1B

PP1:
Nylander - Ritchie - Matthews
Marner - Rielly

Kase - Bunting - Tavares
Brodie/ Spezza - Ho-Sang

I think Engvall has already been in the doghouse with Keefe for over 2 years now and he will either be sent down to the minors or he will find his way to another team via trade. I think Curtis Gabriel is probably "sent down" but will be kept around the team in all likelihood because the boys love him. Sandin is waiver-eligible and most likely starting the year in the AHL. Simmonds and Spezza will swap in and out of the lineup up top.

 

[Twine Tickler]

If he plays well enough that the Leafs will offer him a two way deal someone will offer him an NHL deal, IMO. He'll have the duration of that deal to prove himself to that team and the rest of the league. No matter what he says, I don't see him being satisfied with the ECHL if an NHL deal is presented.

I do agree, No player would pass up an NHL contract to play in the ECHL. However, I do think he would consider playing with the Marlies on a 2-way deal over say Buffalo, Detroit, Arizona etc... If you watch this interview from last night's post game press conference, something that stands out to me was when he said "They [Leafs] really wanted to get to know me, which you know a lot of other teams did not want to do".



His reputation was at a point where he was no longer of interest to most NHL clubs this offseason. Part of disproving his reputation for good will be about doing the things that he once was not willing to do. Which would include humbling himself to play in the minors willingly. Josh is a more polished player than anyone we have on the Marlies right now. He would easily be the first guy up if he doesn't crack our opening night roster. Right now, he is my 4L RW on the Leafs on my latest mock lineup. He's been one of the more impressive players in camp, and I truly don't see a reason to put him behind Simmonds on any depth chart.

All n all, obviously an NHL deal sounds great, but a 1 way NHL deal doesn't come with guaranteed playing time. Nor does it come with an exemption from hitting waivers. At least a 2-way deal in TOR allows him to plant roots in a single city despite if he plays for the NHL or AHL club. At this point, if the Leafs offer him anything, this looks like a man who would not even consider other deals IMO. He looks comfortable with the Leafs as being the organization where he changes his reputation. God knows he will get the publicity.

Lets put it this way, lets say JHS has this camp in ARZ, do you think he makes any hockey news publications at this point? not a f***ing chance. If this guy has a f***ing 3 pt night in his 1st game with the Marlies it would be front page of the sun, and on sportscentre lol. TOR is the ideal place for him to prove himself

 

[egd27]

To start the year:

Ritchie - Matthews - Marner
Bunting - Tavares - Ho-Sang
Kase - Kerfoot - Nylander
Mikheyev - Kampf - Simmonds
Spezza

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Liljegren
Dermott - Holl
Sandin (He's been the worst of Dermott, Liljegren, Sandin)

Campbell - 1A
Mrazek - 1B

PP1:
Nylander - Ritchie - Matthews
Marner - Rielly

Kase - Bunting - Tavares
Brodie/ Spezza - Ho-Sang

I think Engvall has already been in the doghouse with Keefe for over 2 years now and he will either be sent down to the minors or he will find his way to another team via trade. I think Curtis Gabriel is probably "sent down" but will be kept around the team in all likelihood because the boys love him. Sandin is waiver-eligible and most likely starting the year in the AHL. Simmonds and Spezza will swap in and out of the lineup up top.

How much are you signing HoSang for?
Have you considered the 175K of dead cap by demoting Engvall?