Has Cale Makar already surpassed a prime Erik Karlsson in just his first 4 years?

[TheBeard]

And frankly it was simply an observation that no one is 'winning' a debate against a handful of people who have been dug in on their position for a half decade despite a mountain of evidence to the contrary and no matter who is presenting it. And that's fine, just wear it, don't pretend it's not the case. As much as I butt heads with @Erik Alfredsson I definitely appreciate that he's not wishy washy about his thoughts, others are...see photo.

Opinions are just that though. Opinions. Mountains of evidence are for court cases. I’m also not sure who the evidence in question is slanted towards.

 

[TheBeard]

Oh, okay. Then it's cool if you're the grand arbiter.

Not really sure what you mean. I just threw out a suggestion. Clearly, to Colorado fans, it was a preposterous one.

 

[didimentionlarseller]

Karlsson didnt sign up for this....

 

[Bruce Granville]

Next thread:

Has Cale Makar already surpassed his prime?​

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Next thread:

Has Cale Makar already surpassed his prime?​

Naw...

Does Cale Makar belong to the Super NHL?

 

[Video Nasty]

Makar’s play, accomplishments, and trajectory after just 3 seasons makes it clear that he’s going to be compared some of the truly all-time great defensemen by the time it’s all said and done.

As long as he’s healthy and this Avs team can keep it going for awhile, he’s going to shoot up the rankings fairly quickly. I don’t think some recognize the power that winning a Cup and Smythe so quickly gives an elite player.

I understand the people who need it to see it play out in real time for the next 10-15 years, but it’s going to come quicker than that.

Just 2 more Norris wins means he’s already in a select group of defensemen who are behind only Orr (8), Harvey and Lidstrom (7) and Bourque (5). He could be there in less than 2 years real time.

Barring injury, he’s clearly on that path. Passing Karlsson is mere formality.

 

[wetcoast]

By the line only no, but watching it wasn't a good performance and also misleading. IE the two assists in the 6-2 drubbing were merely just empty passes in an already blow out. The only game I found him to be dominant really was the game 6 loss. It's also hard to condone going -4 in a series where you outscored the opposition by 5.


It's not an excuse, but it's definitely something that needs to be taken into consideration.

I guess the thing is that there is a huge difference from being dominant to being a disappointment so we will agree to disagree.


I mean he played more than any other Avs and was 1 point off being the finals scoring champion, that might not be dominant but it closer to than being a disappointment.

 

[Shane Diesel]

I'm largely indifferent to Ottawa, but the Karlsson tears are sweater than ever imagined.

 

[TheBeard]

Next thread:

Has Cale Makar already surpassed his prime?​

Is prime at Makar levels yet?

 

[TheBeard]

I'm largely indifferent to Ottawa, but the Karlsson tears are sweater than ever imagined.

I know Shane and he’d be appalled by your poor spelling.

 

[Fixxer]

 

[Riversidesouth Ryan]

I think he has. Kid is unreal. And if he gets a cup this year, I think it's no question that Makar has exceeded a prime Karlsson in much less time. Makar has already had more playoff success in his first 4 years than Karlsson has had over his entire playoff career. Mind you, surprisingly Karlsson has only played in the post season 6 times in his 13 year career. But also Karlsson has played on some stacked Ottawa rosters too.

Stacked Ottawa rosters is a stretch. Makar has been surrounded a lot better then Karlsson was here in Ottawa. I wish Ottawa had what colorado currently has when Karlsson was here.

 

[Stealth JD]

Answer to OP: yes

 

[TheRumble]

Hot take:

Makar is gonna end his career and be considered the best player of his generation. He's already the best player in the NHL IMO. Avs are got lucky to have him.

If I'm building a team from scratch, I take Makar first. No question.

 

[AvsFan29]

EK didn’t play defense, Makar just sucks at it

???????????????

 

[JackSlater]

Probably on track to, but Karlsson was the best defenceman of the 2010s and was great for longer than Makar has even played in the NHL.

 

[flyfysher]

Probably on track to, but Karlsson was the best defenceman of the 2010s and was great for longer than Makar has even played in the NHL.

Perhaps but Makar has already achieved more professionally than EK has or likely will. Norris Trophy, SC and Conn Smythe Trophy in one year no less.

 

[psycat]

I think a, quite solid, case can be made that he "already" peaked higher but for career he didn't pass him yet obviously. I don't think he peaked higher either but it's atleast debatable.

 

[JackSlater]

Perhaps but Makar has already achieved more professionally than EK has or likely will. Norris Trophy, SC and Conn Smythe Trophy in one year no less.

He has a wider array of trophies I guess. Karlsson's 2017 playoffs measures up (and is better really) than Makar's 2022 playoffs to me, but Ottawa 2017 was nowhere near Colorado 2022. If he stays healthy Makar should surpass Karlsson at some point at least.

 

[flyfysher]

He has a wider array of trophies I guess. Karlsson's 2017 playoffs measures up (and is better really) than Makar's 2022 playoffs to me, but Ottawa 2017 was nowhere near Colorado 2022. If he stays healthy Makar should surpass Karlsson at some point at least.

Already has.

 

[NyQuil]

I'm largely indifferent to Ottawa, but the Karlsson tears are sweater than ever imagined.

Join date: June 8, 2021.

Welcome to the board!

If he stays healthy Makar should surpass Karlsson at some point at least.

It seems probable.

In general, people are conservative and loathe to put a player ahead on the basis of a historical performance right just as it occurs, and tend to be a bit more objective in hindsight.

Ironically, the same thing happened to Karlsson at the time he was winning awards.

If Makar goes on to win 2 or 3 Norris trophies in a row, people will look back at this past season and say that it was the clear delineation point.

Perhaps but Makar has already achieved more professionally than EK has or likely will. Norris Trophy, SC and Conn Smythe Trophy in one year no less.

I don't see the big hurry. If Makar is everything people expect, it'll happen sooner or later.

This need for everyone to achieve consensus as fast as possible reminds me of Matthews threads and is a bit cringeworthy.

It will happen organically over time without beating people over the head with it. Sometimes you have to give people time to come to their own conclusions as opposed to belittlement.

 

[abo9]

Makar’s play, accomplishments, and trajectory after just 3 seasons makes it clear that he’s going to be compared some of the truly all-time great defensemen by the time it’s all said and done.

As long as he’s healthy and this Avs team can keep it going for awhile, he’s going to shoot up the rankings fairly quickly. I don’t think some recognize the power that winning a Cup and Smythe so quickly gives an elite player.

I understand the people who need it to see it play out in real time for the next 10-15 years, but it’s going to come quicker than that.

Just 2 more Norris wins means he’s already in a select group of defensemen who are behind only Orr (8), Harvey and Lidstrom (7) and Bourque (5). He could be there in less than 2 years real time.

Barring injury, he’s clearly on that path. Passing Karlsson is mere formality.

You do realize that, beside the Cup/CS (which are somewhat team-dependent), Makar doesn't have much individually over Karlsson at the same age? I think that you're downplaying Erik Karlsson's career up until he was 26-27 years old (when he started to sink badly).

You're using Norris trophies to help your case, but Karlsson won his 1st in his 3rd season as well, but while being 2 years younger than Makar (21 vs 23).
Karlsson was actually the 2nd youngest Norris trophy winner in the entire history of the NHL (only Bobby Orr won it before 21). Makar is 8th, which is still pretty impressive though.

Karlsson also had a 2nd Norris trophy at age 24 - becoming one of 13 defensemen in NHL history to accomplish the feat. Do you not think people were thinking the same thing about Karlsson as what you say today about Makar? The guy had achievements in the same breath as all-time greats as well.

Of course, post-26 is where things fell apart for Karlsson. Makar probably eclipses him in that period of his career. But pre-26 is gonna be tough to be inarguably better than Karlsson's.

 

[Video Nasty]

You do realize that, beside the Cup/CS (which are somewhat team-dependent), Makar doesn't have much individually over Karlsson at the same age? I think that you're downplaying Erik Karlsson's career up until he was 26-27 years old (when he started to sink badly).

You're using Norris trophies to help your case, but Karlsson won his 1st in his 3rd season as well, but while being 2 years younger than Makar (21 vs 23).
Karlsson was actually the 2nd youngest Norris trophy winner in the entire history of the NHL (only Bobby Orr won it before 21). Makar is 8th, which is still pretty impressive though.

Karlsson also had a 2nd Norris trophy at age 24 - becoming one of 13 defensemen in NHL history to accomplish the feat. Do you not think people were thinking the same thing about Karlsson as what you say today about Makar? The guy had achievements in the same breath as all-time greats as well.

Of course, post-26 is where things fell apart for Karlsson. Makar probably eclipses him in that period of his career. But pre-26 is gonna be tough to be inarguably better than Karlsson's.

You do realize that Karlsson had 5 seasons by this age compared to 3? Also hence why I said barring injury.

It’s not going to be tough to rank Makar over Karlsson through age 26 if he wins 2 of the next 3 Norris trophies.

And he’s on a trajectory to do more in 2 less seasons (will be 6 seasons being compared to 8 for Karlsson through age 26).

Much like you think Karlsson shouldn’t be penalized for not having team accomplishments, why should Makar be punished for driving the bus successfully?

 

[abo9]

Hence why I said barring injury.

It’s not going to be tough to rank Makar over Karlsson through age 26 if he wins 2 of the next 3 Norris trophies.

And he’s on a trajectory to do more in 2 less seasons (will be 6 seasons being compared to 8 for Karlsson through age 26).

Much like you think Karlsson shouldn’t be penalized for not having team accomplishments, why should Makar be punished for driving the bus successfully?

I mean, "duh". IF Makar wins 2 of rhe next 3 Norris it's gonna be a true "AINEC" moment.

But that's a pretty big "if" - it's an extremely unlikely scenario. I'll eat dirt if that happens lol.

Idk what you talk about being "penalized". You're putting words in my mouth.

 

[Video Nasty]

I mean, "duh". IF Makar wins 2 of rhe next 3 Norris it's gonna be a true "AINEC" moment.

But that's a pretty big "if" - it's an extremely unlikely scenario. I'll eat dirt if that happens lol.

Idk what you talk about being "penalized". You're putting words in my mouth.

You seem to be downplaying Makar scooping up a Conn Smythe with that Cup as if it shouldn’t have much weight in the argument, so I apologize if I put words in your mouth.