Proposal: Gardiner + Marner for Faulk

[Rebels57]

Justin Faulk



Jake Gardiner

Mitch Marner

Leafs get a top pairing defender who can run the powerplay and pair with Rielly at even strength

Hurricanes get a #2 defender with huge upside plus a Top 5 prospect league wide that projects as an elite scorer.

Thoughts?

This is just horrific for Toronto

The gap between Faulk and Gardiner is not Marner, an elite prospect.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

Marner is untouchable. I'd do it with Nylander instead.

You have it backwards there bud...

 

[Penske]

If Carolina wanted to deal Faulk they would get a better deal from another team.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Can you seriously say that if faulk walks onto another NHL team, that he supplants ANY of the following guys??

Suter, Pietrangelo, Letang, Doughty, Karlsson, Hedman, Keith,Burns, Josi, Subban,OEL,Byufglien, Shattenkirk, Carlson...

5 of the guys you listed play a different side than Faulk.

To answer your question, Faulk is better than Shattenkirk, Josi and Byfuglien (though with Josi it doesn't really matter because of handedness) and about equal with Carlson. Faulk gets more points than Carlson though. This is my opinion, of course. That leaves Faulk roughly around 7th-10th among RHD- so about the 15-20 spot people have him pegged at.

I assumed Gardiner played right earlier- but since he's actually left handed, it's a solid "no" from the 'Canes. They need right handed guys, not losing their one right handed threat on the PP from the point.

 

[Countryjunkie]

This thread makes absolutely no sense. I'm a Leafs fan, so I'll only speak from the Leafs perspective.

First of all, there is no chance the Leafs trade one of their top 'ELITE' (and yes Mitch Marner is elite.) prospect, PERIOD!

Second of all, Leafs have a decent group of defensive prospects in their system to wait and see what they have before making a decision. Even the highly regarded Justin Faulk spent his first 2 professional seasons split between the AHL and NHL to properly develop.

Finally, the Leafs have been drafting mostly forwards with their high draft picks in the first round. Sooner or later during this rebuild (which is NOT over) Toronto should have a blue chip defensive prospect fall in their laps. Thus making the thought of acquiring Justin Faulk kind of idiotic in the sense of having to give up a potential corner stone piece in Mitch Marner to do it.


The Shanaplan is working for the Leafs, so a trade of this magnitude would only derail it.

 

[Rebels57]

5 of the guys you listed play a different side than Faulk.

To answer your question, Faulk is better than Shattenkirk, Josi and Byfuglien (though with Josi it doesn't really matter because of handedness) and about equal with Carlson. Faulk gets more points than Carlson though. This is my opinion, of course. That leaves Faulk roughly around 7th-10th among RHD- so about the 15-20 spot people have him pegged at.

I assumed Gardiner played right earlier- but since he's actually left handed, it's a solid "no" from the 'Canes. They need right handed guys, not losing their one right handed threat on the PP from the point.

Lmao Faulk is not better than Josi.

What is going on in this thread?!

 

[Drew4u]

Doesn't make much sense for Carolina, trade a top defencemen for a top four and an unproven prospect. Faulk is worth more.

 

[major major]

Can you seriously say that if faulk walks onto another NHL team, that he supplants ANY of the following guys??

Suter, Pietrangelo, Letang, Doughty, Karlsson, Hedman, Keith,Burns, Josi, Subban,OEL,Byufglien, Shattenkirk, Carlson...

Or has more than equal upside than,
Ekblad, Lindholm, Gostisbehere, Rielly, Vatanen, Ristolainen

I'd take Faulk over Shattenkirk, Buff, and Carlson.

He's also only 24 so he still has upside beyond that - I'd say higher than Lindholm, Gost (1 yr younger, not in his realm defensively), Rielly (2 years younger, not on his level defensively) and Vatanen (older than Faulk).

Faulk is already a proven top level d-man. Marners best case scenario is hm ever being the same level value wise as Faulk.

You're basically correct. I think 50% chance Marner ends up producing 70+ points a year. And a smallish 70 pt winger still isn't really worth Faulk. Teensy chance Marner is more than that. His value is off by a factor of 2 and that's not hyperbole.

 

[Rebels57]

I'd take Faulk over Shattenkirk, Buff, and Carlson.

He's also only 24 so he still has upside beyond that - I'd say higher than Lindholm, Gost (1 yr younger, not in his realm defensively), Rielly (2 years younger, not on his level defensively) and Vatanen (older than Faulk).



You're basically correct. I think 50% chance Marner ends up producing 70+ points a year. And a smallish 70 pt winger still isn't really worth Faulk. Teensy chance Marner is more than that. His value is off by a factor of 2 and that's not hyperbole.

Marner could very well be the next Kane or Gaudreau though. I think we can agree they are both more valuable than Faulk.

 

[Semantics]

please stop. is that a joke? Seabrook is a great example of a #2. Gardiner is not even close to that. he's top 4 at best. a #2 is a top pairing defenseman. it's laughable to call Gardiner that.

There are sixty top pairing defensemen in the league. Gardiner is easily in that group. He's so underrated it's crazy - his possession stats have been ELITE for years now.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Rielly..
2013–14 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 73 2 25 27 12 — — — — —
2014–15 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 81 8 21 29 14 — — — — —
2015–16 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 82 9 27 36 28

Faulk...
2013–14 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 76 5 27 32 37 — — — — —
2014–15 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 82 15 34 49 30 — — — — —
2015–16 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 64 16 21 37 27


So you think a difference 25 points or so over three years, while getting an average of 3 minutes more playing time per year makes Faulk "a couple tiers" above Rielly?

Move along...please....

Arithmetics is not your forte ?

Rielly: 54 points in 236 games.

Faulk: 94 points in 222 games.

That equals to a difference of 25 points over 3 seasons ?

Plus the fact that there's more than points/schmpoints when evaluating d-men...

 

[major major]

Marner could very well be the next Kane or Gaudreau though. I think we can agree they are both more valuable than Faulk.

Kane was already established at this point in his career (70+ pt rookie season), which one would expect - he had much higher junior production as well.

I could see Gaudreau though. But I disagree that Gaudreau is worth more than Faulk. Maybe the same value, it's hard to say.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Lmao Faulk is not better than Josi.

What is going on in this thread?!

Lmao Faulk is better than Josi.

I could see Gaudreau though. But I disagree that Gaudreau is worth more than Faulk. Maybe the same value, it's hard to say.

In a vacuum, Gaudreau is worth much, much less than Faulk: but Calgary wouldn't do that trade straight up right now, because they have Hamilton and Giordano.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

ITT I learned
Marner is the next Kane
Jake Gardiner is a top pair dman
Justin Faulk is not a top 20 dman

Faulk is a young franchise dman on a great contract, do people pay attention anymore?

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Rielly..
2013–14 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 73 2 25 27 12 — — — — —
2014–15 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 81 8 21 29 14 — — — — —
2015–16 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 82 9 27 36 28

Faulk...
2013–14 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 76 5 27 32 37 — — — — —
2014–15 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 82 15 34 49 30 — — — — —
2015–16 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 64 16 21 37 27


So you think a difference 25 points or so over three years, while getting an average of 3 minutes more playing time per year makes Faulk "a couple tiers" above Rielly?

Move along...please....

why are we still evaluating dmen via point totals? even then the gap in goals is incredibly significant. Faulk is clearly the better player.

 

[GoldiFox]

Maybe you all should open up a Rielly vs. Faulk vs. Josi thread and discuss it further there. Or a Pat Kane vs. Marner vs. Gaudreau thread to finally answer that age-old and much disputed question. Or perhaps the thousandth variance of "Is Faulk a #1 D thread" where (spoiler alert) the answer is almost always "yes".

This is just bickering between Toronto fans pumping up their guys and others trying to shoot them down. All Canes fans have said "no thanks". All Toronto fans have said "no thanks".

 

[garyturner3]

Lmao Faulk is better than Josi.



In a vacuum, Gaudreau is worth much, much less than Faulk: but Calgary wouldn't do that trade straight up right now, because they have Hamilton and Giordano.

Sorry, but you're way out to lunch with a statement like that. Josi just finished 5th in Norris voting. I don't believe Faulk even received a single vote. He wasn't listed in the top 20 vote getters anyway.

 

[Rebels57]

Lmao Faulk is better than Josi.



In a vacuum, Gaudreau is worth much, much less than Faulk: but Calgary wouldn't do that trade straight up right now, because they have Hamilton and Giordano.

How many top 5 Norris finishes does Faulk have?

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Sorry, but you're way out to lunch with a statement like that. Josi just finished 5th in Norris voting. I don't believe Faulk even received a single vote. He wasn't listed in the top 20 vote getters anyway.

On the one hand, Faulk was injured ~half the season plus plays on a bottom half team in a small market that gets no media attention whatsoever.

On the other hand, I certainly would not vote Faulk for Norris, and am not surprised that he got no votes.

On the other, other hand, Faulk was on pace to have a Mike Green-esque season offensively before he went down to injury (which is where most of the hype comes from).

On the other, other, other hand I was unaware that Josi received such Norris billing.

So whatevs.

 

[Rufus]

You have some kind of crush on Jake Gardiner

 

[garyturner3]

On the one hand, Faulk was injured ~half the season plus plays on a bottom half team in a small market that gets no media attention whatsoever.

On the other hand, I certainly would not vote Faulk for Norris, and am not surprised that he got no votes.

On the other, other hand, Faulk was on pace to have a Mike Green-esque season offensively before he went down to injury (which is where most of the hype comes from).

On the other, other, other hand I was unaware that Josi received such Norris billing.

So whatevs.

I think you have a different definition of ~ than I do. 18 games is nowhere near half a season. Josi also finished top 5 in voting the year before so he's clearly established himself as one of the top d-men in the league. Faulk's great and he may get to that level, he's just not there yet.

 

[Roboturner913]

Number 1, he isn't a top 15 defenseman nor a number one

Funny, it seemed like everybody and their mother pretty much agreed he was both of those things until the summer came along. Several "propaganda" (for lack of a better word) campaigns in the media/blogger spectrum were waged to lower his value because a few teams were supposedly interested in trading for him.

If he's top 15, I can't say because direct player comparison is unfair. He's certainly no lower than 20, and he's definitely a legit #1D.

 

[hawksrule]

This thread is a classic example of a fan base overrating a prospect. People call him the next Patrick Kane. It's ridiculous, not to mention unfair to the kid. The odds that Marner will match a Calder, Hart, art Ross, and conn-smythe winner, a future hall of famer who will probably go down as the best American player of all time, are slim to none.

Marner will probably be a good player, maybe even a very good player. But he's not valued as the next Patty Kane by anyone other than Leafs fans. It's pie-in-the-sky. Bottom line, you jump at the chance to trade a good (but unproven) winger prospect for a #1D on a great contract. End of story.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

This thread is a classic example of a fan base overrating a prospect. People call him the next Patrick Kane. It's ridiculous, not to mention unfair to the kid. The odds that Marner will match a Calder, Hart, art Ross, and conn-smythe winner, a future hall of famer who will probably go down as the best American player of all time, are slim to none.

Marner will probably be a good player, maybe even a very good player. But he's not valued as the next Patty Kane by anyone other than Leafs fans. It's pie-in-the-sky. Bottom line, you jump at the chance to trade a good (but unproven) winger prospect for a #1D on a great contract. End of story.

Pretty sure when people say patty kane they mean size wise and game wise, even though marner is a far and away a better all round player kane offense will always be a tier or two ahead.

 

[TT1]

absolutely terrible for Carolina

Gardiner is nowhere near a #2 dman, he plays extremely easy minutes.