Proposal: Gardiner + Marner for Faulk

[NotYou]

Yes they should. Maybe not this year, but they're not likely to get far with only Rielly as a top tier D-man (if he becomes that).

If rielly is their only top tier dman and they don't draft a dman first round next year I could see it. Same situation the year after that? yeah. But not now. Rielly has a decent chance at being a solid #1d. See what happens before using assets to correct a problem that might not exist.

 

[major major]

If rielly is their only top tier dman and they don't draft a dman first round next year I could see it. Same situation the year after that? yeah. But not now. Rielly has a decent chance at being a solid #1d. See what happens before using assets to correct a problem that might not exist.

Even if Rielly becomes, say, a top 15 d-man (which is a bit of a push), the Leafs are going to need more guys at that level or close to it. It's not a question of whether a problem exists or not. It's the backbone of the team.

Shanahan could have a meeting with his guys next summer, and decide to go acquire a #1D-man via trade, and still not get a suitable deal in place for years on end.

 

[Sojourn]

Even if Rielly becomes, say, a top 15 d-man (which is a bit of a push), the Leafs are going to need more guys at that level or close to it. It's not a question of whether a problem exists or not. It's the backbone of the team.

Shanahan could have a meeting with his guys next summer, and decide to go acquire a #1D-man via trade, and still not get a suitable deal in place for years on end.

This is very true. Teams are very reluctant to move #1 defensemen, and there are usually underlying reasons for such a move(salary, retirement contracts, attitude problems). You could offer the moon, and still come away empty-handed.

The best approach is drafting, or free agency, and both come with risks. With drafting, you need to be a bit lucky. Or a lot lucky. You either need to be in a position, and at the right time(because they aren't usually available), to draft that sure thing. Doughty or Ekblad come to mind. Or you need to be drafting high enough, and be lucky enough, to get that highly touted D prospect who is one of the prospects who hits his potential, and that's more uncommon than people seem willing to admit.

The other option is free agency, and that involves a combination of being a favorable destination, and paying a crap load of money to said free agent. If you aren't a favorable destination, you should probably expect to pay even more. That contract could end up biting you in the ass, because it puts you into a position to sacrifice depth to make room for it, either in the present or future. There's also the risk the player doesn't live up to that contract.

 

[NotYou]

Even if Rielly becomes, say, a top 15 d-man (which is a bit of a push), the Leafs are going to need more guys at that level or close to it. It's not a question of whether a problem exists or not. It's the backbone of the team.

Shanahan could have a meeting with his guys next summer, and decide to go acquire a #1D-man via trade, and still not get a suitable deal in place for years on end.

Agreed on Rielly. Agree on the difficulty of pulling off a trade for one. Disagree on needing 2. While Chicago has been phenomenal, seabrook absolutely fits how I interpret "something close," and hjalmarsson excellent in his own right, they are the exception recently. Muzzin probably fits something close too but there's a significant gap between him and faulk. Sieds fits for Boston. Pit didn't have the something close last year.

Except for Chicago there's a pretty significant gap between the #2 and faulk. Spurgeon, for example could be available and fits most of the examples. Yandle made it to fa who, if the timing lined up, would've for. With am excess of good young forwards, what you're talking about can be found.

The issue for tor is that chances are pretty high one of their big 3 forward prospects disappoints and we can't tell who. Say it's nylander, who winds up as a 45 pt player. Now the leafs have a big problem at forward that they wouldn't with marner.

By waiting until next summer they gain flexibility. Most importantly they get a good idea of what they have in Reilly. They and the league can see their forward prospects. They could potentially take advantage of the expansion draft by dangling an exempt guy or a high first rounder both of which will have a bit of extra value.

 

[Halla]

Even if Rielly becomes, say, a top 15 d-man (which is a bit of a push), the Leafs are going to need more guys at that level or close to it. It's not a question of whether a problem exists or not. It's the backbone of the team.

Shanahan could have a meeting with his guys next summer, and decide to go acquire a #1D-man via trade, and still not get a suitable deal in place for years on end.

Pittsburgh had Letang and no one close. LA has doughty and no one close....leafs will be fine if they can get guys like zaitsev and carrick to pan out, and liljegren/foote/hague will be on the radar next year

 

[major major]

Pittsburgh had Letang and no one close. LA has doughty and no one close....leafs will be fine if [they get Crosby+Malkin level offence and Rielly becomes as good as Letang] they can get guys like zaitsev and carrick to pan out, and liljegren/foote/hague will be on the radar next year

[MOD]
Of course there are other ways. The Kings and Blackhawks models are a bit of a stretch because the Leafs aren't going to have a super-elite Norris level D. And barring a trade, they are unlikely to have a Muzzin/Seabrook/Hjalmarsson level second D either.

That's why acquiring a D who can be top-10 leaguewide, whenever the opportunity happens to pop up (perhaps not for many years), should be prioritized. #10 + #20 (just a random guess of where Rielly tops out in the rankings), can actually be cup-winning, I think.

 

[TheOllieC]

Is this a joke??? Carolina adds significantly to get even close to marner

yikes

canes shouldn't move a young top-15 dman unless a proven top line center is being offered up

 

[Halla]

Fixed it for you.

Of course there are other ways. The Kings and Blackhawks models are a bit of a stretch because the Leafs aren't going to have a super-elite Norris level D. And barring a trade, they are unlikely to have a Muzzin/Seabrook/Hjalmarsson level second D either.

That's why acquiring a D who can be top-10 leaguewide, whenever the opportunity happens to pop up (perhaps not for many years), should be prioritized. #10 + #20 (just a random guess of where Rielly tops out in the rankings), can actually be cup-winning, I think.

I believe altering quotes is a violation of the TOS.

If the leafs get a top 5 pick next year, you think that guy likely wont even turn into a muzzin or hjaalmarsson?

Rielly could easily be a top 10 dman in this league in a couple years. his play on Team canada at the world cup was good enough to earn him MVP of the gold medal winning squad. He will likely be on the top pairing for team NA.

leafs have no reason to rush to make a move, especially giving up elite pieces. they will see what they have with rielly,gardiner,zaitsev,carrick,marinicin etc and go from there

 

[Halla]

yikes

canes shouldn't move a young top-15 dman unless a proven top line center is being offered up

those never get traded, like ever.

 

[Nucker101]

Canes should pass. Faulk is a proven young stud and signed to a great contract. Marner is tracking like a 1st liner so far, but he's not a lock to reach his potential. I wouldn't trade a #1 dman for a bluechip winger and a 2nd pairing dman.

 

[major major]

If the leafs get a top 5 pick next year, you think that guy likely wont even turn into a muzzin or hjaalmarsson?

It can happen, if they draft for position, and there is the right D in the right spot, and if luck bounces the Leafs way (i.e. not like with Reinhart, Bogosian, Schenn, Hickey, Gudbranson, etc...). And even if you do get the right guy, he probably doesn't enter his prime until about 2023, a few years later than Matthews et. co.

Rielly could easily be a top 10 dman in this league in a couple years.

Now I see the source of our disagreement. Yes, I don't consider that progression to be easy or even likely.

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

Leafs run away with it. Canes refuse.

I don't think enough folks get it but a young top tier D man is worth significantly more than a #5ish prospect. Like double.

Nice hyperbole!

 

[Pip]

Marner forecasts as a Patrick kane esque player. Is that good enough for you ? Faulk carries a big load on a crappy team. Is he a number 1 on other teams? I don't think so. Is he a top 20 defencemen in the league. I'm going to say no to that too

Yes to all of your questions. Faulk is pretty awesome man.

 

[varano]

Yes to all of your questions. Faulk is pretty awesome man.

Can you seriously say that if faulk walks onto another NHL team, that he supplants ANY of the following guys??

Suter, Pietrangelo, Letang, Doughty, Karlsson, Hedman, Keith,Burns, Josi, Subban,OEL,Byufglien, Shattenkirk, Carlson...



Or has more than equal upside than,
Ekblad, Lindholm, Gostisbehere, Rielly, Vatanen, Ristolainen

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Not trading Marner.

 

[Chan790]

I would go Gardiner and a 1st > Faulk ... Leafs need Mitch for the cup

Gardiner is literally the throw-in piece here...he's of little or no value to the Canes who already have more LHD than roster spots; he could replaced by any number of other assets without affecting the appeal of this deal to the Canes. The Canes are much closer to complete in their rebuild...the 1st isn't what the Canes would be looking for either.
So...Gardiner and a 1st is probably not even considerable.

Marner is the possibly interesting piece. The Canes would probably prefer to get back a 1C if they're moving Faulk though.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Not winning anything. Ever

I don't understand why we just can't keep our elite prospects without being scrutinized?

Matthews, Marner, Nylander. All 3 are untouchable.

 

[varano]

I like how you threw Reilly's name in there. Uhh ya. Faulk is a couple tiers above Reilly and once again, you'd have won the lottery is Reilly ever gets to Faulks level.

Were you the one who says Reilly has top 10 in the league potential?...somebody said it...all I have to say to that is.....lol......l.....o.....l


Lol

Again. These guys can be great players in the league, but pumping their unproven tires to insane levels is just asinine

Rielly..
2013–14 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 73 2 25 27 12 — — — — —
2014–15 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 81 8 21 29 14 — — — — —
2015–16 Toronto Maple Leafs NHL 82 9 27 36 28

Faulk...
2013–14 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 76 5 27 32 37 — — — — —
2014–15 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 82 15 34 49 30 — — — — —
2015–16 Carolina Hurricanes NHL 64 16 21 37 27


So you think a difference 25 points or so over three years, while getting an average of 3 minutes more playing time per year makes Faulk "a couple tiers" above Rielly?

Move along...please....

 

[varano]

I like how you threw Reilly's name in there. Uhh ya. Faulk is a couple tiers above Reilly and once again, you'd have won the lottery is Reilly ever gets to Faulks level.

Were you the one who says Reilly has top 10 in the league potential?...somebody said it...all I have to say to that is.....lol......l.....o.....l


Lol

Again. These guys can be great players in the league, but pumping their unproven tires to insane levels is just asinine

By the way... I love how you completely ignored the fact that Faulk is not better than a single player I mentioned and you just went straight to Rielly...

Again...Move along...

 

[ACC1224]

Justin Faulk



Jake Gardiner

Mitch Marner

Leafs get a top pairing defender who can run the powerplay and pair with Rielly at even strength

Hurricanes get a #2 defender with huge upside plus a Top 5 prospect league wide that projects as an elite scorer.

Thoughts?

Marner is untouchable. I'd do it with Nylander instead.

 

[Mad Brills*]

Is it me, or is this similar to burke giving up 3 picks for kessel?

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

yikes

canes shouldn't move a young top-15 dman unless a proven top line center is being offered up

Number 1, he isn't a top 15 defenseman nor a number one

Number 2, the Leafs won't be trading just drafted players for an overrated defenseman

[MOD]

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Bad for Carolina...would rather keep Faulk. If Canes decided to trade Faulk, they would get a way better/different type of return. They would be able to get actual NHL talent and not a prospect. Jones got Ryjo, Larrson got Hall... Canes would get an extremely good young top young forward that is NHL proven if they shopped Faulk.

 

[SnoopDogg]

Value is close but both teams decline.

 

[hawksrule]

If the leafs get a top 5 pick next year, you think that guy likely wont even turn into a muzzin or hjaalmarsson?

100% this. Top 5 picks never bust.