Proposal: Gardiner + Marner for Faulk
- Thread starter TSN Jdog
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bauer
I MISS GHOST
- Nov 11, 2007
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please stop. is that a joke? Seabrook is a great example of a #2. Gardiner is not even close to that. he's top 4 at best. a #2 is a top pairing defenseman. it's laughable to call Gardiner that.
part of the reason the Leafs finished dead last was because their defense was trash. if Reilly was a #1 and Gardiner a #2, then they would be a playoff team. but right now neither are that. Reilly could eventually become that, but Gardiner is what he is at this point.
Namikaze Minato
Registered User
Just curious how much of Toronto did you watch last season? Who would you have said our best defender was?
Sting
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- Feb 8, 2004
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Coming from a (relatively) neutral fan, Faulk is worth more than Gardiner and Marner.
Gardiner a #2 with upside? The guy is 26. While I'm not suggesting there is no room for improvement, by that age what you see is what you get. Now if he were 22, I'd say there's more room to grow. Faulk is a legit #1. I think Gardiner is a top 4 d-man on a lot of teams in the league, but I wouldn't say he's a #2 or even a #3.
I think Toronto fans underestimate Faulk.
Gardiner a #2 with upside? The guy is 26. While I'm not suggesting there is no room for improvement, by that age what you see is what you get. Now if he were 22, I'd say there's more room to grow. Faulk is a legit #1. I think Gardiner is a top 4 d-man on a lot of teams in the league, but I wouldn't say he's a #2 or even a #3.
I think Toronto fans underestimate Faulk.
Nithoniniel
Registered User
Faulk is a top pairing D-man which is exactly what Leafs projects to need further down the line. Gardiner and Marner is a value-wise good return for Carolina, who seem to have an abundance of young quality D-men coming up.
However, looking closer on the trade makes it look less interesting for both parties. Leafs upgrade when they need to add. Furthermore, Faulk isn't the ideal partner for Rielly. Both of them struggle at limiting shot quality, both of them are good on shot generation and are great options on the PP. Upgrading our PP options is among the least important things for the Leafs. As it stands, Leafs pay a price that should only be given up for the perfect fit.
For Carolina, the idea of trading Faulk might become enticing but I'd absolutely wait another season before entertaining the thought. You want to see if Slavin and Hanifin can build on their success, and how well Pesce and Murphy can fill in behind them. Once that stage is reached, it's a matter of what kind of return they get. Trading Faulk will only happen if their young ones can continue to show what they promise, and then it would be for offensive cards. In that vein, I think Kadri + Marner are more likely to be to their taste.
He's a terrific even strength transition D-man, but he doesn't play on the PK and is fairly unimpressive on the PP so I'd hesitate to name him someone that should be your second best D-man.
However, looking closer on the trade makes it look less interesting for both parties. Leafs upgrade when they need to add. Furthermore, Faulk isn't the ideal partner for Rielly. Both of them struggle at limiting shot quality, both of them are good on shot generation and are great options on the PP. Upgrading our PP options is among the least important things for the Leafs. As it stands, Leafs pay a price that should only be given up for the perfect fit.
For Carolina, the idea of trading Faulk might become enticing but I'd absolutely wait another season before entertaining the thought. You want to see if Slavin and Hanifin can build on their success, and how well Pesce and Murphy can fill in behind them. Once that stage is reached, it's a matter of what kind of return they get. Trading Faulk will only happen if their young ones can continue to show what they promise, and then it would be for offensive cards. In that vein, I think Kadri + Marner are more likely to be to their taste.
He's a terrific even strength transition D-man, but he doesn't play on the PK and is fairly unimpressive on the PP so I'd hesitate to name him someone that should be your second best D-man.
bauer
I MISS GHOST
- Nov 11, 2007
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i live in Toronto. i see probably half the games. does it really matter who the best defender is on a last place team full of crappy players? none of the players are that good right now. Rielly was probably the only bright spot, and even he still has a ways to go before reaching his potential.
bauer
I MISS GHOST
- Nov 11, 2007
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Why do you say that?
trying watching the actual games instead of simply looking at numbers. stats don't tell everything. there isn't one single GM or intelligent fan who thinks Jake Gardiner is a better defenseman than Brent Seabrook.
Namikaze Minato
Registered User
This is Faulk too, so obviously it does matter as hes able to prove hes a good defender despite his team being garbage.
Gardiner was our best defender almost all year, why does it not matter that he improved leaps and bound last season just because he was also on a garbage team?
I'm not saying hes a definite number 2, especially not on a team like Chicago, but he could certainly be a good, reasonable number 3 on a lot of teams in the NHL with number 2 on a select number of teams.
Cant write his season off because he played for Toronto, then have people praising Faulks good season "despite his team".
Thats all im saying
Sojourn
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- Nov 1, 2006
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They add more than a #1 defenseman?
I think you're making the joke now. Marner is untapped potential. Faulk is a proven, and already high end player.
I can completely understand if Toronto fans say no, because they'd rather retain assets and focus on their rebuild, but Faulk is already a high end NHL player. Marner is just a high end prospect. If I were in Carolina's shoes, I wouldn't make that trade. They know what they have in Faulk, and it's a damn good player.
bauer
I MISS GHOST
- Nov 11, 2007
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Carolina didn't finish dead last. they were in the playoff hunt until the last week of the season.
and for the record, i wouldn't trade Marner for Faulk. his upside is just too big. i'm just objecting to calling Gardiner a #2 when he clearly isn't.
Namikaze Minato
Registered User
Youre exactly right. They wouldnt make the trade unless they knew what they were getting in Marner, and neither would toronto. Its a completely unnecessary gamble that leaves both teams with a hole after its done.
Namikaze Minato
Registered User
They were definitely better than Toronto, but they also had a team -28 goal differential. They were definitely not some defensive stalwart with Faulk leading his team to glory. They were scraping by game after game as a mediocre to bad team.
Faulk is a special top-flight blueliner, and the Hurricanes would not consider trading him under most circumstances. He has greater value than the combined worth of the two Toronto players in question.
Now that said, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for the Leafs to deal for players in their prime out of their still burgeoning prospect pool. I suspect they anticipate another lost season, a high first-round pick, and stockpiling a few extra second and third rounders again. That might even be the plan for 2017-18.
Now that said, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for the Leafs to deal for players in their prime out of their still burgeoning prospect pool. I suspect they anticipate another lost season, a high first-round pick, and stockpiling a few extra second and third rounders again. That might even be the plan for 2017-18.
I don't think there is one gm who would pick Marner over Faulk.
Pantokrator
Who's the clown?
Justin Faulk
Jake Gardiner
Mitch Marner
Leafs get a top pairing defender who can run the powerplay and pair with Rielly at even strength
Hurricanes get a #2 defender with huge upside plus a Top 5 prospect league wide that projects as an elite scorer.
Thoughts?
I would not give up Marner.
Man Bear Pig
Registered User
So we draft the guy in the top 5, watch him destroy junior in his draft +1 season and win every award only to...trade him? Faulk is a hell of a player but it's safe to say Marner isn't going anywhere. This kid is one of the best prospects we've had in decades and with the way the league is headed, where smaller players are flourishing, you wanna see what you have with guys like Marner.
lol... Im not even sure Canes give up Hanefin for Marner straight up if we talking pure value, but maybe for needs...
jetsforever
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- Dec 14, 2013
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I think the value favours Toronto, but it could be decent for both teams. Faulk is a very good player, while Marner is still unproven, but adding Gardiner evens it out more.
Avsblitzkrieg
Registered User
that's a extremely strong statement. Considering d men are worth more if all's the same
PuckG
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- Feb 26, 2015
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He could be...but he's NOT. And for all we know, he DOESN'T end up there. You're trading for a proven thing, and a damn good one at that. Newsflash, right-handed defenseman are the single most valuable asset in the game right now. #1 RHD are a premium. The cost is more than a potential top-line player and a middle pairing defenseman.
CanadienShark
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- Dec 18, 2012
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Is he though? Obviously Matthews and Laine are ahead. I think Puljujarvi is as well. Then Provorov, Nylander, Strome and maybe even Werenski are debatably ahead of Marner, and that's just counting skaters.
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