Proposal: Gardiner + Marner for Faulk

[The Thin White Duke]

Over the past 2 seasons Gardiner has been T.O's FOURTH most used dman (he gets about 17.30 mins at ES and the rest is PP minutes). On top of that he has primarily faced bottom 6 players throughout his career, if those aren't soft/sheltered minutes then i dont know what else to tell you. You're not gonna get a young #1 dman for an offensive 2nd pairing dman + a prospect, its as simple as that.

Over the course of a season +, it's impossible to "primarily face bottom 6 players", let alone over the course of an entire career. It's an absurd notion with absolutely nothing backing it up. QoC differs by roughly +/- 2 Corsi events per game over the course of a year for the extreme sheltered/burdened players, and roughly +/- 1 Corsi event per game for the vast majority of players. Gardiner was 64th in ES minutes/game last season, 69th the season before, 56th the season before that. Do you also think that Lindholm, Ekblad, McDonagh, and Tanev were being played in "soft/sheltered" minutes? Because they played less ES minutes per game than Gardiner did last season.

You're objectively wrong in suggesting that Gardiner faces bottom-6 players more often per game than any top defenseman. There will be individual games where he might get lucky and face bad players more often, and there will be individual games where he has the most difficult competition in the league on that night. In the single-season big picture, this all evens out as has been demonstrated earlier. Your only argument is that he doesn't play PK on a team that has dedicated PK specialists and Rielly getting forcefed defensive learning situations.

If he's barely a top-4 quality "offensive" defenseman according to you, why is he not getting significantly out-shot by the opposition despite having a weak forward group in front of him, a waiver-wire D partner, while facing the same amount of top competition as players like Lindholm and Tanev? Surely there must be an explanation for this gap in shot metrics considering he's been doing this for over 3 years now. Maybe the other team just purposely takes it easy when he's on the ice? I didn't know that Belesky, Kreijci or Eriksson (his most common opponents by TOI) were such lazy quitters. Boston fans must not be happy with their effort level.

 

[McVespa99]

I feel bad for the kid, because they're going to turn hard on him when he's nowhere near the next Patrick Kane, which is the most likely outcome. They're setting some seeiously unrealistic expectations.

This. How many small skilled players come into the Nhl and are as good as Kane or even close? Not many. Marner has lots of skill but assuming the very very best case scenereo will be realized is folly.

 

[McVespa99]

I'm not saying that at all.

I'm saying it would be similar to a trade of that nature. Not identical.

-Small skilled forward who has potential to put up massive points.
-Top 4 defensemen who could step in to top 2 if necessary.

FOR

-Top paring defenseman

I think the point you are missind is Kane IS a small skilled forward that puts up massive points.
Marner is a small skilled forward that has the potential to put up massive points if the very best, most difficult, most optomistic result is realized in his career. Not quite the same........

 

[Benttheknee]

LEAFS. AREN'T. GIVING. UP. THEIR. PROSPECTS.

What don't people get about thus?

Worked great for Edmonton. So well they got McDavid.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

(...)
leafs are doing things the right way. sorry, but montreal is gonna be terrible in a couple years. good thing they are going all in now though! those 2nd rd appearances sure look nice!

You wish !

Green doesn't suit you...

 

[McShogun99]

As a leaf fan i dont do it. Marner will be more valuable than Faulk and Gardiner is just icing on the cake.

An undersized RW prospect??? Leafs take this and run. I really like Marner to but Faulk is a stud.

 

[McShogun99]

At the very least they could stop calling him a "better all around" Pat Kane. Marner has a looooong way to go before becoming Pat Kane, much less Pat Kane++.

I see Marner more like an Eberle then I do a Kane. Before Leaf fans murder me, Eberle is a consistent 25 goal/60 point player.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

(...) If Faulk would be the second most valuable piece on the Leafs, it'd only be because the Leafs traded away a guy that would otherwise be ahead of him in Marner. (...)

You really did not think about what you wrote, did you ?

Marner is a more valuable than Austin ?

 

[glucker]

You really did not think about what you wrote, did you ?

Marner is a more valuable than Austin ?

I think you need to think about what you read before criticizing others for not thinking about what they write.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

Since when does better all round player equate to better player? Marner will be a better two way player then kane is. Kane will still be a much better player though, I don't get why people can't understand basic English...

 

[X66]

If Skinner wasn't one more hit away from retirement, he could have evened this trade up a bit.

 

[hawksrule]

Since when does better all round player equate to better player? Marner will be a better two way player then kane is. Kane will still be a much better player though, I don't get why people can't understand basic English...

What's this based on? Kane has improved significantly defensively, and Marner defensively is nothing special.

And a better all around player is the better player. Patrick Sharp is/was a good two way player, much more defensively responsible than Phil Kessel, but he is not a better all around player than Kessel. It's you who's misusing the term.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

What's this based on? Kane has improved significantly defensively, and Marner defensively is nothing special.

And a better all around player is the better player. Patrick Sharp is/was a good two way player, much more defensively responsible than Phil Kessel, but he is not a better all around player than Kessel. It's you who's misusing the term.

You could read a few scouting reports on marner .....
Or watch him you clearly know knothing about marner the way you talk about hi. Regardless of the term marner is a much better two way player kane is below average.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

What's this based on? Kane has improved significantly defensively, and Marner defensively is nothing special.

And a better all around player is the better player. Patrick Sharp is/was a good two way player, much more defensively responsible than Phil Kessel, but he is not a better all around player than Kessel. It's you who's misusing the term.

yeah you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[hawksrule]

yeah you have no idea what you are talking about.

If you think Marner is a better defensive player than Kane, then I'm not the one who doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[Paul4587]

You could read a few scouting reports on marner .....
Or watch him you clearly know knothing about marner the way you talk about hi. Regardless of the term marner is a much better two way player kane is below average.

Being a good two way player at junior level is a hell of a lot different to the NHL. One of the best examples is Rikard Rakell was awesome defensively in the OHL, people thought he would come in to the NHL and be a great two way player. But he is a liability in his own end at this level and is only in the league because he's dynamic offensively and produces. Defensive ability rarely translates the way fans expect it too.

 

[LuckyDucky]

Some of these valuations for a top 5 prospect are crazy. It's one thing to say that a team isn't interested and wants to continue with its rebuild. It's another when certain fans suggest adding significantly to a proven top 2 dman in Faulk.

Has anyone mentioned the Mike Richards deal? Brayden Shenn was considered a top 5 prospect when that trade was completed, while Simmonds was an up and coming power forward. I think that trade, in terms of value, would be a good gauge when discussing a Faulk trade.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

I think this has gone quite far enough. Locked.