GDT: Game # 47 - 1/23/2023 - New York Rangers vs Florida Panthers - 7pm EST, MSG

[GAGLine]

Scoring at a PPG isn't enough when you're the 2nd highest paid player in the league and a defensive liability.

 

[Leonardo87]

Kakko will end up with around 35 points and there will be 19 excuses and 19 more explanations of how that's good for the situation he's in somehow.

Panarin will end up with around 90 and we'll say "Kakko would be in a better situation if this bum earned his salary."

We can agree to disagree but that's just unfair.

Outside of Chytil the kids need to play better and be more consistent. Kakko and Laf should be pacing for around 50 points now, not 30 something. It's either the coach, the system, the vets, the ice time, how many excuses are there? Then we throw Kreider under the bus who is pacing for 35 something goals who is a drafted home grown Ranger.

 

[Machinehead]

Outside of Chytil the kids need to play better and be more consistent. Kakko and Laf should be pacing for around 50 points now, not 30 something. It's either the coach, the system, the vets, the ice time, how many excuses are there? Then we throw Kreider under the bus who is pacing for 35 something goals who is a drafted home grown Ranger.

The narrative has formed now that Kakko is playing extremely well this year and is the unluckiest guy in the world in regards to production. I'm sorry, but like...

He's replacement level. He's doing as well as he deserves to be doing.

 

[EdJovanovski]

The narrative has formed now that Kakko is playing extremely well this year and is the unluckiest guy in the world in regards to production. I'm sorry, but like...

View attachment 640022

He's replacement level. He's doing as well as he deserves to be doing.

Kravtsov’s is WAY better than this

 

[Machinehead]

Kravtsov’s is WAY better than this

Not really.

I tend to believe that this is a sample error and not that Kravtsov is suddenly good at defense. He's below replacement at offense.

If we take Kravtsov's chart at face value, they're both good at defense and 4th liners at offense. That's why I'm mad. That's it right there. There's the whole cake.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Not really.

View attachment 640025

I tend to believe that this is a sample error and not that Kravtsov is suddenly good at defense. He's below replacement at offense.

If we take Kravtsov's chart at face value, they're both good at defense and 4th liners at offense. That's why I'm mad. That's it right there. There's the whole cake.

Kravtsov’s player card in that Athletic thing had him 91st percentile in defense & 62nd in offense. Second highest forward on the team defensively & higher than Kakko/Laf/Trocheck/Goodrow offensively

What do you mean by sample error? Like he hasn’t played enough this year and it could be a fluke? Idk based on the eye test he looks pretty good defensively, he’s usually the first forward back on the backcheck, has a really active stick and the other team doesn’t seem to generate much offense when he’s on the ice. I think he’s looked better defensively than offensively, although I don’t know I consider that a great thing. I don’t like how we try to zap the skill out of all our high draft picks and turn them into bottom 6’ers “who play the right way”

 

[Machinehead]

Kravtsov’s player card in that Athletic thing had him 91st percentile in defense & 62nd in offense. Second highest forward on the team defensively & higher than Kakko/Laf/Trocheck/Goodrow offensively

What do you mean by sample error? Like he hasn’t played enough this year and it could be a fluke? Idk based on the eye test he looks pretty good defensively, he’s usually the first forward back on the backcheck, has a really active stick and the other team doesn’t seem to generate much offense when he’s on the ice. I think he’s looked better defensively than offensively, although I don’t know I consider that a great thing. I don’t like how we try to zap the skill out of all our high draft picks and turn them into bottom 6’ers “who play the right way”

Right, it's a fluke because he hasn't played a lot and I don't actually think that Kravtsov is in the 91st percentile of defensive forwards.

 

[Machinehead]

Don't get me wrong, I think Kravtsov does some very good things and "active stick" is certainly near the top of the list.

I don't think Leon Draisaitl defensively. I just don't think he's Patrice Bergeron.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Youre not wrong. Trust me, I hammered Kakko and Chytil last year saying they could both be moved if they dont show improvement, and now they have. Im saying the same thing now about Lafreniere and to a lesser extent Kravtsov. But, we are constantly talking here about how dumb NHL people (execs, coaches, etc.) are, is it not partially on us as a fanbase that we inherently believed faceless NHL scouts and GMs on players 90% of us had not seen play until their NHL debuts? There's no such thing as a sure thing, we've all watched enough sports to know that full well.

1st and 2nd overall picks are as close to a sure thing as you get for being highly productive NHLers. The fact that the Rangers don't have that out of either of Lafreniere or Kakko nevermind both is preposterous.

 

[McRanger92]

1st and 2nd overall picks are as close to a sure thing as you get for being highly productive NHLers. The fact that the Rangers don't have that out of either of Lafreniere or Kakko nevermind both is preposterous.

Should we trade them then? I'm confused as to what people want here. If they suck so bad shouldn't we be dealing them while they still have value?

 

[DanielBrassard]

The narrative has formed now that Kakko is playing extremely well this year and is the unluckiest guy in the world in regards to production. I'm sorry, but like...

View attachment 640022

He's replacement level. He's doing as well as he deserves to be doing.

This has been the theme outside of his rookie season. Average at best offensive impacts with good to great defensive metrics. It aligns with the eye test honestly. He just doesn't create enough quality chances when he's on the ice. In the offensive zone he's stuck to the boards and he's too slow to be a threat off the rush which is where most high danger chances occur.

 

[Hire Sather]

Probably the worst lines we've had all season.

At least Blais isn't playing, I guess

 

[Fitzy]

Should we trade them then? I'm confused as to what people want here. If they suck so bad shouldn't we be dealing them while they still have value?

Only if you assume they're never going to get any better.

And I'll contend that the reality between Kakko being amazing and middling is probably to split the difference. Player cards aren't exactly gospel here fellas.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Should we trade them then? I'm confused as to what people want here. If they suck so bad shouldn't we be dealing them while they still have value?

I certainly wouldn't be against trading them. Especially Lafreniere since he's 3rd on the depth chart at LW. I think at this point neither of them are going to be close to what their pre draft ceilings were thought to be so I'm not concerned about either breaking out and making the Rangers look bad.

 

[Machinehead]

Should we trade them then? I'm confused as to what people want here. If they suck so bad shouldn't we be dealing them while they still have value?

I want to develop young forwards into superstars like literally everyone else does.

I don't think "well trade them then" is necessarily the solution because at this point, changing nothing else, I feel like the next prospects will come here and do the same thing.

It's not about Lafreniere or Kakko. It's about the Rangers. I'm convinced that Othmann is gonna come here and put up 15 points splitting time between the 3rd and 4th lines.

I want the Rangers to show me something that makes me not feel that way.

 

[McRanger92]

I want to develop young forwards into superstars like literally everyone else does.

I don't think "well trade them then" is necessarily the solution because at this point, changing nothing else, I feel like the next prospects will come here and do the same thing.

It's not about Lafreniere or Kakko. It's about the Rangers. I'm convinced that Othmann is gonna come here and put up 15 points splitting time between the 3rd and 4th lines.

I want the Rangers to show me something that makes me not feel that way.

Well then they have to trade Panarin or Kreider. Because I've been told powerplay time is the only way to develop a star forward, and neither Kakko or Laf are going to play there, let alone together, until one is gone. You can't have it both ways.

And doesn't the fact that we've developed 2 superstar defenseman and a goalie offset this dumb narrative?

 

[will1066]

View attachment 640018

View attachment 640019

Scoring at a PPG isn't enough when you're the 2nd highest paid player in the league and a defensive liability.

He's actually the highest paid based on salary.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Well then they have to trade Panarin or Kreider. Because I've been told powerplay time is the only way to develop a star forward, and neither Kakko or Laf are going to play there, let alone together, until one is gone. You can't have it both ways.

And doesn't the fact that we've developed 2 superstar defenseman and a goalie offset this dumb narrative?

No. Because those things are completely different to what we are discussing.

 

[will1066]

Well then they have to trade Panarin or Kreider. Because I've been told powerplay time is the only way to develop a star forward, and neither Kakko or Laf are going to play there, let alone together, until one is gone. You can't have it both ways.

And doesn't the fact that we've developed 2 superstar defenseman and a goalie offset this dumb narrative?

The narrative has always been we can develop defensemen but not forwards.

 

[Machinehead]

Well then they have to trade Panarin or Kreider. Because I've been told powerplay time is the only way to develop a star forward, and neither Kakko or Laf are going to play there, let alone together, until one is gone. You can't have it both ways.

Making it about powerplay time is a massive cope.

If they were solid producers at even strength and treaded water with the PP2 minutes they got, I'd be willing to chalk up low raw totals to not being on the powerplay. They do neither.

The reality is that since 18-19, Lafreniere is 197th at even strength points/60 and Kakko is pissing 377th!! That's a bonafide ass 4th liner. There's 384 starting forwards in the league on any given night.

On the powerplay, Kakko is 227th in points/60 (that's...something!) and Lafreniere is 340th out of 341 NHL players who have played at least 200 minutes on the powerplay. His points/60 on the man advantage is 0.83. That's in the territory where a civilian would do better.

We can't use the ice time anymore. It's a large sample now, and they're 4th line producers with the minutes they get.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

The narrative has always been we can develop defensemen but not forwards.

Luckily there’s no 4th line for dmen or goalies

 

[Hunter Gathers]

The narrative has always been we can develop defensemen but not forwards.

We can develop two-way forwards all day. Checking line guys and two-way forwards are in our wheel house as well.

 

[Machinehead]

We can develop two-way forwards all day. Checking line guys and two-way forwards are in our wheel house as well.

Even then.

If we had to contend with "well, they're not superstars, but they're solid 60-70 point two-way guys," or there was an indication they would be, I think most people would sign up for that.

They're 4th ass liners. Analytics. Counting stats. Eye test.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Even then.

If we had to contend with "well, they're not superstars, but they're solid 60-70 point two-way guys," or there was an indication they would be, I think most people would sign up for that.

They're 4th ass liners. Analytics. Counting stats. Eye test.

Kreider, Trochek, Laf, Kakko all have 18 even strength points.

4th liners, the lot of them

 

[will1066]

We can develop two-way forwards all day. Checking line guys and two-way forwards are in our wheel house as well.

Well, then.