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GDT: Game # 47 - 1/23/2023 - New York Rangers vs Florida Panthers - 7pm EST, MSG

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will1066 said:
I like the dig at Kevin Costner because Prince of Thieves came out around the same time. "Because unlike other Robin Hoods, I can speak with an English accent."
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i didn't get that joke until i got older, but i remember my dad finding it hilarious. the Exit sign over his head before he swings on the rope is great, too. whole movie is amazing, really. it never stops being funny.
 
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I updated the lines for both teams, question is if Halak or Shesty gets the start. Halak was first goalie off at last practice, so we shall see.

Panthers have a guy named Lion starting in goal, seems fitting.
 
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The Panthers are another team where people are like "why aren't they winning more???!!?" and I'm just like "look at the lineup, it's really not that impressive."

Throw them on the pile next to the Rangers and Leafs.
 
Leonardo87 said:
I updated the lines for both teams, question is if Halak or Shesty gets the start. Halak was first goalie off at last practice, so we shall see.

Panthers have a guy named Lion starting in goal, seems fitting.
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Why is Laf in black font?
 
Machinehead said:
It's not that they're ruined beyond repair.

It's that we seem like the only team that has to wait for prospects of this caliber to pan out.

Like, yeah, the organization has always been fine with the long view on forward development and they're pretty f***ing mid at forward development.

I keep hearing "trust the process" and the process is C-.
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I just dont really buy that they are so much worse than anyone else at developing forwards. We know the roster roadblocks they faced with having higher priced FWDs in place, and if you want to put some blame on coaching (primarily Quinn because it was the entire point of hiring him) Im fine with that too. But like Chytil is pacing for 50 points and a big bump in his 3rd contract at 23, is that a development failure for a 1st rounder in the 20s? We all know Kakko is a very good all around player and has been snakebit on points; is it really crazy to think he cant score 50-60 next year and earn himself a sizeable raise as well? Laf's got problems right now but so did Chytil & Kakko last year.

If the Rangers were hemorrhaging prospects Id buy the narrative more, but seriously, what prospect did the Rangers ruin because they couldnt develop him properly? Andersson? Please. Howden? Maybe, he probably spent way too much time in the NHL when he shouldve been in HFD. Lundkvist isnt a forward but has been a healthy scratch plenty with another organization. Even Kravtsov, everyone's favorite example coming into the year, hasnt looked out of place despite the mess he and the organization dragged each other into.

I think the development narrative comes from the fanbases frustration with the veterans being unable to get it done and overpaid, and the coach wont give unfinished products the biggest roles. And even that I think is normalizing a bit. This was probably not a post for the GDT but i needed to get it off my chest lol
 
McRanger92 said:
I just dont really buy that they are so much worse than anyone else at developing forwards. We know the roster roadblocks they faced with having higher priced FWDs in place, and if you want to put some blame on coaching (primarily Quinn because it was the entire point of hiring him) Im fine with that too. But like Chytil is pacing for 50 points and a big bump in his 3rd contract at 23, is that a development failure for a 1st rounder in the 20s? We all know Kakko is a very good all around player and has been snakebit on points; is it really crazy to think he cant score 50-60 next year and earn himself a sizeable raise as well? Laf's got problems right now but so did Chytil & Kakko last year.

If the Rangers were hemorrhaging prospects Id buy the narrative more, but seriously, what prospect did the Rangers ruin because they couldnt develop him properly? Andersson? Please. Howden? Maybe, he probably spent way too much time in the NHL when he shouldve been in HFD. Lundkvist isnt a forward but has been a healthy scratch plenty with another organization. Even Kravtsov, everyone's favorite example coming into the year, hasnt looked out of place despite the mess he and the organization dragged each other into.

I think the development narrative comes from the fanbases frustration with the veterans being unable to get it done and overpaid, and the coach wont give unfinished products the biggest roles. And even that I think is normalizing a bit. This was probably not a post for the GDT but i needed to get it off my chest lol
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Yes!!

Kakko scoring 60 points sounds as alien right now as Zibanejad scoring 200.

I could buy it with Laf and Chytil but the roadblocks in front of Kakko are gone. He's our most talented RW by leaps and bounds. He still can't hold down the spot.

Every single scout said this guy was 50-60 points out of the box. That was his floor. It's not at all uncommon to see top 10 picks put up numbers like that D+1 and D+2.

I can understand that projects take a little longer, like a Tage Thompson. Kakko was not a project. I can't buy that EVERYONE missed it, every scout and every executive, two years in a row.

His and Lafreniere's performances are demonstratively behind what players of similar pedigree do.

You can have all the faith in the world in the process, you're entitled to your opinion, but you can't tell me that these are normal results that other teams are getting, so of course people are going to raise questions.
 
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mti79 said:
So quotable too....

Blinkin, what are you doing?
Guessing? I guess no one's coming...
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i just thought of a part where it stops being funny. the screaming kid in the woods. otherwise yes.

and then Blinkin falls out of the tree because the ladder is gone lol
 
Machinehead said:
Yes!!

Kakko scoring 60 points sounds as alien right now as Zibanejad scoring 200.

I could buy it with Laf and Chytil but the roadblocks in front of Kakko are gone. He's our most talented RW by leaps and bounds. He still can't hold down the spot.

Every single scout said this guy was 50-60 points out of the box. That was his floor. It's not at all uncommon to see top 10 picks put up numbers like that D+1 and D+2.

I can understand that projects take a little longer, like a Tage Thompson. Kakko was not a project. I can't buy that EVERYONE missed it, every scout and every executive, two years in a row.

His and Lafreniere's performances are demonstratively behind what players of similar pedigree do.

You can have all the faith in the world in the process, you're entitled to your opinion, but you can't tell me that these are normal results that other teams are getting, so of course people are going to raise questions.
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Kakko was not physically ready for the NHL when he debuted, he scouts and executives definitely whiffed on that. He is starting to look like different and much better player now that he's physically matured. And let's not gloss over that last year was pretty much a lost season for him because he got hurt by Romanov in MTL the first week of the season and played through it because the team had no depth until January when he then missed 2.5 months.

Laf's performance this year I blame primarily on the player. 19 ES goals as a 20 year old is legit good. The fact that he looks a step behind is due to a lack of conditioning this summer. Same reason why Krav barely played through the first 20 games of the season.

We can agree to disagree I just think if our top guys were earning their salaries there'd be less pressure on the Kids to produce in the artificially lesser roles the organization has given them early in their careers.
 
McRanger92 said:
Kakko was not physically ready for the NHL when he debuted, he scouts and executives definitely whiffed on that. He is starting to look like different and much better player now that he's physically matured. And let's not gloss over that last year was pretty much a lost season for him because he got hurt by Romanov in MTL the first week of the season and played through it because the team had no depth until January when he then missed 2.5 months.

Laf's performance this year I blame primarily on the player. 19 ES goals as a 20 year old is legit good. The fact that he looks a step behind is due to a lack of conditioning this summer. Same reason why Krav barely played through the first 20 games of the season.

We can agree to disagree I just think if our top guys were earning their salaries there'd be less pressure on the Kids to produce in the artificially lesser roles the organization has given them early in their careers.
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Kakko will end up with around 35 points and there will be 19 excuses and 19 more explanations of how that's good for the situation he's in somehow.

Panarin will end up with around 90 and we'll say "Kakko would be in a better situation if this bum earned his salary."

We can agree to disagree but that's just unfair.
 
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Machinehead said:
Kakko will end up with around 35 points and there will be 19 excuses and 19 more explanations of how that's good for the situation he's in somehow.

Panarin will end up with around 90 and we'll say "Kakko would be in a better situation if this bum earned his salary."

We can agree to disagree but that's just unfair.
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Life is unfair. When Panarin signed on the dotted line he signed on for the expectations as well. If he is offended by that at least he has his generational wealth to fall back on. And yeah, 22 year olds drafted by the org showing improvement (gradual as it may be) should have a different set of expectations than a guy making 400k less a year than McDavid.
 
McRanger92 said:
Life is unfair. When Panarin signed on the dotted line he signed on for the expectations as well. If he is offended by that at least he has his generational wealth to fall back on. And yeah, 22 year olds drafted by the org showing improvement (gradual as it may be) should have a different set of expectations than a guy making 400k less a year than McDavid.
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Right, and guys drafted 1st and 2nd overall that everyone said were NHL top sixers the day they got potty trained have different expectations as prospects than JT Miller or Chris Kreider.
 
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Machinehead said:
Right, and guys drafted 1st and 2nd overall that everyone said were NHL top sixers the day they got potty trained have different expectations as prospects than JT Miller or Chris Kreider.
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Youre not wrong. Trust me, I hammered Kakko and Chytil last year saying they could both be moved if they dont show improvement, and now they have. Im saying the same thing now about Lafreniere and to a lesser extent Kravtsov. But, we are constantly talking here about how dumb NHL people (execs, coaches, etc.) are, is it not partially on us as a fanbase that we inherently believed faceless NHL scouts and GMs on players 90% of us had not seen play until their NHL debuts? There's no such thing as a sure thing, we've all watched enough sports to know that full well.
 
Playing time and meaningful PP minutes does increase production, but it wouldn't replace it.

If you put Laf and Kakko on PP1 to replace Panarin and Zibanejad, they would probably each hit 40-55 points, but our PP would be a lot worse.

I'm not convinced that either player, even if we assume they hit their peaks, will ever be on the level of Panarin or Zib. Kakko is looking like a decent middle 6 forward. Laf, I'd say best case scenario if he turns everything around becomes a 60 point guy.

There are points you can bring up about cost effectiveness, but NYR don't have the depth they used to to be able to get by without true star power at the forward position.
 
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