GDT: Game # 47 - 1/23/2023 - New York Rangers vs Florida Panthers - 7pm EST, MSG

[Machinehead]

Kreider, Trochek, Laf, Kakko all have 18 even strength points.

4th liners, the lot of them

In 170 powerplay minutes this year, Kreider has 4 goals and 10 points. In 217 minutes on the powerplay on his career, Lafreniere has ZERO goals and 3 points.

I'm not an expert or anything, but that's probably it.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

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Scoring at a PPG isn't enough when you're the 2nd highest paid player in the league and a defensive liability.

Rangers fans are still hostage the era when Zucc would be our top scoring with 55 points. Ppg is nothing special these days. Especially for someone like Panarin

In 170 powerplay minutes this year, Kreider has 4 goals and 10 points. In 217 minutes on the powerplay on his career, Lafreniere has ZERO goals and 3 points.

I'm not an expert or anything, but that's probably it.

13 seconds on the ass end of power play when the coach is preparing to return to 5 on 5 because PP1 failed to score is a bit different than getting an actual look, but okay whatever helps your case

 

[Machinehead]

13 seconds on the ass end of power play when the coach is preparing to return to 5 on 5 because PP1 failed to score is a bit different than getting an actual look, but okay whatever helps your case

339 out of 341 NHL players have more powerplay points than Lafreniere during his career.

Should I get some of the names?

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

339 out of 341 NHL players have more powerplay points than Lafreniere during his career.

Should I get some of the names?

who are the 2 with less than or equal to?

 

[Machinehead]

who are the 2 with less than or equal to?

Miles Wood LMFAO

 

[Machinehead]

I'm 95% sure that Miles Wood powerplay goal was against us

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

So do you believe Laf should have never been drafted , that he doesn’t have the skill set or the ability within him to play on a power play whatsoever? Or maybe the Rangers handling of him might have something to do with it?

 

[McRanger92]

Even then.

If we had to contend with "well, they're not superstars, but they're solid 60-70 point two-way guys," or there was an indication they would be, I think most people would sign up for that.

They're 4th ass liners. Analytics. Counting stats. Eye test.

What is the solution then? Everyone is an expert on development but we're really going to say "Oh it's Sather and Ortmeyer and Tanner Glass' fault" and chalk it up to there's nothing we can do about it? Im genuinely interested to know what they could be doing better because Im just a fan of the team

 

[Ruggs225]

339 out of 341 NHL players have more powerplay points than Lafreniere during his career.

Should I get some of the names?

Who are the two with less?

 

[McRanger92]

We can develop two-way forwards all day. Checking line guys and two-way forwards are in our wheel house as well.

So we can develop defenseman, goalies, and two-way forwards, aka 3/4s of an NHL roster, but whiffed on high draft picks 20+ years ago so Lafreniere & Kakko have no chance? I'm trying to follow you here

 

[Filip Chytil]

For real why isnt Kravvy in the top 6? What has he done wrong? Absolutely no reason, at all.

He has not solved the Riemann Hypothesis yet. Unacceptable.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

So we can develop defenseman, goalies, and two-way forwards, aka 3/4s of an NHL roster, but whiffed on high draft picks 20+ years ago so Lafreniere & Kakko have no chance? I'm trying to follow you here

Yes, which is why we generally are a decent team but never a true contender

 

[EdJovanovski]

KRAVY AT MILLERS BIRTHDAY OMG THIS IS SO CUTE

 

[McRanger92]

Yes, which is why we generally are a decent team but never a true contender

We're not a true contender because we gave the largest AAV contract in NHL history at the time to Panarin (who I wanted) a year and a half into our rebuild, and 3 years later it looks like an albatross. Maybe if we didn't sign him we could've played Lafreniere in the top 6 WITH Kakko (who Panarin never wanted to play with). Everyone acts like it's a development issue with the forwards when it very much is not.

KRAVY AT MILLERS BIRTHDAY OMG THIS IS SO CUTE

Lafreniere dropped Key as his BFF for Sammy Blais and Vitali swooped in for the scraps. Veteran move.

 

[Machinehead]

So do you believe Laf should have never been drafted , that he doesn’t have the skill set or the ability within him to play on a power play whatsoever? Or maybe the Rangers handling of him might have something to do with it?

I have 127k posts and nobody reads them

Let me shout this one more time for the people in the back and...

What is the solution then? Everyone is an expert on development but we're really going to say "Oh it's Sather and Ortmeyer and Tanner Glass' fault" and chalk it up to there's nothing we can do about it? Im genuinely interested to know what they could be doing better because Im just a fan of the team

...yes, I'm going to tell you it's Sather's fault.

I believe we have a problem. Lafreniere and Kakko were very good players and they still are very talented hockey players. Do they maybe have a few more warts than the hype led us to believe? Sure. Lots of guys have warts. Jack Hughes is 145 pounds soaking wet with a brick in both pockets and Jason Robertson can't skate. They're fine.

Could the entire hockey world miss a sure thing? It's happened once or twice. Two years in row? No way. Don't buy it. We've done something wrong.

This is just my opinion on the problem:

Teams have cultures. Our culture is we have the talent and we have the stage crew. You're one or the other. The talent does what it wants and gets too much leash to the point of detriment. The stage crew is expected to play like stage crew and creativity is going to be coached out of them. Unless you're McDavid, an 18 year old is not going to walk in and be talent, so now our first and second overall picks are stage crew.

The top guys don't work on anything because they don't have to, and the others don't try anything because the prevailing atmosphere around the team is that they shouldn't, because it's irresponsible, and that's why the whole ass team looks so disjointed all the time on offense. The two groups have deteriorating skills for different reasons.

That culture starts with Sather. When he was successful, he had Gretzky, Messier, Coffey, Kurri, and Anderson. That's it. Five 100 point players and everyone else on the roster was there to supplement them in some way. We have Panarin, Zibanejad, Kreider, and Fox. Everyone else on the roster is there to supplement them in some way. It's the same idea behind team construction and it doesn't work 40 years later, nor does it work without, you know, Gretzky and Messier.

Sather is still the third name on the team's directory and people want to tell me things have changed. They haven't. The same people are hiring the GM's and the coaches. The same people hired Ortmeyer and Glass to whatever extent you think that matters.

Solution? There isn't one. Sather is 79 and smokes, that's all I got. When nature runs its course, we hope Dolan gets lucky and hires somebody good at running a hockey team.

 

[Machinehead]

Who are the two with less?

It's Miles Wood.

He's 341, Laf is 340.

 

[Greg02]

339 out of 341 NHL players have more powerplay points than Lafreniere during his career.

Should I get some of the names?

What does this mean? Who are the 341-- players in the league right now who have recorded at least one power play point?

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

We're not a true contender because we gave the largest AAV contract in NHL history at the time to Panarin (who I wanted) a year and a half into our rebuild, and 3 years later it looks like an albatross. Maybe if we didn't sign him we could've played Lafreniere in the top 6 WITH Kakko (who Panarin never wanted to play with). Everyone acts like it's a development issue with the forwards when it very much is not.

Well this issue seems Easily fixable if a certain coach would do his job but I guess in NY Panarin holds more authority

 

[will1066]

We're not a true contender because we gave the largest AAV contract in NHL history at the time to Panarin (who I wanted) a year and a half into our rebuild, and 3 years later it looks like an albatross. Maybe if we didn't sign him we could've played Lafreniere in the top 6 WITH Kakko (who Panarin never wanted to play with). Everyone acts like it's a development issue with the forwards when it very much is not.



Lafreniere dropped Key as his BFF for Sammy Blais and Vitali swooped in for the scraps. Veteran move.

I dunno, Kravt and Key were buddies from the day they met.

 

[Profet]

What is the solution then? Everyone is an expert on development but we're really going to say "Oh it's Sather and Ortmeyer and Tanner Glass' fault" and chalk it up to there's nothing we can do about it? Im genuinely interested to know what they could be doing better because Im just a fan of the team

We're allowed to be critical whenever we want... but especially when what they are doing is clearly not working.

You don't always need to know how to fix something to tell that its broken.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Oh look….ANOTHER thread completely ruined by the same half dozen posters that need to make everything into a bash Laf thread. This is getting so ridiculous.

 

[Profet]

Oh look….ANOTHER thread completely ruined by the same half dozen posters that need to make everything into a bash Laf thread. This is getting so ridiculous.

Is it a bash Laf thread? Or bash Rangers' player development?

Laf is the symptom, not the problem.

 

[McRanger92]

I have 127k posts and nobody reads them

Let me shout this one more time for the people in the back and...

...yes, I'm going to tell you it's Sather's fault.

I believe we have a problem. Lafreniere and Kakko were very good players and they still are very talented hockey players. Do they maybe have a few more warts than the hype led us to believe? Sure. Lots of guys have warts. Jack Hughes is 145 pounds soaking wet with a brick in both pockets and Jason Robertson can't skate. They're fine.

Could the entire hockey world miss a sure thing? It's happened once or twice. Two years in row? No way. Don't buy it. We've done something wrong.

This is just my opinion on the problem:

Teams have cultures. Our culture is we have the talent and we have the stage crew. You're one or the other. The talent does what it wants and gets too much leash to the point of detriment. The stage crew is expected to play like stage crew and creativity is going to be coached out of them. Unless you're McDavid, an 18 year old is not going to walk in and be talent, so now our first and second overall picks are stage crew.

The top guys don't work on anything because they don't have to, and the others don't try anything because the prevailing atmosphere around the team is that they shouldn't, because it's irresponsible, and that's why the whole ass team looks so disjointed all the time on offense. The two groups have deteriorating skills for different reasons.

That culture starts with Sather. When he was successful, he had Gretzky, Messier, Coffey, Kurri, and Anderson. That's it. Five 100 point players and everyone else on the roster was there to supplement them in some way. We have Panarin, Zibanejad, Kreider, and Fox. Everyone else on the roster is there to supplement them in some way. It's the same idea behind team construction and it doesn't work 40 years later, nor does it work without, you know, Gretzky and Messier.

Sather is still the third name on the team's directory and people want to tell me things have changed. They haven't. The same people are hiring the GM's and the coaches. The same people hired Ortmeyer and Glass to whatever extent you think that matters.

Solution? There isn't one. Sather is 79 and smokes, that's all I got. When nature runs its course, we hope Dolan gets lucky and hires somebody good at running a hockey team.

I cant disagree with the culture aspect of it. But, did you feel this way during the Lundqvist years? Because the bad culture they seemingly have now was not how the Lundqvist teams were built at all.

I just can't as a fan chalk it up to "Oh well, Palpatine is in charge and we have no chance of ever winning with him running the show so we may as well just live with the fact that were screwed."

I know outrage is the favorite emotion of Ranger fans but things are good! We made a deep run last year with a team of 23 year olds and are very much in the mix to do it again. There is plenty of time left before we need to label the lottery boys as busts. It would be a unique development curve for them to become impact players in the mid-20s, but they were also drafted into a unique situation no?

 

[Machinehead]

Well this issue seems Easily fixable if a certain coach would do his job but I guess in NY Panarin holds more authority

Yeah and they're going to continue to hire coaches where their main season ticket draw calls the shots.

Panarin is here to generate revenue, not to win.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Yeah and they're going to continue to hire coaches where their main season ticket draw calls the shots.

Panarin is here to generate revenue, not to win.

Depressing stuff.