Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[Cosmix]

People need to understand that Draisaitl will demand a massive contract that will (or at least should lessen) his trade value.

I'd guess he'd ask for something like 12-14M per year on his next contract. That will be on a long-term deal into his late 30s.

Like most UFA contracts, he may live up to that for several years of the deal, but would be unlikely to provide 12-14M worth of value consistently through the length of the contract, meaning it's short-term gain for long-term pain.

Would you sign him were he available on July 1st for that kind of money? I'd consider it if we had the cap space and were looking to take the next step to becoming a legit contender, but I certainly wouldn't trade a massive package of futures to do it. Certainly not what you proposed.

A good rule of thumb is that players usually get paid more than they end up being worth on UFA contracts, less than they end up being worth on RFA contracts (due to lack of bargaining power) and far less than they end up being worth on ELCs (no bargaining power).

So we should stick to signing ELC and RFA contracts then?

DeBrincat has mostly gone invisible since his hot start, I don’t miss him on this team at all.

I miss the Detroit first 18 games Kubalik.

 

[JD1]

Yeah they'd have to move more money out.


So you wouldn't sign McDavid for 13 either? Draisaitl has some of the best playoff production in NHL history. 31 goals and 77 points in 49 games... Did it on one leg one year.

Well Bert, getting McDavid or Draisaitl is a pretty hypothetical conversation. How have the Oilers done in the playoffs? Poorly. What about the Leafs with some high priced talent? Poorly. What about MacKinnon who took a below market deal because he wanted to win. Probably learned that from Crosby. Speaking of, he and Geno took less.

It just seems like if you've got some monster contracts you can't win. TB and Vegas have some big deals but both LTIR'd their way to dressing a cap roster ~10M above the cap. Go back and look at Chicago. When guys got paid they couldn't win.

So idk. It's a hypothetical conversation. I'm not sure there's a real track record of big cap hits and winning. It's what I like about our situation

Dorion tried very hard to push this line of utter bullshit. "Only seven goals less" was repeated over and over.

The opportunity isn't quite the same though is it, speaking of bullshit

 

[Wallet Inspector]

If we tried to get Draisaitl, Edmonton would(rightfully from their POV) ask for Sanderson.

 

[Micklebot]

Well Bert, getting McDavid or Draisaitl is a pretty hypothetical conversation. How have the Oilers done in the playoffs? Poorly. What about the Leafs with some high priced talent? Poorly. What about MacKinnon who took a below market deal because he wanted to win. Probably learned that from Crosby. Speaking of, he and Geno took less.

It just seems like if you've got some monster contracts you can't win. TB and Vegas have some big deals but both LTIR'd their way to dressing a cap roster ~10M above the cap. Go back and look at Chicago. When guys got paid they couldn't win.

So idk. It's a hypothetical conversation. I'm not sure there's a real track record of big cap hits and winning. It's what I like about our situation


The opportunity isn't quite the same though is it, speaking of bullshit

I don't think the Crosby deal is a fair comparison because it came when you could sign guys to insanely long deals, but even then, it was for 14.5% of the cap which is almost the same as Matthews and more than Marner, and less than MacKinnon unless your refering to the deal MacKinnon took before he broke out into an elite player, coming off a 52 pts season, following it up with another 50 pts season, he took about the same (a touch more) as Barkov who was having a better season leading into their contracts.

I think Matthews and Marner deals look bad in a large part because Covid froze the cap. Mackinnons last deal looked like a great deal because he exploded a couple years after signing it. Maybe he could have gotten a bit more but he was never getting the kind of money Matthews got after scoring pts per game and more leading into his deal, MacKinnon hadn't earned it yet.

 

[Bileur]

It's an extremely unlikable package, not sure any teams would be looking for those combination of pieces

Strong Ryder, Halak and a 2nd vibes.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

If we tried to get Draisaitl, Edmonton would(rightfully from their POV) ask for Sanderson.

Draisaitl is a pending UFA next year.

Tkachuk, who was 24 at the time of the trade, got two pending star UFAs with no guarantee of a re-sign, and a projected late 1st round pick. That was considered a fairly spectacular return. Calgary did manage to keep Huberdeau and Weegar, but they did not get to talk to either prior to the deal and there was a reasonable chance that they were basically trading for the tade deadline returns on those players.

Draisaitl will be able to give them an exclusive list of teams he would sign an extension with, and that would make it difficult for the Oilers to build a market to get full value. He will also likely require a 7-8 year extension at 11M-13M that will start when he is 30 years old.

Anything could happen, and there could be some isolated situation that lets them get back someone we never would have imagined, but in all likelihood if Chabot was put on the table in a package for Draisaitl, he's probably one of the better headlining pieces they get offered, so long as Edmonton is of the belief that Chabot is still a top pairing defender.

 

[dumbdick]

Please no players making north of $10M.

I'm happy with our army of guys making 5-8.

 

[GCK]

Yeah they'd have to move more money out.


So you wouldn't sign McDavid for 13 either? Draisaitl has some of the best playoff production in NHL history. 31 goals and 77 points in 49 games... Did it on one leg one year.

2 year difference 28 vs 30 makes a difference on an 8 year deal.

 

[JungleBeat]

Draisaitl for Norris ++

This is Leon ******* Draisaitl were talking about.

 

[bert]

Well Bert, getting McDavid or Draisaitl is a pretty hypothetical conversation. How have the Oilers done in the playoffs? Poorly. What about the Leafs with some high priced talent? Poorly. What about MacKinnon who took a below market deal because he wanted to win. Probably learned that from Crosby. Speaking of, he and Geno took less.

It just seems like if you've got some monster contracts you can't win. TB and Vegas have some big deals but both LTIR'd their way to dressing a cap roster ~10M above the cap. Go back and look at Chicago. When guys got paid they couldn't win.

So idk. It's a hypothetical conversation. I'm not sure there's a real track record of big cap hits and winning. It's what I like about our situation

The Oilers have made it to the conference finals and lost to the Stanley Cup Champion two years in a row. Tampa couldnt beat Colorado. No one could touch Vegas last year. You are speaking about the player like he folds in the playoffs and is a loser. He's dragged the Oilers kicking and screaming as far as he could. So I dont really understand the point you are trying to make. He also played and produced extremely injured it is one of the gutsiest performances in recent memory.

The sens will get him for two years at 8.5 million he has the best contract in the NHL. Yeah maybe they have to pay him but thats ok because he is a top 5 player in the league with the second best playoff ppg of any player in the league. Batherson and Chabot make 13 million together. He will probably be looking for something close to that. Its pretty similar money in money out just have a bottom pair D man replace Chabot because he is already the 3rd best LD on this team. Leons hockey sense is off the charts he is going to be elite for a while.

I dont think Edmonton makes this trade. Chabot, Batherson, Korpisalo for Drai and Skinner/Campbell but its something I would. Depending on the pieces id have to think long and hard before trading for him. If they want Tkachuk Stutzle or Sanderson no. Everyone else is on the table for me though.

Stutzle Draisaitl Giroux
Tkachuk Norris Tarasenko
Joseph Grieg Pinto
Kubalik Chartier Kelly

Thats gotta be the best forward group in the NHL. They will actually have cap space to go after another RD.

Sanderson Zub
Chychrun JBD
Brannstrom Hamonic

Forsberg
Skinner/Campbell

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

The Oilers have made it to the conference finals and lost to the Stanley Cup Champion two years in a row. Tampa couldnt beat Colorado. No one could touch Vegas last year. You are speaking about the player like he folds in the playoffs and is a loser. He's dragged the Oilers kicking and screaming as far as he could. So I dont really understand the point you are trying to make. He also played and produced extremely injured it is one of the gutsiest performances in recent memory.

The sens will get him for two years at 8.5 million he has the best contract in the NHL. Yeah maybe they have to pay him but thats ok because he is a top 5 player in the league with the second best playoff ppg of any player in the league. Batherson and Chabot make 13 million together. He will probably be looking for something close to that. Its pretty similar money in money out just have a bottom pair D man replace Chabot because he is already the 3rd best LD on this team. Leons hockey sense is off the charts he is going to be elite for a while.

I dont think Chabot, Batherson, Korpisalo for Drai and Skinner/Campbell but its something I would. Depending on the pieces id have to think long and hard before trading for him.

Ya, winning the final prize is not always the be all end all. He's clearly been their best playoff performer and with some better goaltending could have won it all.

 

[DrEasy]

Draisaitl for Norris ++

This is Leon ******* Draisaitl were talking about.

The "++" is doing all the heavy lifting there...

 

[Ice-Tray]

We’re not trading for Drai… lol.

If he wants to play for Staios and whomever is here by then, he’ll have to come to us as a UFA.

If I was him I would just test the market and choose my preferred destination/highest bidder.

If he wants to win he has to know that his best bet it to sign with a team that don’t have to sell its soul to acquire him. The idea being that he would join a group of good players, not swap in for them.

Someone will get him for a deadline run for sure if he won’t extend with Edmonton, but his best bet is on the UFA market in my opinion.

 

[Pavlikovsky]

The "++" is doing all the heavy lifting there...

Trade is not happening, but I have a hard time seeing Edmonton get a better piece than Norris, not sure what other teams could realistically offer that would be a better center piece.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Did he really say that?

I know he said some stupid things in his time ("proudest day", "we're a team", "trust me, Dadonov does not have no-trade protection", and on and on), but I don't remember the Tierney line. Talk about desperate.

99 percent sure he said it.

and he probably meant it as a joke but it was just typical sleazy cardealer dorion type of way.

it was a lil embarassing to try and take this team seriously when this guys was the head decision maker.

thank alfie those days are gone and we can be more proud.

 

[Que]

I’d rather trade for Evander Kane.

What a world…

 

[PlayersLtd]

Well Bert, getting McDavid or Draisaitl is a pretty hypothetical conversation. How have the Oilers done in the playoffs? Poorly. What about the Leafs with some high priced talent? Poorly. What about MacKinnon who took a below market deal because he wanted to win. Probably learned that from Crosby. Speaking of, he and Geno took less.

It just seems like if you've got some monster contracts you can't win. TB and Vegas have some big deals but both LTIR'd their way to dressing a cap roster ~10M above the cap. Go back and look at Chicago. When guys got paid they couldn't win.

So idk. It's a hypothetical conversation. I'm not sure there's a real track record of big cap hits and winning. It's what I like about our situation

I think it's less about cap hits and more about the systems that superstar led teams are forced to play. A coach builds a game plan around 1 or 2 players and, for better or for worse, forces the rest of a lineup to fall in line. You end up struggling to roll four lines and thus struggling to develop a team identity. It's not a way to win a championship in the NHL, on average anyway.

You win by committee and in today's NHL it seems obvious that a team needs to attack in waves. It's why LV, LA, DAL, VAN, NYR are the odds on favourites. Good teams where no one is held up on a pedestal and buy in by secondary players is easy. And it's why TB had a dynasty, STL won a cup, LA in their prime, BOS, CHI previously etc... Counterintuitive yes, but superstars are a SMALL part of the equation. They never trump balance. EVER.

I don't trust COL to build a dynasty or TOR or EDM, I hope CHI doesn't put Bedard above all else. The common denominator is that in the NHL it's harder to build around a couple superstars than it is to build a complete team that is well coached and executes a horizontally stacked system.

If you're going to trade for McDavid fine (never happening but for @bert arguments sake), but not before you have a fail safe way to get him playing cohesively with the rest of the team. Nothing against McD but you need to close the gap between best player and worst by way of a system that works for everyone and that isn't a given..

 

[JD1]

The Oilers have made it to the conference finals and lost to the Stanley Cup Champion two years in a row. Tampa couldnt beat Colorado. No one could touch Vegas last year. You are speaking about the player like he folds in the playoffs and is a loser. He's dragged the Oilers kicking and screaming as far as he could. So I dont really understand the point you are trying to make. He also played and produced extremely injured it is one of the gutsiest performances in recent memory.

The sens will get him for two years at 8.5 million he has the best contract in the NHL. Yeah maybe they have to pay him but thats ok because he is a top 5 player in the league with the second best playoff ppg of any player in the league. Batherson and Chabot make 13 million together. He will probably be looking for something close to that. Its pretty similar money in money out just have a bottom pair D man replace Chabot because he is already the 3rd best LD on this team. Leons hockey sense is off the charts he is going to be elite for a while.

I dont think Edmonton makes this trade. Chabot, Batherson, Korpisalo for Drai and Skinner/Campbell but its something I would. Depending on the pieces id have to think long and hard before trading for him. If they want Tkachuk Stutzle or Sanderson no. Everyone else is on the table for me though.

Stutzle Draisaitl Giroux
Tkachuk Norris Tarasenko
Joseph Grieg Pinto
Kubalik Chartier Kelly

Thats gotta be the best forward group in the NHL. They will actually have cap space to go after another RD.

Sanderson Zub
Chychrun JBD
Brannstrom Hamonic

Forsberg
Skinner/Campbell

You'd need to read the point to understand it. Not only did I not speak of the player like he folds in the playoffs, I didn't speak of him at all. I said Edmonton can't win.

Ya, winning the final prize is not always the be all end all. He's clearly been their best playoff performer and with some better goaltending could have won it all.

Winning the final prize is the only thing that matters

 

[JD1]

I think it's less about cap hits and more about the systems that superstar led teams are forced to play. A coach builds a game plan around 1 or 2 players and, for better or for worse, forces the rest of a lineup to fall in line. You end up struggling to roll four lines and thus struggling to develop a team identity. It's not a way to win a championship in the NHL, on average anyway.

You win by committee and in today's NHL it seems obvious that a team needs to attack in waves. It's why LV, LA, DAL, VAN, NYR are the odds on favourites. Good teams where no one is held up on a pedestal and buy in by secondary players is easy. And it's why TB had a dynasty, STL won a cup, LA in their prime, BOS, CHI previously etc... Counterintuitive yes, but superstars are a SMALL part of the equation. They never trump balance. EVER.

I don't trust COL to build a dynasty or TOR or EDM, I hope CHI doesn't put Bedard above all else. The common denominator is that in the NHL it's harder to build around a couple superstars than it is to build a complete team that is well coached and executes a horizontally stacked system.

If you're going to trade for McDavid fine (never happening but for @bert arguments sake), but not before you have a fail safe way to get him playing cohesively with the rest of the team. Nothing against McD but you need to close the gap between best player and worst by way of a system that works for everyone and that isn't a given..

I understand what you're saying but I think superstar contracts are a root cause of the lack of balance

 

[2CHAINZ]

We’re not trading for Drai… lol.

If he wants to play for Staios and whomever is here by then, he’ll have to come to us as a UFA.

If I was him I would just test the market and choose my preferred destination/highest bidder.

If he wants to win he has to know that his best bet it to sign with a team that don’t have to sell its soul to acquire him. The idea being that he would join a group of good players, not swap in for them.

Someone will get him for a deadline run for sure if he won’t extend with Edmonton, but his best bet is on the UFA market in my opinion.

Everyone knows we aren't trading for Drai. This is, however, the proposal/trade thread, so people are discussing a hypothetical situation. Due to Edmonton's recent struggles, the possibility of being able to acquire him has gone up. Being an east coast team with some assets that theoretically could work, I don't see why we should not entertain the idea.

"If he wants to play for Staois or whomever, he will have to come here at UFA."

Edmonton won't let him walk to UFA; he will be traded if he doesn't re-sign. Also, it will likely be next off-season when a team can discuss an extension before giving up the world for him. Your UFA scenario is less likely to happen than Ottawa trading for him.

Obviously, if Drai is hell-bent on going to UFA, he will be traded as a rental. I would only trade a huge package like the Nick Paul package if it came with an extension; trading for Drai as a rental would not be a great move for us.

 

[bert]

You'd need to read the point to understand it. Not only did I not speak of the player like he folds in the playoffs, I didn't speak of him at all. I said Edmonton can't win.

You said 'how about trading for a player that has won something'. Not sure how you expect me to interpret that. I read your argument about not paying an individual too much. They get him for two years at 8.5 million thats the best contract in hockey then I explained the dollars in dollars out. You can blanket statement that you cant pay players that much but with Ottawa's salary structure and the players they would be losing they would be coming out almost even if they pay him 13 million. I completely understood your point and answered it. You choose not to deal with it and said I didnt read your point. Which is very strange considering the detail I went to in my response.

If you dont think that Draisaitl would help this team win the final prize especially at 8.5 million well I am not sure what to tell you.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Winning the final prize is the only thing that matters

I'd hate to think that as a Senators fan since odds are we die without ever seeing that lol, but sure, winning matters, but where's the context when someone's doing the heavy lifting and the team doesn't win. It doesn't define a single player when it's team sports.

 

[bert]

I'd hate to think that as a Senators fan since odds are we die without ever seeing that lol, but sure, winning matters, but where's the context when someone's doing the heavy lifting and the team doesn't win. It doesn't define a single player when it's team sports.

Draisaitl is 3rd all time in NHL playoff PPG. Only two players have better. Guess who. Mario and Wayne. To blame him for the Oilers not going all the way (despite losing to much better teams top to bottom the last two years who went on to win) is just a wild hill to die on. He also has done it injured.

If the sens had him at the expense of Chabot and one of Norris or Batherson they would be a top 5 team in the league

 

[Qward]

LOL people thinking we can get Leon

 

[Bileur]

LOL people thinking we can get Leon

Yeah let’s get Seider after that too.