Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[Micklebot]

Still. Kicked out of the top 6 here and he got called out in all but name by the coach on that fourth goal. I haven’t loved tarasenko here. Bad fit. Kinda washed.

I mean, he's still pacing at over 20 goals and 60 pts, washed seems a bit hyperbolic. Bad fit, i think he could fit alright if some other pieces were in place, Pinto back and someone more versatile than Kubalik who can defend and kill penalties.

That said, there are certainly better fits than Tarasenko.

At 5 mil, I think he's been fine.

 

[RAFI BOMB]

Kaliyev is the exact opposite kind of player we are lacking. Offensively-gifted, enigmatic, not great compete-level.

Not sure why the Sens would target him.

It was the connection to Staios and Andlauer. Kaliyev played three seasons with the Hamilton Bulldogs. These were his stats:
2017-18: 68 GP 31 G 17 A 48 PTS
2018-19: 67 GP 51 G 51 A 102 PTS
2019-20: 57 GP 44 G 54 A 98 PTS

He had a lot of success with the Bulldogs and both Andlauer and Staios would be very familiar with him. Staios might feel he has more upside at the NHL level than he has currently demonstrated. Kaliyev might also not be that expensive to acquire.

 

[Alex1234]

Get as many picks as you can at the TDL
Not like this core needs nor deserves immediate help anyway

 

[Very Stable Genius]

Edmonton and Vancouver fans trying to pawn off Ceci and Zadorov to us for Chychrun. Ugh...

 

[Bileur]

I don't think you're wrong, but there is nothing stopping them from adding Chychrun to bolster their roster now, with the intention of either moving someone in the summer. Ekholm can play the right-side if needed.

They don't have depth on defense beyond their top 4. At worst, they are going to need to add a solid defenseman who can play top 4 minutes because they are an injury away from having Kulak or a fringe NHLer in that role.

Chychrun having an additional year of term that is already cost controlled makes him a really dynamic option for a team like Edmonton. It gives them the flexibility to flip him next season to regain most of the assets they gave up to rent him in the first place.

You can talk yourself into anything. That’s the mistake.

Oilers do have Ekholm who is solid and can play right side but that same thing was said about Chychrun. The ideal fit is nonetheless a righty. Besides, if anything they need another Zub type. Not a Chychrun type. To me targeting a Walker or a Roy makes a ton more sense, particularly since their LD options have lots of size and versatility.

I don’t think it would be wise for Edmonton to blow the assets required on Chychrun instead of targeting someone with better defensive abilities who is a better fit and likely costs less in assets.

 

[BondraTime]

What’s killed the team is decision making from the top.

They’ve traded away a 7th for a year of DBC, and a 12th for Chychrun. Plus another 3 2nds and a 3rd. That’s a ridiculous, ridiculously high value of picks. Not to mention the 2021 draft where they used 3 top 50 picks and came out with very, very little.

We didn’t need DBC. We didn’t need Chychrun. That was window shopping for a big name.

Those guys we would have drafted would have 2 years and a year of development, and be ready to jump in and support the team on an ELC in the next year or two.

They need to get future assets, they squandered so many, they have so few to work with at the draft to reshape the team and core.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

You can talk yourself into anything. That’s the mistake.

Oilers do have Ekholm who is solid and can play right side but that same thing was said about Chychrun. The ideal fit is nonetheless a righty. Besides, if anything they need another Zub type. Not a Chychrun type. To me targeting a Walker or a Roy makes a ton more sense, particularly since their LD options have lots of size and versatility.

I don’t think it would be wise for Edmonton to blow the assets required on Chychrun instead of targeting someone with better defensive abilities who is a better fit and likely costs less in assets.

Walker and Roy both likely cost a 1st as rentals. That is assuming they are even available, because both their teams are in the playoff race and may want to keep them even if their names have come up previously.

There will be cheaper options, but they are rentals. With Chychrun, the asset is controlled for another year at a low cap hit. The point is that because he isn't a pure rental, I think that adds more incentive for a team to acquire him over a rental who might be a bit of a better fit. It makes it easier for a team to roll the dice on him in place of a rental, because they can recoup assets next year if it doesn't work.

 

[Dan Patrick]

What’s killed the team is decision making from the top.

They’ve traded away a 7th for a year of DBC, and a 12th for Chychrun. Plus another 3 2nds and a 3rd. That’s a ridiculous, ridiculously high value of picks. Not to mention the 2021 draft where they used 3 top 50 picks and came out with very, very little.

We didn’t need DBC. We didn’t need Chychrun. That was window shopping for a big name.

Those guys we would have drafted would have 2 years and a year of development, and be ready to jump in and support the team on an ELC in the next year or two.

They need to get future assets, they squandered so many, they have so few to work with at the draft to reshape the team and core.

If Ottawa doesn’t make the playoffs next year and has to give up our 1st because of the Dadonov trade we will have wasted 5 of the last 8 years of 1st round picks.

Thanks Dorion!

 

[Wallet Inspector]

What’s killed the team is decision making from the top.

They’ve traded away a 7th for a year of DBC, and a 12th for Chychrun. Plus another 3 2nds and a 3rd. That’s a ridiculous, ridiculously high value of picks. Not to mention the 2021 draft where they used 3 top 50 picks and came out with very, very little.

We didn’t need DBC. We didn’t need Chychrun. That was window shopping for a big name.

Those guys we would have drafted would have 2 years and a year of development, and be ready to jump in and support the team on an ELC in the next year or two.

They need to get future assets, they squandered so many, they have so few to work with at the draft to reshape the team and core.

No disrespect, but this is a bit of revisionist history.

The DBC and Chychrun were largely viewed positively and were seen as getting good younger players to help build the core.

 

[Dionysus]

What’s killed the team is decision making from the top.

They’ve traded away a 7th for a year of DBC, and a 12th for Chychrun. Plus another 3 2nds and a 3rd. That’s a ridiculous, ridiculously high value of picks. Not to mention the 2021 draft where they used 3 top 50 picks and came out with very, very little.

We didn’t need DBC. We didn’t need Chychrun. That was window shopping for a big name.

Those guys we would have drafted would have 2 years and a year of development, and be ready to jump in and support the team on an ELC in the next year or two.

They need to get future assets, they squandered so many, they have so few to work with at the draft to reshape the team and core.

Yep, just had to stay the course and be patient. Pierre couldn't do it and had to make a splash at the expense of the long-term health of the team.

 

[BankStreetParade]

What’s killed the team is decision making from the top.

They’ve traded away a 7th for a year of DBC, and a 12th for Chychrun. Plus another 3 2nds and a 3rd. That’s a ridiculous, ridiculously high value of picks. Not to mention the 2021 draft where they used 3 top 50 picks and came out with very, very little.

We didn’t need DBC. We didn’t need Chychrun. That was window shopping for a big name.

Those guys we would have drafted would have 2 years and a year of development, and be ready to jump in and support the team on an ELC in the next year or two.

They need to get future assets, they squandered so many, they have so few to work with at the draft to reshape the team and core.

Your argument is not logically consistent. What you think you're saying is that you didn't like the decision to trade those picks but what you're actually saying is that you didn't like the result.

 

[Beech]

No disrespect, but this is a bit of revisionist history.

The DBC and Chychrun were largely viewed positively and were seen as getting good younger players to help build the core.

by those that were championing the cause.. By those who wanted the building filled. By those that wanted top dollar for team sale.

Others, those who viewed the deals as pure hockey deals.. who were not preoccupied by the media buffet at the CTC, or not wanting to anger Lord Dorion and his paranoia. And ensuring they have a seat on the team charter. And those not cheerleading to make sure TSN radio, TSN TV and Sportsnet TV had ratings..

they saw this differently..

Those deals were sales and marketing driven.. asses in seats, eyeballs on media, sell the team for an extra 100 M.

a 5' 7" winger whose plus minus was ridicules, who played on a bullshit team for the bulk of the 5 years he was there.. was never worth a #7 pick.. who is today a 6' 2" Dman who is quarterbacking Chicago's PP at age 19/20.

a soft, flyboy Dman who is often injured, does not put up Erik Karlsson offense, nor Chris Philips defense is not worth a #12. Nor is he worth the 5, 6 and 7 M roughly that the Sens will pay, only to sell him off for next to nothing.

Both Chicago and Arizona sent Christmas cards to the Sens.. As did Vegas for Stone

this team has been driven by CFOs and Media Relations way more than by hockey people.

Butts in seats and kissing Butts should be this team's Motto.

 

[Loach]

No disrespect, but this is a bit of revisionist history.

The DBC and Chychrun were largely viewed positively and were seen as getting good younger players to help build the core.

There is so much in this little post. Lol.

 

[Beech]

Your argument is not logically consistent. What you think you're saying is that you didn't like the decision to trade those picks but what you're actually saying is that you didn't like the result.

you think a 5' 7" winger, who played on a bullshit Chicago team. Whose plus minus was ridicules. Who had minor injury issues. Is worth a #7?

That #7 pick is one Korchinski.. 6' 2" D man.. made the Blackhawks.. Quarterbacks their Power Play.. at age 19/20

if this kid remotely improves year after year. He will be Norris quality in 2 years.

They f***ing new this before hand.. The DBC deal was in the summer, when the rankings were established.. all the draft lottery did was shuffle things around.. They knew they would draft in the top 10..

they knowingly traded a top 10 pick... Not accidentally.. this was not a deal done in mid season and then they collapsed.. They knew before hand.

this was a get asses in seats trade.. a get an extra 100 M in team sale deal...

Another in a long line of Marketing driven decisions..

 

[Loach]

Your argument is not logically consistent. What you think you're saying is that you didn't like the decision to trade those picks but what you're actually saying is that you didn't like the result.

Are you telling him what he thinks?

 

[BondraTime]

Your argument is not logically consistent. What you think you're saying is that you didn't like the decision to trade those picks but what you're actually saying is that you didn't like the result.

What I’m saying is that the result is awful. What I’m saying is they have completely fried their prospect pool, during a time when the prospect pool should be overflowing.

What I’m saying is that putting the wagon before the horse, for the 3rd time, is unsurprisingly leading to a bad outcome, again. For the 3rd time.

Duchene with a year left, swing and a miss.

DBC with a year left, swing and a miss.

Chychrun with a year left, and a position that was not needed, swing and a miss.

Almost like we should stop trading huge packages for big name players without long term contracts.

Almost like we should stop acting surprised when it goes south.

Everyone gets excited getting big name players, that doesn’t mean it’s for the well being of the team.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I mean, he's still pacing at over 20 goals and 60 pts, washed seems a bit hyperbolic. Bad fit, i think he could fit alright if some other pieces were in place, Pinto back and someone more versatile than Kubalik who can defend and kill penalties.

That said, there are certainly better fits than Tarasenko.

At 5 mil, I think he's been fine.

Oh I’m sure he would alright addition to a contender. Even though he wasn’t that great with the rangers and you would think that was the perfect spot for him to go at this stage.

His pace is his pace but his game doesn’t help us win games. Much like Kubalik. Kubalik decent pace for 2.5 million. Does he help us? Mmm no not really. He’s playing on the fourth line tonight. Tarasenko on third. And the third is really a fourth right now with the injuries.

 

[BondraTime]

No disrespect, but this is a bit of revisionist history.

The DBC and Chychrun were largely viewed positively and were seen as getting good younger players to help build the core.

If they stayed around, of course it would be viewed positively. It’s the job of the GM, not fans, to know whether trading for a player is likely to result in him staying. The package they traded for DBC would lead anyone to believe that he agreed to stay in Ottawa. That’s legitimately the bare minimum to that kind of a trade.

The Sens have a logjam at LD, so Chych was definitely window shopping for a name, and the fact he has ties to Ottawa which meant so much to Dorion, and to accelerate a rebuild to put a winner on ice now, to try and buy Dorion more time. Chychrun for that package, in a vacuum, is perfectly fine. He is/was valuable like that. With the Sens construction, and upcoming contract, it doesn’t make much sense, especially with hindsight.

Dorion NEEDED to win to even have a chance at staying around the league. He sent out 2+ draft worth of picks in his final year to try and accelerate that.

They trade for Fiala with an extension like the Kings? Makes tons of sense. Trade for DBC and don’t have a contract July 1st? That makes very little sense.

 

[Big Muddy]

No disrespect, but this is a bit of revisionist history.

The DBC and Chychrun were largely viewed positively and were seen as getting good younger players to help build the core.

I both partially agree and disagree.

Debrincat's contract had one definite year and one maybe (the QO year) year. There was always a chance there would not be a 2nd year, and that was especially true when Chicago did not grant permission to Dorion to talk with Debrincat's camp about an extension. I struggle to view that as long term type objective.

However, if you are talking about the "perception" of fans at that particular time, yes it was viewed positively as trades that would help the team.

If there's one by-product conclusion from this is that a lot of fans don't think strategically with the long term in mind. I think the Board (& Dorion) that was in place realized that.

 

[scout20]

Chychrun & Tarasenko both 50% retained to Vancouver for Willander, Podkolzin & Ian cole (cap dump)

 

[BUCKLE UP]

Chychrun & Tarasenko both 50% retained to Vancouver for Willander, Podkolzin & Ian cole (cap dump)

I hate this trade, but I’m here for the lols of instantly flipping Ian Cole instantly again.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

The Debrincat trade was a marketing move to prep the team for the sale. I don't think it was the right move on the ice, but I am willing to give them a pass on it because of the external factors.

Remember how fans on Reddit and Twitter were excited about the team and proclaimed it the "Summer Of Pierre"? That's the kind of mentality and hype that they needed in the marketplace. They needed an increase in season ticket sales, fan interest, etc.

Chychrun, Korpisalo, Tarasenko, etc - those were Dorion trying to win now and save his job. He offered Tarasenko and Korpisalo both way more term than any other team, because the term would be the problem of the next GM. Dorion was auditioning for a job, both here or somewhere else.

With that said, I don't think Chychrun was the worst gamble, because the team was in contention for a playoff spot at the time they made the trade.

Because of how funky the standings were, there was a reasonable shot they could have made the playoffs, and that pick ends up in the 17+ range. Not only that, Chychrun had term so they could recoup the 1st down the line.

I understand that it isn't the Chychrun trade in isolation, it is the amount of similar trades and moves they made over the entire rebuild that resulted in the team giving up an astounding amount of draft picks with very little to show for it.

 

[BondraTime]

I hate this trade, but I’m here for the lols of instantly flipping Ian Cole instantly again.

Willander is exactly what the Sens need, but they should be getting more than him and spare parts for both at half retention.

The Debrincat trade was a marketing move to prep the team for the sale. I don't think it was the right move on the ice, but I am willing to give them a pass on it because of the external factors.

Remember how fans on Reddit and Twitter were excited about the team and proclaimed it the "Summer Of Pierre"? That's the kind of mentality and hype that they needed in the marketplace. They needed an increase in season ticket sales, fan interest, etc.

Chychrun, Korpisalo, Tarasenko, etc - those were Dorion trying to win now and save his job. He offered Tarasenko and Korpisalo both way more term than any other team, because the term would be the problem of the next GM. Dorion was auditioning for a job, both here or somewhere else.

With that said, I don't think Chychrun was the worst gamble, because the team was in contention for a playoff spot at the time they made the trade.

Because of how funky the standings were, there was a reasonable shot they could have made the playoffs, and that pick ends up in the 17+ range. Not only that, Chychrun had term so they could recoup the 1st down the line.

I understand that it isn't the Chychrun trade in isolation, it is the amount of similar trades and moves they made over the entire rebuild that resulted in the team giving up an astounding amount of draft picks with very little to show for it.

Precisely, on pretty much every front.

Dorion NEEDED to win now, and that came at the cost of some bad contracts and giving up valuable futures.

Fool me once, shame on you, after 3 times, you’re just not good at your job.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

What we need is Chabot and Brady to go to the gm and ask for better players for the second time.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Are you telling him what he thinks?

If you read what I wrote you would understand that I'm not telling him what he thinks. I'm telling him the point he thinks he's making is not the same as the point he's actually making.

What I’m saying is that the result is awful. What I’m saying is they have completely fried their prospect pool, during a time when the prospect pool should be overflowing.

What I’m saying is that putting the wagon before the horse, for the 3rd time, is unsurprisingly leading to a bad outcome, again. For the 3rd time.

...

Yes, the result is not very good - although the Chychrun thing is nowhere near its conclusion. That's a lot different than "we didn't need [insert player]" which is a criticism of the original intention to acquire a player that could make an impact on the roster. No one was dissatisfied with the idea of going out to get a young guy with multiple 40G seasons under his belt or to go out and bolster the team's defence by acquiring another Top 4D. As a matter of fact, most people insisted that the Top 4D was a priority to acquire.

Again, criticizing the result is not the same as criticizing the idea. One is with merit and the other one is completely against the grain of commonly accepted thinking at the time.