Proposal: Free agency edition Trade Rumours/Proposals [MOD - Stay on Topic] 5

[frightenedinmatenum2]

we won't get a haul for him

late 1st rounder and B level prospect or player

What is your definition of B-level?

Unless things are incredibly acrimonious between Chychrun and the team, we will get more than that. A 1st and a B-prospect is a rental price so there wouldn't be any incentive to pull the trigger on that since Chychrun is not a rental.

The Senators are unlikely to hit a homerun, but they will get a good return. The Coyotes apparently could have gotten more for Chychrun last year had they been able to take back money, but their budget didn't allow it, and after dragging the trade on for so long they weren't in a position to keep Chychrun any longer.

I think that outside of something left-field where it's a hockey trade, or we get a surprisingly good young player, Chychrun will return a 2024 1st, a prospect selected in the back half of the 1st round of the 2022 or 2023 draft, a 2nd round pick with conditions, and a few B or C type prospects that aren't likely to become anything more than depth players. They probably have to take back a 1-2 year contract for a player who is either redundant or not great.

I wouldn't get excited about getting a top prospect or anything, like how some people brought up Brandt Clarke in the other thread.

 

[milkbag]

Dorion admitted he didnt even talk to DBC before trading for him

What a terrible manager....DBC did not want to be here

"Why would I talk to him? Of course he wants to be here and play for me, I'm Pierre f***in Dorion"

-Pierre Dorion, probably

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Using the "team control" term is ironic especially as it refers to the 2nd year, the QO year. Debrincat had to want to be here, and the team needed to be able to fit in a $9 m cap hit. He didn't want to be here ultimately, and Dorion rolled the dice. There didn't seem to be much control in the end, although I guess people can have different interpretations of the meaning of words and fight about it. LOL.

I think the Chychrun signing had a fairly obvious risk element as well. He was a LD that we wanted to play on the right side. There was some debate (I mentioned the risk of moving him the right side) over that subject as I recall.

Oh well - its all part of being a Senators fan & glorious history.

Team control, meaning they retained his rights and could move it to recoup value. Team control doesn't have anything to do with the amount of leverage they might have at the time they recoup the value.

The only point I am making is that people misunderstand the intention of acquiring Debrincat. It don't think the intention was ever to give up the 7th for a long-term piece no matter what Dorion has said about it.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

they need to find dorion and question him in a forensic tribunal having him explain his moves and their results.

cuz this was a murder.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

"Why would I talk to him? Of course he wants to be here and play for me, I'm Pierre f***in Dorion"

-Pierre Dorion, probably

They have a track record for not talking to players, like how they didn't figure that Stepan, with a pregnant wife, might not want to move for absolutely no reason.

With that said, the fact that they were fine with giving up a 7th overall pick and not talking to the player should validate the theory I put forth, that it was never about making Debrincat a long-term piece, but about adding a superstar to energize the marketplace for the sale (get people excited, raise ticket sales, increase playoff odds, etc).

Dorion likely figured that there was a good chance he wouldn't have to deal with extending or trading Debrincat, because the team should have changed ownership early enough for the new owners to put their management group in place.

they need to find dorion and question him in a forensic tribunal having him explain his moves and their results.

cuz this was a murder.

I would settle for him justifying his moves, but all the writing is done in unbreakable cryptography, he could be known as the Zodiac Trader.

 

[Big Muddy]

Team control, meaning they retained his rights and could move it to recoup value. Team control doesn't have anything to do with the amount of leverage they might have at the time they recoup the value.

The only point I am making is that people misunderstand the intention of acquiring Debrincat. It don't think the intention was ever to give up the 7th for a long-term piece no matter what Dorion has said about it.

I get that. I would say the "recoup" part always carried some element of risk.

I just see irony in the use of the word "control" as I mentioned in my post. Control seems to imply something strong, firm and definite in my mind which doesn't really align well in this case as we have learned ultimately. Having said that, the risks that were involved were not impossible to forsee either although weren't a popular opinion at the time.

 

[ottawagm]

they need to find dorion and question him in a forensic tribunal having him explain his moves and their results.

cuz this was a murder.

Job saving measures.

 

[DueDiligence]

It took forever to trade DBC,

Yes when it was known he wouldn't sign an extension with any team except the Wings. That kills any player's trade value.

 

[Dionysus]

apparently no one wants Kubalik

Called it so long ago that the DBC trade was so bad

Not the kind of player teams want for a playoff run. More like a roster filler on a bad team.

Realistically he is probably a waiver wire type pickup at this point. Don't see teams offering anything for him at the deadline. Maybe you get an AHL player or a 7th rd pick if a team misses out on their targets and wants some forward depth.

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

They were viewed positively when they happened.

We can safely say that both trades ended up being disasters. We did not need either them, that is hard to deny with the benefit of hindsight.


Martian calling the Dadonov punishment a week ahead of time made him a 100% bonafide leaker.

I was very skeptical but that he ended up being right means he should be taken seriously for now.

He also knew about the gambling issue but wouldn't post it

 

[Micklebot]

apparently no one wants Kubalik

Called it so long ago that the DBC trade was so bad

He's had a terrible season, had we opted to try and flip him right away we may have gotten some bites, or, had we not acquired Tarasenko and he had a bigger role to put up some pts in, but we really didn't do ourselves any favour. We played him in a role he's not suited for so of course he's not thrived. At least in Det he was able to hide his flaws behind top 6 production.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

the fact that they were fine with giving up a 7th overall pick and not talking to the player should validate the theory I put forth, that it was never about making Debrincat a long-term piece, but about adding a superstar to energize the marketplace for the sale (get people excited, raise ticket sales, increase playoff odds, etc).

I hate Dorion as much as anyone but this seems a bit too over-the-top.

Seems far more likely that Dorion simply figured DBC would be a good fit and would extend, there was no way the team was going to underperform again.

Dorion is a moron but he wanted to build a winner. He wanted it so bad that he bought his own hype and silenced anyone who questioned him.

It wasn't about being dishonest, it was just simple incompetence.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

we won't get a haul for him

late 1st rounder and B level prospect or player

Wanna make a friendly wager on this?

 

[BankStreetParade]

He's had a terrible season, had we opted to try and flip him right away we may have gotten some bites, or, had we not acquired Tarasenko and he had a bigger role to put up some pts in, but we really didn't do ourselves any favour. We played him in a role he's not suited for so of course he's not thrived. At least in Det he was able to hide his flaws behind top 6 production.

I think there's a lot of teams out there who will think that his performance in Ottawa is not likely to correlate to his play on a better team. 9G is still solid middle 6 production, although certainly towards the lower end, and a lot of teams will probably think they're more clever than the others by envisioning a scenario where he bounces up to a 25G pace, or something like that. Plus, he's good insurance to have as depth gets tested in the playoffs.

I don't know, I don't think it would be crazy to see him return a decent pick at the deadline.

 

[Micklebot]

I think there's a lot of teams out there who will think that his performance in Ottawa is not likely to correlate to his play on a better team. 9G is still solid middle 6 production, although certainly towards the lower end, and a lot of teams will probably think they're more clever than the others by envisioning a scenario where he bounces up to a 25G pace, or something like that. Plus, he's good insurance to have as depth gets tested in the playoffs.

I don't know, I don't think it would be crazy to see him return a decent pick at the deadline.

He didn't have a sterling reputation before landing here, not that he was viewed as bad, but not a sought after piece. Maybe at the deadline we get a 4th or something from a team needing scoring depth or an injury, something like Sandfords return.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

He's had a terrible season, had we opted to try and flip him right away we may have gotten some bites, or, had we not acquired Tarasenko and he had a bigger role to put up some pts in, but we really didn't do ourselves any favour. We played him in a role he's not suited for so of course he's not thrived. At least in Det he was able to hide his flaws behind top 6 production.

Cory Conacher all over again

 

[BankStreetParade]

He didn't have a sterling reputation before landing here, not that he was viewed as bad, but not a sought after piece. Maybe at the deadline we get a 4th or something from a team needing scoring depth or an injury, something like Sandfords return.

I think that's probably fine, maybe it ticks up to a 3rd if the market really favours sellers. Him leaving opens more cap flexibility for the roster and I think they need someone a lot more hard-nosed than him to play in that spot, even if they don't have 20-25 goal potential.

 

[aragorn]

Why would Edmonton do that? Is Bouchard worse than Chychrun defensively?

Chychrun was suppose to be a good defensive player, but recently hasn't shown that at all. Bouchard isn't much better, but there was some talk earlier this season that Edm might be looking to deal him. IF & it's always an if, the Sens want to deal Chychrun & given Staois comes from the Edm org making a trade for a guy like Bouchard might make some sense. A Bouchard trade if they add Chartier for example might fix two problems, one it frees up enough money to sign Pinto for this yr & second it addresses the need for a top 4 RD. Bouchard is not ideal but IMO he's no worse than Chychrun & he's a natural right shot who can produce pts. I imagine they can fix the other things they need & that you mentioned with the other assets they have at their disposal. I also expect that they will look to get a couple more draft picks for 2024 with Tarasenko & Kubalik.

 

[Loach]

Chychrun was suppose to be a good defensive player, but recently hasn't shown that at all. Bouchard isn't much better, but there was some talk earlier this season that Edm might be looking to deal him. IF & it's always an if, the Sens want to deal Chychrun & given Staois comes from the Edm org making a trade for a guy like Bouchard might make some sense. A Bouchard trade if they add Chartier for example might fix two problems, one it frees up enough money to sign Pinto for this yr & second it addresses the need for a top 4 RD. Bouchard is not ideal but IMO he's no worse than Chychrun & he's a natural right shot who can produce pts. I imagine they can fix the other things they need & that you mentioned with the other assets they have at their disposal. I also expect that they will look to get a couple more draft picks for 2024 with Tarasenko & Kubalik.

Kleven and Bouchard?

 

[aragorn]

Kleven and Bouchard?

I see Kleven as a 3rd pairing LD right now with Sanderson & Chabot ahead of him on the left side. Bouchard IMO is a top 4 RD & will likely play with one of Chabot or Sanderson. Kleven likely plays with JBD next yr & I expect that Guennette another RD & 2nd in Belleville in scoring is going to challenge for a spot soon.

Kleven LD - Bouchard RD

 

[scout20]

Chychrun was suppose to be a good defensive player, but recently hasn't shown that at all. Bouchard isn't much better, but there was some talk earlier this season that Edm might be looking to deal him. IF & it's always an if, the Sens want to deal Chychrun & given Staois comes from the Edm org making a trade for a guy like Bouchard might make some sense. A Bouchard trade if they add Chartier for example might fix two problems, one it frees up enough money to sign Pinto for this yr & second it addresses the need for a top 4 RD. Bouchard is not ideal but IMO he's no worse than Chychrun & he's a natural right shot who can produce pts. I imagine they can fix the other things they need & that you mentioned with the other assets they have at their disposal. I also expect that they will look to get a couple more draft picks for 2024 with Tarasenko & Kubalik.

Edmonton is on huge 11 game winning streak I don't see them making a big trade like this that might disrupt the team chemistry!

 

[Crosside]

Chychrun + Korpisalo + Batherson vs Saros + Fabbro + Sissons

 

[BondraTime]

Chychrun + Korpisalo + Batherson vs Saros + Fabbro + Sissons

Then lose Saros after a season to UFA

Sens aren’t getting a guy like Bouchard from Edmonton, or equivalent from other teams, they aren’t going to be trading guys like that.

If we’re getting an NHLer back, it’s someone like Dylan Holloway, not a guy with 42 points in 40 games.

 

[Crosside]

Then lose Saros after a season to UFA

Sens aren’t getting a guy like Bouchard from Edmonton, or equivalent from other teams, they aren’t going to be trading guys like that.

If we’re getting an NHLer back, it’s someone like Dylan Holloway, not a guy with 42 points in 40 games.

Of course Saros would have to be an extension in place

 

[BUCKLE UP]

I am not sure how you get another teams number one prospect who also happens to be a coveted Right shot D without paying a big price. (drafted 11th overall)
Willander (6-foot-1, 180 pounds) is a strong, mobile skater who impressed with his physical play, defensive intelligence and competitiveness. He helped Sweden win silver at the 2023 IIHF World Under-18 Championship in April with eight points (three goals, five assists) in seven games.
"The talent and passion are apparent," Canucks player development coach Mike Komisarek said. "The character as well."

Sure and we’re trading a 25 year old top pairing dman on a sweet heart deal and throwing in, who will be the most coveted forward at the deadline, with both of them at 50% retention.

Nothing against Willander, but we better be getting WAY more.