Proposal: Fowler for a Jets winger

[Ducks Nation*]

I'd say he's better defensively too.

The best country in the planet (Canada played Getzlaf in the defensive zone to end the games and on the PK), Wheeler wouldn't sniff that team. Oh, and he plays center.

 

[Le Golie]

I'd say he's better defensively too.

I don't know. Getzlaf is no slouch in any zone. Wheeler scores more though. And gets more points.

He's been a bit better than Getzlaf for a couple years but some people need longer to figure it out.

 

[JetsHomer]

Fowler sucks

 

[Le Golie]

The best country in the planet (Canada played Getzlaf in the defensive zone to end the games and on the PK), Wheeler wouldn't sniff that team. Oh, and he plays center.

I don't know why Wheeler is so underrated. How many Canadian wingers have done more than Wheeler in the last few years?

Canada's depth at centre and their tendency to bring a ton of centres is the only reason Wheeler might not make Team Canada. There aren't eight Canadian wingers better than Wheeler.

 

[dracom]

Fowler sucks

Thank you for your contribution to the discussion at hand.

 

[heretik27]

The best country in the planet (Canada played Getzlaf in the defensive zone to end the games and on the PK), Wheeler wouldn't sniff that team. Oh, and he plays center.

I disagree, and using Center vs Winger in a debate over who's better defensively seems odd considering Getzlaf can't even win more than 50% of his faceoffs. I also seem to remember a pretty important playoff goal against the Ducks with him floating around the high slot while a player skated in close and scored perhaps the previous year against the Hawks? Wheeler doesn't take a shift off and his speed allows him to get back and cover defensively which he does all the time. I don't think Getzlaf is anywhere near Wheeler defensively based on the eye test. Perhaps the statisticians can provide some input there. Career-wise it's no contest who the better player has been.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Jets need defense and Ducks need wingers and need to reduce costs. Would any of these forwards work for Fowler?
Most are less than $1 million cap hit range:

Shawn Matthias $2,300,000
Alexander Burmistrov. $1,550,000
Chris Thorburn $1,200,000
Marko Dano $925,000
Andrew Copp $925,000
Brandon Tanev $925,000
Joel Armia. $894,167
Brendan Lemieux $870,000
Quinton Howden $850,500
Adam Lowry $828,333
Nicolas Petan $758,333
Chase De Leo $720,833
Scott Kosmachuk $720,000
Anthony Peluso $675,000
James Lodge $668,333
JC Lipon

Well, there certainly is a lot of them...unfortunately most of them have no value and the ones who are half-decent are no where close enough to get a top 4 defenseman

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Well I don't intend to go too deep with you here, but you don't even know his name. It's Connor. And the sub groups you've created make no sense. Wheeler is in a class by himself out of those players; better and younger than your boy Getzlaf, yet you think he's a 'starting point' for Fowler.

Let's just say it's obvious that the Jets probably aren't a team you are very familiar with.

Last season was literally the only season I'd give the edge to a wheeler vs getzlaf debate and it took one of the bigger scoring droughts in nhl history to do so.

Wheeler is good, but over a career or even last few seasons getzlaf had been the much better player. Not saying wheeler is bad but jeeze man.

As for defense, getzlaf does occasionally slack off but he is still considered one of the better 2way centers in the league... lot more to defense than face offs and back checking for that matter.


Talking bout getzlaf taking a shift off how bout wheelers series vs the ducks 1 point in 4 games and a -3... wouldn't shock me if he was matches up against Fowler that series too. For reference getzlaf had 4 points and a + 3 and also had a pretty dominating playoffs despite the 1 play you brought up, and if I'm not mistaken he played most of the chi series with an injury.

 

[Benstheman]

He's 2/3, he's much better piece then the ones listed in original thread not as good a piece as ones listed later... def not worth an ehlers or Laine... I think Connors or wheeler could be starter points if jets were in dire need of a defender

Laine and Wheeler >>Connor and Ehlers

I think Winnipeg will be grateful if Connor and or Ehlers become as good as Wheeler

 

[heretik27]

Last season was literally the only season I'd give the edge to a wheeler vs getzlaf debate and it took one of the bigger scoring droughts in nhl history to do so.

Wheeler is good, but over a career or even last few seasons getzlaf had been the much better player. Not saying wheeler is bad but jeeze man.

As for defense, getzlaf does occasionally slack off but he is still considered one of the better 2way centers in the league... lot more to defense than face offs and back checking for that matter.


Talking bout getzlaf taking a shift off how bout wheelers series vs the ducks 1 point in 4 games and a -3... wouldn't shock me if he was matches up against Fowler that series too.

Did you watch that series or are you just referencing stats? Because Wheeler was one of our better players regardless of what stats show. Andrew Ladd however, stunk in those playoffs and played through a nasty sports hernia. The team as a whole was inexperienced and just made a few mistakes the Ducks capitalized on. Every game was competitive, regardless of empty net goals that padded the score.

 

[IDuck]

I disagree, and using Center vs Winger in a debate over who's better defensively seems odd considering Getzlaf can't even win more than 50% of his faceoffs. I also seem to remember a pretty important playoff goal against the Ducks with him floating around the high slot while a player skated in close and scored perhaps the previous year against the Hawks? Wheeler doesn't take a shift off and his speed allows him to get back and cover defensively which he does all the time. I don't think Getzlaf is anywhere near Wheeler defensively based on the eye test. Perhaps the statisticians can provide some input there. Career-wise it's no contest who the better player has been.

I also seem to remember the jets not winning a game....SOOOOO??????

 

[heretik27]

I also seem to remember the jets not winning a game....SOOOOO??????

Now you're being childish. I thought I was responding to someone who said the only thing Wheeler was better than Getzlaf at was skating fast (he's better defensively). Either way, it's getting off topic even though the first post set this thread up for disaster.

 

[crowi]

I also seem to remember the jets not winning a game....SOOOOO??????

That is meaningless. Only hype and strawman-arguments are real.

On topic, that list doesn't get Fowler so either make a better offer or better yet, stop mudslinging.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Laine and Wheeler >>Connor and Ehlers

I think Winnipeg will be grateful if Connor and or Ehlers become as good as Wheeler

Well personally I think both will be better from a career point of view.... not hating on wheeler... I just think ehlers and Connor are going to be very good players for you guys.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Did you watch that series or are you just referencing stats? Because Wheeler was one of our better players regardless of what stats show. Andrew Ladd however, stunk in those playoffs and played through a nasty sports hernia. The team as a whole was inexperienced and just made a few mistakes the Ducks capitalized on. Every game was competitive, regardless of empty net goals that padded the score.

I didn't say it wasn't, I just said getzlaf out performed him... and if I remember correctly the over rated Fowler was out against wheeler a lot.

 

[heretik27]

I didn't say it wasn't, I just said getzlaf out performed him... and if I remember correctly the over rated Fowler was out against wheeler a lot.

Getzlaf played alright the first two games, but disappeared in the series after that. Perry, Kesler, and Silfverberg were the stars offensively for that Ducks team in our series and your goalie played great.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Getzlaf played alright the first two games, but disappeared in the series after that. Perry, Kesler, and Silfverberg were the stars offensively for that Ducks team in our series and your goalie played great.

The good thing bout getzlaf is even if he's not on score sheet he's still a hell of a lot to deal with in all 3 zones. I'll be the first to admit he takes shifts off maybe zones out on a play here or there which is irritating but when he's on he's a top 5 player in the league... he just seems unmotivated at time.

The point was I don't think wheeler is in the same category as a getzlaf yet... he's had 1 big season and a bunch of very good seasons but getzlaf is pretty close to a career ppg player on regular season and post season while being one of the better defensive centers in the league.


As for the actual topic I feel like the ask would be Connor and like I said I understand if jets say no but I think you guys would ask for a pretty similar value with trouba if not more and they are pretty comparable as far as value goes.

 

[heretik27]

The good thing bout getzlaf is even if he's not on score sheet he's still a hell of a lot to deal with in all 3 zones. I'll be the first to admit he takes shifts off maybe zones out on a play here or there which is irritating but when he's on he's a top 5 player in the league... he just seems unmotivated at time.

The point was I don't think wheeler is in the same category as a getzlaf yet... he's had 1 big season and a bunch of very good seasons but getzlaf is pretty close to a career ppg player on regular season and post season while being one of the better defensive centers in the league.


As for the actual topic I feel like the ask would be Connor and like I said I understand if jets say no but I think you guys would ask for a pretty similar value with trouba if not more and they are pretty comparable as far as value goes.

Difference is Trouba is RFA and Fowler won't be in 2 years. The team getting Trouba has another 4 years of RFA status with him if memory serves me right.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Difference is Trouba is RFA and Fowler won't be in 2 years. The team getting Trouba has another 4 years of RFA status with him if memory serves me right.

Yes but also demanded a trade and depending on his demands as far as money goes could be a negative on his actual value

 

[heretik27]

Yes but also demanded a trade and depending on his demands as far as money goes could be a negative on his actual value

I feel like we'll see him sign before he's traded, giving other teams a much better idea on his actual trade value.

 

[johna2626]

Overvalue or not, none of those listed players is enough for Fowler 1 for 1

But what about ALL the forwards listed for Fowler???

 

[KaseMeOutside]

I don't know. Getzlaf is no slouch in any zone. Wheeler scores more though. And gets more points.

He's been a bit better than Getzlaf for a couple years but some people need longer to figure it out.

blake wheeler has been in the league 8 years

he has outscored getzlaf two times

"been better than getzlaf for a couple years"

uh no you may want to do some actual research

the only years wheeler has ever outscored getzlaf is when his shooting %'s were well below his career norms.

in the last 4 years getzlaf has had 3 top 7 hart finishes, wheeler has never even been in the top 20 one time in his career

 

[KaseMeOutside]

I also seem to remember the jets not winning a game....SOOOOO??????

oh yeah the series where jets fans tried to convince everyone before hand that adam lowry would shut down the ducks top line and that bryan little was better than kesler

 

[Halla]

if the jets wanted fowler, start with connor and add

 

[Jeti]

if the jets wanted fowler, start with connor and add

I wouldn't be surprised if Connor is one of the best rookies this year. Granted, he's a year older, but he may adjust to the NHL faster than Laine. He's no average prospect. In a re-draft he goes much higher.

The problem isn't that Fowler wouldn't be a good #3 for the Jets, or that they don't have wingers to spare. The Jets have elite (or potentially elite) wingers in Wheeler, Laine, Connor and Ehlers. Fowler isn't worth Connor or Ehlers due to having two years until he's a UFA. If Fowler was signed 4+ years, he'd fetch Connor or Ehlers. Under no circumstances would he fetch Wheeler or Laine. Wheeler and Laine are approximately equal to Taylor Hall in trade value (give or take, Wheeler is better, Laine is cheaper for longer and could be better) and Hall went for a better player than Fowler in what was widely considered an overpayment due to team need.

Laine for Lindholm would be an interesting discussion, though I'd assume both sides stick with their player.

The Jets' lesser wingers/prospects as listed in the OP aren't at all worth Fowler. So it's not a good fit only due to big gaps in trade value.