Proposal: Fowler for a Jets winger

[Ducks in a row]

No single fan speaks for any fan base. But I do agree Fowler has some very good analytics/results for a few metrics and some analytics/metrics close to Stuart. There are multiple reasons why most Jets fans have zero interest in Fowler.

Expansion - Not protecting five D

Contract - Two years before he bolts via UFA. This team is one that depends on D&D and retaining rfas.....not by signing ufas

Role - IMO Fowler wheel house is offense, we have Buff signed long term......Fowler isn't replacing Buff on the top pairing in that role. We need more a defensive D or at most a good two way D with Buff, Fowler isn't that.

Cost - Why would we overpay for Fowler for two years service?

Window - Our window doesn't even open until Fowler is long gone. Next two years for the Jets is transforming the team from older players to young ones. We're starting line up has 4 rookies, plus our two goalies are very new...basically rookies or at least very little experience.

We have no generally accepted opinion on our board about how the Jets will do this year with so many young/rookie players but I think it's fair to say we won't be a playoff team during this growing process. Some have picked bottom five finish, IMO we will be bottom 10 finish. There's no big expectations to win this year or become a playoff team. Most realize this is a transition year.


Thus why blow good young assets on a D (regardless how you view him) for two years when there isn't any big expectations to contend in that period? If we were a few years from now, my answer likely be very different.

Fowler role on the Ducks a very good team has been leading a defense pair while having 3rd pair quality defense partner and getting less offensive zone starts while facing opposing teams scorers. Fowler is a two-way defenseman not a offensive defenseman like some people think start saying that and it is clear that knowledge of him is lacking. Have him play with someone who is a legit top 4 quality defenseman especially one who has size and is physical things should work out well. Fowler - Byfuglien can be a good defense pair.

 

[nbducksfan19]

I understand that, but I haven't called him that once. If you don't believe me find me one post where I called bottom pairing or equal to Stuart.

I don't hate Fowler, he's just a poor fit on our team for several reasons, thus I wouldn't give up much for him. I do a knowledge that most Ducks fans have a slightly higher opinion of him then I do, but we're talking about the differerce between 1st & 2nd pairing.......ive never stated bottom pairing.

That's all well and fine, but there is a big difference between what You or the Jets would give up for him and what he is worth. You stated for the beginning that you know ducks fans "overvalue him (fowler)" which is not really true. Your designation for what he is worth to the Jets is under what Fowler's worth is to other teams, hence it is you who undervalues him. The ducks don't have to Trade Fowler for the Jets, and frankly I don't think it is possible they would, if in fact, the Jets need for a 2-4 Dman with his contract status is so low. We wouldn't give up much of anything for Big Buff or Trouba because we have no need for him and he isn't a fit for our team. However, they are worth a heck of a lot more than we would give, so I wouldn't say they are Jets fans overvalue them because they won't trade them to the ducks for a B prospect.

 

[Hunter368]

Fowler role on the Ducks a very good team has been leading a defense pair while having 3rd pair quality defense partner and getting less offensive zone starts while facing opposing teams scorers. Fowler is a two-way defenseman not a offensive defenseman like some people think start saying that and it is clear that knowledge of him is lacking. Have him play with someone who is a legit top 4 quality defenseman especially one who has size and is physical things should work out well. Fowler - Byfuglien can be a good defense pair.

Just clarifying one thing, I never stated he is playing a offensive role now.....i said that IMO that's his biggest or one of his biggest assets is his offensive side. I agree he's being asked to play outside his comfort zone on the defensive side which I don't think is ideal (not saying he's bad, just not ideal usage).

I'm not sure about buff/fowler pairing I think they're too similar strengths.

 

[Hunter368]

That's all well and fine, but there is a big difference between what You or the Jets would give up for him and what he is worth. You stated for the beginning that you know ducks fans "overvalue him (fowler)" which is not really true. Your designation for what he is worth to the Jets is under what Fowler's worth is to other teams, hence it is you who undervalues him. The ducks don't have to Trade Fowler for the Jets, and frankly I don't think it is possible they would, if in fact, the Jets need for a 2-4 Dman with his contract status is so low. We wouldn't give up much of anything for Big Buff or Trouba because we have no need for him and he isn't a fit for our team. However, they are worth a heck of a lot more than we would give, so I wouldn't say they are Jets fans overvalue them because they won't trade them to the ducks for a B prospect.

IMO there are a couple points there. One, what I would give up for fowler......yes it's less Then what you would want or could get from a different team. I never said it's what he's worth around the NHL, just to the Jets.

Yes I feel duck fans overvalued him, many of you think he's a top pairing guy. IMO he's 2nd pairing. We can agree to disagree

 

[nbducksfan19]

Just clarifying one thing, I never stated he is playing a offensive role now.....i said that IMO that's his biggest or one of his biggest assets is his offensive side. I agree he's being asked to play outside his comfort zone on the defensive side which I don't think is ideal (not saying he's bad, just not ideal usage).

I'm not sure about buff/fowler pairing I think they're too similar strengths.

Ya, I really don't think you know Fowler's game.

 

[nbducksfan19]

IMO there are a couple points there. One, what I would give up for fowler......yes it's less Then what you would want or could get from a different team. I never said it's what he's worth around the NHL, just to the Jets.

Yes I feel duck fans overvalued him, many of you think he's a top pairing guy. IMO he's 2nd pairing. We can agree to disagree

First, you have made several claims of what Fowler is worth - never once did you clarify that what you meant was strictly what he is worth to the Jets (Which is well under his actual worth)/ I said I think he is a #2-4. I think he would be a great #2 to play along a true #1 (Franchise type) or a very good 2nd paring 2 Dman - I feel very strongly that I do not overvalue him.

 

[Hunter368]

First, you have made several claims of what Fowler is worth - never once did you clarify that what you meant was strictly what he is worth to the Jets (Which is well under his actual worth)/ I said I think he is a #2-4. I think he would be a great #2 to play along a true #1 (Franchise type) or a very good 2nd paring 2 Dman - I feel very strongly that I do not overvalue him.

Of course I was only speaking from a jets POV how would i know how other teams value him or their situation to determine what they would offer? I think you just being arguementative now, other ducks fans like dracom and ducks in a row seem to understand my points but you seem to want to argue in a circle about I not sure what or why.....not to mention take random pop shots at jet players even when I've not done the same about ducks players.

This will be my last to you on the matter, b/c you just want to argue which I have no time for. Cheers all the best to you and ducks.

 

[CaptainChef]

Fowler role on the Ducks a very good team has been leading a defense pair while having 3rd pair quality defense partner and getting less offensive zone starts while facing opposing teams scorers. Fowler is a two-way defenseman not a offensive defenseman like some people think start saying that and it is clear that knowledge of him is lacking. Have him play with someone who is a legit top 4 quality defenseman especially one who has size and is physical things should work out well. Fowler - Byfuglien can be a good defense pair.

http://public.tableau.com/shared/SC589PYKF?:display_count=yes

Without seeing Fowler play on a regular basis, this is part of the reason why I'm not keen on Fowler. Yes, I know that Hero charts leave much to be desired (particularly for D-men), and I don't really buy into Myers looking this bad either, but looking at these charts it would be very hard to argue that Fowler is better than Myers or that he is a quality defenseman.

So yes he is playing with a bad partner, and yes he has less offensive zone starts than defensive, but I'd hardly give him anywhere near a high grade based on his possession stats. Not sure how you can argue that he is a "very good 2-way defenseman".

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

Fowler is a very good young defenseman. Stats should be used in combination with watching the player, not as a substitute.

 

[Duck Off]

Fowler is a very good young defenseman. Stats should be used in combination with watching the player, not as a substitute.

agreed, but don't bother. Some can't/won't see past it.

It's telling when many Duck fans are saying that Lindholm is very overrated here, and Fowler is very underrated.

And before someone says something: No, I wouldn't trade Lindholm. I prefer not to trade Fowler either.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Of course I was only speaking from a jets POV how would i know how other teams value him or their situation to determine what they would offer? I think you just being arguementative now, other ducks fans like dracom and ducks in a row seem to understand my points but you seem to want to argue in a circle about I not sure what or why.....not to mention take random pop shots at jet players even when I've not done the same about ducks players.

This will be my last to you on the matter, b/c you just want to argue which I have no time for. Cheers all the best to you and ducks.

Haha, pot meet kettle....

I don't need to know what other teams would offer for Trouba to know that the ducks would likely offer is below his market worth, as the ducks do not have the same need for him other teams will - it is really very simple. You, however, do not treat the Fowler subject the same way and then act surprised when we wouldn't want to trade Fowler for a B prospect.

 

[Hunter368]

Fowler is a very good young defenseman. Stats should be used in combination with watching the player, not as a substitute.

Completely agree

 

[Bust]

Please, give your head a shake. You don't get those guys for Lindholm who is twice the player Fowler is. This is why this conversation with Ducks fans is so much fun.

Lindholm is more valuable than any of those players.

 

[Ducks in a row]

Just clarifying one thing, I never stated he is playing a offensive role now.....i said that IMO that's his biggest or one of his biggest assets is his offensive side. I agree he's being asked to play outside his comfort zone on the defensive side which I don't think is ideal (not saying he's bad, just not ideal usage).

I'm not sure about buff/fowler pairing I think they're too similar strengths.

They are not too similar in strengths you clearly don't know much about Fowler that much is obvious.

http://public.tableau.com/shared/SC589PYKF?:display_count=yes

Without seeing Fowler play on a regular basis, this is part of the reason why I'm not keen on Fowler. Yes, I know that Hero charts leave much to be desired (particularly for D-men), and I don't really buy into Myers looking this bad either, but looking at these charts it would be very hard to argue that Fowler is better than Myers or that he is a quality defenseman.

So yes he is playing with a bad partner, and yes he has less offensive zone starts than defensive, but I'd hardly give him anywhere near a high grade based on his possession stats. Not sure how you can argue that he is a "very good 2-way defenseman".

This right here is the problem those damn hero charts Schultz > Fowler according to them which is crazy Fowler is a much better overall defenseman then Schultz. Fowler is a good two-way defenseman but those charts make you think he is only good for offensive production.