First look at the All or Nothing Amazon Prime show

[FiveHoleo]

I hate to be that guy, but they said that the Sault won 4 division titles with Dubas as the GM and he was only there for 3 seasons. One of them the Sault missed the playoffs. I don't think they did a very good job describing the Dubas OHL experience. Here's a fun fact: the year Dubas missed the playoffs with the Sault he traded 9 assets to Windsor for Jack Campbell, a veteran goalie. The Spitfires are still enjoying the fruits of that deal today, that's how generous our wonderboy GM is!

 

[Brown Dog]

I'm bewildered that you could come to that conclusion.

Keefe saw the work ethic problems all season and knew it would bite them in the ass in the playoffs. The team didn't listen though. Had a "Meh, we're winning, so why change?" attitude.

True. But I don't think it was an issue of desire. I think they just assumed that they would be able to translate the results from the regular season when the page turned to the postseason. Maybe they were overconfident.

Keefe identified the problem and tried to warn them about the importance of playoff habits and they didn't heed it. And when the tide turned on them toward the end of the series, they were devastated to find they didn't have the answers.

Obviously we'll see what this core is made of in how they respond with a new opportunity this year.

 

[Pookie]

Keefe identified the problem and tried to warn them about the importance of playoff habits and they didn't heed it. And when the tide turned on them toward the end of the series, they were devastated to find they didn't have the answers.

Obviously we'll see what this core is made of in how they respond with a new opportunity this year.

We’ve already seen how they respond.

“We always come back to the three guys with the most talent because that’s what we are enamoured with. But the way they can help themselves is by competing and becoming more consistent, by becoming better pros, by training harder. When you do it right every single day — when you come to practice and you’re detailed-oriented and competitive — when the game starts, it just happens naturally. Your habits in your life have got to become like that for you to be successful on a regular basis. Willy is a great kid who wants to be good. They’re all great kids. But he’s a great kid who wants to be good and he wants more. I like the fact that he wants more.

Those guys who went through… I don’t know how many points they had in the regular season; around 60-something, or whatever. Matty scored at probably the highest rate per game. I think Mitch led us in scoring, and Willy is right there. When you go through the playoffs, though, because you played such a short time, you go – geez, I wanted more from myself. That is the part that makes guys want more. That is what he is going to do. He’s going to commit to doing that. We just talked about this a minute ago. He wants to be a better player and we want him to be a better player, so it works out for both of us.”

Mike Babcock - April 27, 2018​

 

[Menzinger]

We’ve already seen how they respond.

“We always come back to the three guys with the most talent because that’s what we are enamoured with. But the way they can help themselves is by competing and becoming more consistent, by becoming better pros, by training harder. When you do it right every single day — when you come to practice and you’re detailed-oriented and competitive — when the game starts, it just happens naturally. Your habits in your life have got to become like that for you to be successful on a regular basis. Willy is a great kid who wants to be good. They’re all great kids. But he’s a great kid who wants to be good and he wants more. I like the fact that he wants more.

Those guys who went through… I don’t know how many points they had in the regular season; around 60-something, or whatever. Matty scored at probably the highest rate per game. I think Mitch led us in scoring, and Willy is right there. When you go through the playoffs, though, because you played such a short time, you go – geez, I wanted more from myself. That is the part that makes guys want more. That is what he is going to do. He’s going to commit to doing that. We just talked about this a minute ago. He wants to be a better player and we want him to be a better player, so it works out for both of us.”

Mike Babcock - April 27, 2018​

Do you think young players are incapable of learning from experience?

 

[Pookie]

Do you think young players are incapable of learning from experience?

Young players in general? Sure.

Ours?

It’s been 3 years with the same “teaching” from 2 different coaches. Maybe they are capable but clearly they haven’t.

Right?

 

[egd27]

Do you think young players are incapable of learning from experience?

Not incapable, but they have to be willing to turn the learnings into future actions.

How many "experiences" do you think should occur in order to effect the positive changes?

 

[Martin Skoula]

We’ve already seen how they respond.

“We always come back to the three guys with the most talent because that’s what we are enamoured with. But the way they can help themselves is by competing and becoming more consistent, by becoming better pros, by training harder. When you do it right every single day — when you come to practice and you’re detailed-oriented and competitive — when the game starts, it just happens naturally. Your habits in your life have got to become like that for you to be successful on a regular basis. Willy is a great kid who wants to be good. They’re all great kids. But he’s a great kid who wants to be good and he wants more. I like the fact that he wants more.

Those guys who went through… I don’t know how many points they had in the regular season; around 60-something, or whatever. Matty scored at probably the highest rate per game. I think Mitch led us in scoring, and Willy is right there. When you go through the playoffs, though, because you played such a short time, you go – geez, I wanted more from myself. That is the part that makes guys want more. That is what he is going to do. He’s going to commit to doing that. We just talked about this a minute ago. He wants to be a better player and we want him to be a better player, so it works out for both of us.”

Mike Babcock - April 27, 2018​

The guy he's talking about is now probably in the best shape on our team, the first on/last off the ice at practice, and probably our most responsible forward with the puck. Which of the habits mentioned do you think are holding Nylander back? Did you just see the word habits and find the first thing that came up on Google as a gotcha?

Keefe talking about on-ice habits is a completely different topic than what Babcock was talking about. Good pros get studied and shut down too. Plenty of them have also missed open nets by inches or gotten robbed, meanwhile Phil Kessel is going PPG eating hot dogs on the bench.

 

[Menzinger]

Not incapable, but they have to be willing to turn the learnings into future actions.

How many "experiences" do you think should occur in order to effect the positive changes?

I don't think 24/5 year olds should be viewed as finished products, certainly when it comes to the mental aspects of the game.

 

[egd27]

The guy he's talking about is now probably in the best shape on our team, the first on/last off the ice at practice, and probably our most responsible forward with the puck. Which of the habits mentioned do you think are holding Nylander back? Did you just see the word habits and find the first thing that came up on Google as a gotcha?

Keefe talking about on-ice habits is a completely different topic than what Babcock was talking about. Good pros get studied and shut down too. Plenty of them have also missed open nets by inches or gotten robbed, meanwhile Phil Kessel is going PPG eating hot dogs on the bench.

Ummm.....the post was praising Nylander's desire to work at being better. What did you think it said?

 

[egd27]

I don't think 24/5 year olds should be viewed as finished products, certainly when it comes to the mental aspects of the game.

Fine.

But how many times do you think they are going to need to "experience" these failures before it starts sinking in, because the evidence seems to suggest it hasn't yet.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Ummm.....the post was praising Nylander's desire to work at being better. What did you think it said?

Considering Pookie is arguing that they haven't learned from the Babcock days despite Nylander today being the exact posterchild of what he wanted, he might want to use a different article to make that argument.

 

[Pookie]

The guy he's talking about is now probably in the best shape on our team, the first on/last off the ice at practice, and probably our most responsible forward with the puck. Which of the habits mentioned do you think are holding Nylander back? Did you just see the word habits and find the first thing that came up on Google as a gotcha?

Keefe talking about on-ice habits is a completely different topic than what Babcock was talking about. Good pros get studied and shut down too. Plenty of them have also missed open nets by inches or gotten robbed, meanwhile Phil Kessel is going PPG eating hot dogs on the bench.

Yawn

Not interested in a never ending debate with you. If you don’t think Babcock preached defensive responsibilities and on ice effort... you were either asleep or are purposely being difficult.

Either way, it’s tiring and a waste of time.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Yawn

Not interested in a never ending debate with you. If you don’t think Babcock preached defensive responsibilities and on ice effort... you were either asleep or are purposely being difficult.

Either way, it’s tiring and a waste of time.

It's weird that we massively improved defensively the second he left.

Nylander is a better pro and better at putting in the work on the little things on the ice, you would certainly agree he learned no?

 

[kb]

Yawn

Not interested in a never ending debate with you. If you don’t think Babcock preached defensive responsibilities and on ice effort... you were either asleep or are purposely being difficult.

Either way, it’s tiring and a waste of time.

Now you understand how we all feel.

Babcock did nothing. Why did the Leafs D suddenly improve the very day Keefe was hired? Well, he could coach, for one reason. He had a plan, for another.

 

[Gabriel426]

I think Babs had an idea of how a team should play. He doesn’t care about personal stats. Still remember at one Olympics, someone asked about nobody in TC were scoring at a high rate or something…when they won Gold, Babs asked the same reporter who won Gold and who is the highest scorer in the tournament.. something like that.
I don’t think Babs is a not bad coach and a lot of what he wanted and tried could apply on the Leafs today. Like stretch passes, I still don’t understand why Leafs don’t use the stretch pass once a while as if they are afraid to use them.
We can’t saying depth scoring, Leafs need depth…that’s what Babs wanted too.
Anyhow. He is gone now and not like Keefe is struggling with the Leafs.

 

[Minar]

Seems like there are alot of scenes where Keefe praises the team that people are forgetting. Like when he told them they just put on a 3 game clinic. Seems like we are only remembering when he was really hard on them because maybe it surprised us but there were other moments as well.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Finally finished all 5 episodes. Some of my takeaways.

Vesey- what a brat! Shitty attitude and didn't seem very personable even when talking to his own family. Glad he's gone.

Matthews - complacent attitude. Needs more maturing if he wants to be a captain someday.

Marner - you can see that he really does care and was very affected by the whole playoff series. Hopefully he grows out of his playoff funk. Wish we saw a little bit more of him in the series.

Rielly- he was barely in it which is a big surprise considering he is always available to the media and always speaks well. Wish we saw more.

Nylander & Tavares - came as advertised.

Spezza - love this guy more and more all the time. Great veteran.

Bogosian- wish we had kept this guy. Seemed like a good guy and tough, stay at home D man. Maybe keep him as the 6D and promote Lilly to Holl's spot. That would've saved us a little over 1M that we could've spent up front. Maybe kept McCann. I understand why he left. That would be tough not seeing your kids all year because of Canada's travel restrictions.

Andersen - don't really care for his overall demeanor. He just doesn't seem like a personable guy and just comes off like he doesn't have that Warrior spirit.

Campbell- how can you not love everything about this guy! Seeing him after game 7 taking it so hard was tough.

Foligno - this is everything you want in a playoff warrior and a leader. Wish we could still have him on the team and healthy.

Thronton - fun and loveable guy but I really thought him agreeing with our young stars and their complacency really showed poor leadership and shows why he was stripped of captaincy in SJ and maybe a glimpse as to why he's never won a cup. Loved the exchange with Ehlers and the ref.

Dubas - don't think we really learned anything new about him. What you see is what you get. We knew he was a good person and cares for his guys. It was cool to see the behind the scenes conversations and i was glad to see the talk between him and Marner and that they have been talking to him about his playoff struggles. Would like to see him be more assertive at times though. The Foligno trade scene I understand why we overpaid and see his point about not losing out on your guy over a 4th but still, that was a big price to pay.

Keefe - obviously the star of the series. Im sure this series has changed a lot of people views of him and see the players as being the problem. I kinda knew he was demanding coach from watching the Marlies and seeing some of his post game interviews down there but this doc really showed how he constantly expects perfection and isn't afraid to call anyone on the team out. He is firm but fair and think he is a good fit for this team if our star players buy in and give it their all when the games get tough.


I wish we could have this kind of coverage all the time. As much as I love the coverage on the bench and locker room, I would love to see more of the trade talks and draft table discussions. Hopefully we'll we'll get more in the future and could be good revenue and bring more attention to the NHL.

 

[Knies iT]

Weird having a coach like Keefe actively discourage guys from fighting. In a heated game against WPG he tells Foligno not to fight Lowry and NF responds "why not?".

You'd think for a team that has guys who pretend they don't see hits from behind that you'd encourage more of that any chance you can.

Bogosian in pre-season for Tampa has twice as many fights already as he had the entire year in Toronto. Watching him play tonight, he looks like a totally different player. Aggression dialled up to ten.

 

[makbeer]

Weird having a coach like Keefe actively discourage guys from fighting. In a heated game against WPG he tells Foligno not to fight Lowry and NF responds "why not?".

You'd think for a team that has guys who pretend they don't see hits from behind that you'd encourage more of that any chance you can.

Bogosian in pre-season for Tampa has twice as many fights already as he had the entire year in Toronto. Watching him play tonight, he looks like a totally different player. Aggression dialled up to ten.

I wasn't a fan of that. Keefe has a bit of a wet blanket feel to me.

 

[Pookie]

I think Babs had an idea of how a team should play. He doesn’t care about personal stats. Still remember at one Olympics, someone asked about nobody in TC were scoring at a high rate or something…when they won Gold, Babs asked the same reporter who won Gold and who is the highest scorer in the tournament.. something like that.
I don’t think Babs is a not bad coach and a lot of what he wanted and tried could apply on the Leafs today. Like stretch passes, I still don’t understand why Leafs don’t use the stretch pass once a while as if they are afraid to use them.
We can’t saying depth scoring, Leafs need depth…that’s what Babs wanted too.
Anyhow. He is gone now and not like Keefe is struggling with the Leafs.

The reality is that the core were challenged by both coaches.

to say Babcock didn’t hammer them on the details, the winning habits on and off the ice is silly.

that’s what he was brought here to do.

heck, we had a player suspended by the team for off ice issues. A an exec went to the police about cocaine issues surrounding the team. Hello?

Even down to “facial hair” from Lou, this was an organizational push to change the culture of entitlement to one of professionalism and hard work.

anyone who misses that is purposely obtuse.

Said Brad Boyes in the early days “I’ve been impressed with how he’s putting together our team, how he’s put together systems, how he’s stayed on top of guys. The attention to detail is the biggest thing. The best coaches have the most attention to detail.”

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Weird having a coach like Keefe actively discourage guys from fighting. In a heated game against WPG he tells Foligno not to fight Lowry and NF responds "why not?".

You'd think for a team that has guys who pretend they don't see hits from behind that you'd encourage more of that any chance you can.

Bogosian in pre-season for Tampa has twice as many fights already as he had the entire year in Toronto. Watching him play tonight, he looks like a totally different player. Aggression dialled up to ten.

Wasn't it because we were winning that game? Why give the other team a momentum shift? Or possible injury.

 

[Sypher04]

Finally finished all 5 episodes. Some of my takeaways.

Vesey- what a brat! Shitty attitude and didn't seem very personable even when talking to his own family. Glad he's gone.

Matthews - complacent attitude. Needs more maturing if he wants to be a captain someday.

Marner - you can see that he really does care and was very affected by the whole playoff series. Hopefully he grows out of his playoff funk. Wish we saw a little bit more of him in the series.

Rielly- he was barely in it which is a big surprise considering he is always available to the media and always speaks well. Wish we saw more.

Nylander & Tavares - came as advertised.

Spezza - love this guy more and more all the time. Great veteran.

Bogosian- wish we had kept this guy. Seemed like a good guy and tough, stay at home D man. Maybe keep him as the 6D and promote Lilly to Holl's spot. That would've saved us a little over 1M that we could've spent up front. Maybe kept McCann. I understand why he left. That would be tough not seeing your kids all year because of Canada's travel restrictions.

Andersen - don't really care for his overall demeanor. He just doesn't seem like a personable guy and just comes off like he doesn't have that Warrior spirit.

Campbell- how can you not love everything about this guy! Seeing him after game 7 taking it so hard was tough.

Foligno - this is everything you want in a playoff warrior and a leader. Wish we could still have him on the team and healthy.

Thronton - fun and loveable guy but I really thought him agreeing with our young stars and their complacency really showed poor leadership and shows why he was stripped of captaincy in SJ and maybe a glimpse as to why he's never won a cup. Loved the exchange with Ehlers and the ref.

Dubas - don't think we really learned anything new about him. What you see is what you get. We knew he was a good person and cares for his guys. It was cool to see the behind the scenes conversations and i was glad to see the talk between him and Marner and that they have been talking to him about his playoff struggles. Would like to see him be more assertive at times though. The Foligno trade scene I understand why we overpaid and see his point about not losing out on your guy over a 4th but still, that was a big price to pay.

Keefe - obviously the star of the series. Im sure this series has changed a lot of people views of him and see the players as being the problem. I kinda knew he was demanding coach from watching the Marlies and seeing some of his post game interviews down there but this doc really showed how he constantly expects perfection and isn't afraid to call anyone on the team out. He is firm but fair and think he is a good fit for this team if our star players buy in and give it their all when the games get tough.


I wish we could have this kind of coverage all the time. As much as I love the coverage on the bench and locker room, I would love to see more of the trade talks and draft table discussions. Hopefully we'll we'll get more in the future and could be good revenue and bring more attention to the NHL.

agreed with most of what you posted here, but not seeing where you got the comments about Matthews being complacent from. I don’t really see how he showed any differently than Marner did. They clearly both care and we’re devastated. The shot at or towards the end of just Marner and Matthews sitting in their stalls at the end of it, when everyone else had already left, spoke volumes.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

The reality is that the core were challenged by both coaches.

to say Babcock didn’t hammer them on the details, the winning habits on and off the ice is silly.

that’s what he was brought here to do.

heck, we had a player suspended by the team for off ice issues. A an exec went to the police about cocaine issues surrounding the team. Hello?

Even down to “facial hair” from Lou, this was an organizational push to change the culture of entitlement to one of professionalism and hard work.

anyone who misses that is purposely obtuse.

Said Brad Boyes in the early days “I’ve been impressed with how he’s putting together our team, how he’s put together systems, how he’s stayed on top of guys. The attention to detail is the biggest thing. The best coaches have the most attention to detail.”

I agree that the players have mostly been the problem the whole time and that Babcock was right about a lot of things but Babcock made a lot of hair pulling stupid decisions here. Not to mention some of his f***** up tactics. Like the Spezza thing WTF was that?

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

agreed with most of what you posted here, but not seeing where you got the comments about Matthews being complacent from

Because of his comments to the media saying Keefe is overthinking things when they are winning. Completely disregarding Keefe's reasoning. That came off as immature to me. To me that is something a teenager would think. Didnt like that Thornton agreed with it either.

 

[Sypher04]

Because of his comments to the media saying Keefe is overthinking things when they are winning. Completely disregarding Keefe's reasoning. That came off as immature to me. To me that is something a teenager would think. Didnt like that Thornton agreed with it either.

okay… except Matthews never said that.

The only time he really talked to the media he was asked a point blank question if they played a particular game too safe and he responded honestly, that he thought they had. He said nothing whatsoever about the strategy or how Keefe wants them to play.

Keefe massively overreacted to a nothing comment