First look at the All or Nothing Amazon Prime show

[Menzinger]

Professional athletes have a very short career. The leafs core are now 6 year grizzled veterans. Take almost any star player, and their best years and most successful years are primarily low-mid 20's. Ovechkin situations are the vast exception, not rule. We should not be holding out hoping our core players are exceptions. We should want them to be rules.

No need to mention Ovie, Look no further than William Nylander, the oldest of the big three who showed he can now elevate his game in the post season. Media reports this preseason have said he's been trying to play more of a leadership role, and may even take on additional PK responsibility.

The idea that players just become stunted isn't fair.

 

[thinkblue]

No need to mention Ovie, Look no further than William Nylander, the oldest of the big three who showed he can now elevate his game in the post season. Media reports this preseason have said he's been trying to play more of a leadership role, and may even take on additional PK responsibility.

The idea that players just become stunted isn't fair.

Add to that almost all of the recent cup winners were largely driven by core players in the mid to late 20s. Leafs big 3 are not even there yet. It's fair to question whether this is the right mix of players / roster construction, but to suggest these guys can't get better is absurd.

 

[diceman934]

Now you understand how we all feel.

Babcock did nothing. Why did the Leafs D suddenly improve the very day Keefe was hired? Well, he could coach, for one reason. He had a plan, for another.

So Wrong. Our D improved when we traded or signed better D. Muzzin, Brodie and Boggy. No Marincin, Gardner etc.

 

[ponder]

Only 2 episodes in, but main thoughts so far:

• Like Keefe a lot, great reads on the strengths/weaknesses of the team, a lot of passion and focus on details, while still being conscious of how hard he can push each guy before it’s too hard. His focus, even early in the season when things were seemingly going great, on offence drying up against tight checking, and inability to score playoff style goals off rebounds, was dead on. Even if he wasn’t able to fix it, you can tell he was trying everything to do so
• The team seems way too quiet/passive/checked out when coaches are providing feedback, especially in group/team meeting settings - by far the biggest red flag for me. I think the leaders on the team need to be buying in more, set the tone of belief. Very different vibe than, say, Pens or Caps in that HBO 24/7 series from years back. I’ve worked in places where everyone is bought in and a tight team, and others where people are checked out and cynical, this team comes off a bit too much like the latter
• Nylander is legit JACKED now. f***ing huge, and has done it while staying as quick and explosive as ever, clearly working out the right way for hockey. He has improved a lot the last couple years, really shown up in then playoffs too, and I think a significant part of that is how strong he’s gotten. Hope Marner is hitting the gym with him - Marner is so damn skilled, great motor on the ice too, but he still gets pushed around and physically intimidated too much. If he could get jacked like Nylander he’d be unstoppable. He’s a top 10-15 winger in the league, which is damn good, but could be top 1-2

 

[Bluelines]

It seems the team may have a bit of a dilemma.

Either we have a coach that can identify issues but doesn't have the experience (or ability) to correct them, or there are players on the team that are unable or unwilling to make the changes that the coach is trying to implement.

Yet the solution seems to be keep changing the support players and hope that somehow fixes things.

I agree that changing the complimentary players wont make a hill of beans difference but oddly in last years playoffs Glay made that brain dead play that resulted in the OT goal against and the Bogo didn't block the shot but tipped it resulting in two OT losses. So maybe the complimentary bottom of the line up are the problem

 

[Stephen]

Did anyone notice Wendel’s scabbed up knuckles on the call with the Foligno’s? Is he still scrappin’?

 

[Aus34Matt]

Do people tend to f***ing take you more f***ing seriously when you drop the f***ing F-bomb at every second word of a f***ing sentence??

 

[ACC1224]

Do people tend to f***ing take you more f***ing seriously when you drop the f***ing F-bomb at every second word of a f***ing sentence??

No it just shows a limited vocabulary.

 

[zeke]

Pretty funny we've gone from critiquing the leadership as too soft and nerdy all the way to too mean and vulgar in just the last 2 weeks.

 

[67leafs]

Hey I’m ok with mean tweets lol
I watched it and loved it…..Keefe seems like he knows what’s going on.

 

[CanadasTeam]

You gotta love Jack!

 

[bbgobie]

Do people tend to f***ing take you more f***ing seriously when you drop the f***ing F-bomb at every second word of a f***ing sentence??

F'n eh

 

[wingman75]

Either way... or Tri-either way.... it’s extremely disappointing that we are trying the same thing with the same people and somehow expecting them to achieve something different.

It's a fair comment, but I feel that people can get better. Especially young people. As they learn about themselves, in certain situations... the best tend to make adjustments, minor as they might be... and they is why they are able to be great. This is the opportunity for that to happen. I mean, if they can't this time around there is truly no hope for this core. Also, I think enough of the roster has changed to say that it is not 100% exactly the same thing. We have different players with differnet capabilties that should affect how the team plays overall.

After watching All or Nothing, I have a new respect for Keefe. I felt he did more than enough, and put his players in positive situations (in general) to have success. The difference in that series win was probably centimeters and was not on the coach.
Two completly idiotic decisions did the team in ultimately... that being said, we should have won... we crumbled... especially in game 7. I was hoping to see some of the behind the scenes from management after that game... I am guessing is was a little too real and raw to put out there... though it is on 'tape' somewhere.

One thing that stood out to me was something Marner said... about needing to be the best player on the ice every night... that is bs. The team just needs him to be his best self every night, whatever that is. If 5 guys are better than you so be it. He clearly tries to do too much and has an issue with putting undue pressure on himself. Hope he can work through that, because he will be better if he can. Playing within yourself, in the moment is a real skill.

I felt bad for Foligno too, best intentions all around there. Interesting with him though, I feel if he had confidence in this group he would have stayed; the fact he walked speaks to him not believing in this core either (like many of you... and me some nights).

Looking ahead, I feel the changes to the roster have been positive. Losing Hyman sucks, but he doesn't fit with us at that salary... neither did Connor Brown, or Kapanen or Johnsson. Other guys have a chance to slide in a be just as effective imo; I also think we are stronger defensively as a team. Will be interesting to see how the goaltending tandem plays out.

Anyway, back to why I quoted that piece of your comment, these guys are still young... and learning... and now need to apply that. If they can't, then yea, they need to eff off and we need to try something different but I have grown to be okay with one more kick at the can with this core.

 

[Stephen]

Do people tend to f***ing take you more f***ing seriously when you drop the f***ing F-bomb at every second word of a f***ing sentence??

Funny enough, that's a word that often comes to mind when following the Leafs, so I think it's just vocabulary that's appropriate to the situation.

When Keefe was giving that speech you could see nervous Thornton fidgeting in the background. I guess he was more comic relief and good guy in the room more than vocal leadership in critical situations.

 

[Pookie]

It's a fair comment, but I feel that people can get better. Especially young people. As they learn about themselves, in certain situations... the best tend to make adjustments, minor as they might be... and they is why they are able to be great. This is the opportunity for that to happen. I mean, if they can't this time around there is truly no hope for this core. Also, I think enough of the roster has changed to say that it is not 100% exactly the same thing. We have different players with differnet capabilties that should affect how the team plays overall.

After watching All or Nothing, I have a new respect for Keefe. I felt he did more than enough, and put his players in positive situations (in general) to have success. The difference in that series win was probably centimeters and was not on the coach.
Two completly idiotic decisions did the team in ultimately... that being said, we should have won... we crumbled... especially in game 7. I was hoping to see some of the behind the scenes from management after that game... I am guessing is was a little too real and raw to put out there... though it is on 'tape' somewhere.

One thing that stood out to me was something Marner said... about needing to be the best player on the ice every night... that is bs. The team just needs him to be his best self every night, whatever that is. If 5 guys are better than you so be it. He clearly tries to do too much and has an issue with putting undue pressure on himself. Hope he can work through that, because he will be better if he can. Playing within yourself, in the moment is a real skill.

I felt bad for Foligno too, best intentions all around there. Interesting with him though, I feel if he had confidence in this group he would have stayed; the fact he walked speaks to him not believing in this core either (like many of you... and me some nights).

Looking ahead, I feel the changes to the roster have been positive. Losing Hyman sucks, but he doesn't fit with us at that salary... neither did Connor Brown, or Kapanen or Johnsson. Other guys have a chance to slide in a be just as effective imo; I also think we are stronger defensively as a team. Will be interesting to see how the goaltending tandem plays out.

Anyway, back to why I quoted that piece of your comment, these guys are still young... and learning... and now need to apply that. If they can't, then yea, they need to eff off and we need to try something different but I have grown to be okay with one more kick at the can with this core.

respect for a well thought out opinion

cheers

 

[supermann_98]

Because our entitled players flat out refused to buy into Babcock's strict defensive system. Hard to pad your stats that way. It was flat out open rebellion against his system.

Keefe came in and was more "flexible" with them, which got better results. And now, as we've seen from the docuseries, Keefe is battling with the fact that the team needs a stricter system to succeed in the playoffs, while knowing the team has a history of flat out open rebelling against such systems. That's why he had to go to Spezza and pretty much ask "Are they getting maddy-mads at me?".

With Babcock, the leafs lost in the playoffs as underdogs. With Keefe, the leafs lost in the playoffs against underdogs.

I would counter that they refused to play for a manipulative a-hole who played favourites and his game plan was to dump and chase and be a gud pro forechecking relentlessly to try and get the puck back ... instead of allowing them to play to their strengths which is puck possession and playing creative offensively.

Babcock's defensive system was a joke tbh

 

[Tairy Greene]

The show is pretty boring tbh. We already know how the season went and it lacks a compelling storyline or figure like a Michael Jordan. The McDavid rehab documentary was much more interesting

 

[Menzinger]

A behind the scenes tidbit from the recent Leafs Report podcast. Apparently the cameras in the teams offices and meeting rooms were robotic, so no camera crews present.

 

[zeke]

A behind the tidbit from the recent Leafs Report podcast. Apparently the cameras in the teams offices and meeting rooms were robotic, so no camera crews present.

Thats cool.

 

[Notsince67]

Do people tend to f***ing take you more f***ing seriously when you drop the f***ing F-bomb at every second word of a f***ing sentence??

Could have taken a lesson from torts and graduated to using f***er over f***ing. More poinient messaging.

 

[Notsince67]

I would counter that they refused to play for a manipulative a-hole who played favourites and his game plan was to dump and chase and be a gud pro forechecking relentlessly to try and get the puck back ... instead of allowing them to play to their strengths which is puck possession and playing creative offensively.

Babcock's defensive system was a joke tbh

Takes some genius to come up with..."retrieve puck and look for a stretch pass"

 

[Quares27]

Just finished it yesterday. I haven't seen what common opinions were because I didn't want to be spoiled (sounds weird since we know the ending but in terms of specific moments) but my main takeaways were probably:

- Keefe did kinda give me Babcock vibes, and it did seem like the players were getting annoyed at certain points, but basically everything he said about the team not being ready even when they were winning games was spot on, and evidently that big speech did get through to the players because the Leafs came out in game 6 OT and absolutely ran the Habs over (yet somehow still found a way to lose in typical Leafs fashion)

- I definitely liked Dubas in it, he seems like a good communicator, a quality guy and a smart GM. I don't think a whole lot of blame could go his way. He did basically everything he thought was possible to put the team in the best spot to win

- Felt bad watching Foligno, he was clearly very excited to be there and it's a shame he was crippled by his back so much. I do think he wanted to come back but the Leafs weren't gonna compete with nearly 4m/year nor should they

- Thornton was a clown. I can't believe someone so veteran was so immature. That scene with Ehlers was funny but that's about it. He seemed like he signed just to have fun with some young guys. I can see why his SJ teams always had issues with leadership and disappointment. Simmonds on the other hand seemed great. Good guy to be around but very competitive and serious and i'm glad they brought him back

- Vesey gave me such weird vibes the entire time. I can't even tell if he's a smug Harvard douche, or if he's just awkward and maybe felt kinda left out as a new guy but every scene with him was so weird. It did make me think about how being a good fit on a personal level could make you be a better player though because he never looked comfortable there at all

- Also Jack Campbell might be the most rootable player ever. What a guy

 

[Pookie]

No need to mention Ovie, Look no further than William Nylander, the oldest of the big three who showed he can now elevate his game in the post season. Media reports this preseason have said he's been trying to play more of a leadership role, and may even take on additional PK responsibility.

The idea that players just become stunted isn't fair.

Some don’t become stunted. Others do.

Unless you are clairvoyant, not sure if you are offering a conclusion or just some
degree of hope.

which is it?

 

[Pookie]

A behind the scenes tidbit from the recent Leafs Report podcast. Apparently the cameras in the teams offices and meeting rooms were robotic, so no camera crews present.

And this means what?

 

[Menzinger]

Some don’t become stunted. Others do.

Unless you are clairvoyant, not sure if you are offering a conclusion or just some
degree of hope.

which is it?

Several people seem to be of the position that the core can't change how they approach the game/playoffs. I'm offering an alternative opinion on the matter. Now if you don't see the relevancy of Nylanders evolution to that issue so be it...

And this means what?

That there was no film crew present during those scenes. Doesn't mean people weren't watching what they were saying, but likely created an atmosphere of discussion where those present may be more inclined to just speak their mind