Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

[HamiltonNHL]

They have a grand total of 6 draft picks in the next 2 years. On the other hand Montreal has 18.

Another futility stat.

 

[Mess]

Now compare dubas' failures to lou's success with the islanders.

Its amazing how many around here hate lou but adore duabs.

The results are right there. You only make yourself look foolish by denying the obvious.

While some Leaf fans don't like to hear about Lou Lam success of inheriting a non playoff NYI and consistently taking them to the 2nd round (where Leafs haven't been in 17 years), you have to think Leafs ownership is well aware their former GM is now outproducing their current GM.

They have to be wondering what their contract situations of their core players would look like, and where their organization would be if they gave Lou these last 3 years instead of Dubas. Very few organizations and successful businesses change management when your team is setting new franchise records.

If you're sitting on the Leafs board of directors, how could that not cross your mind and when your stock and shareholders and investors are questioning you as WHY did you go from proven experienced successful veteran GM and coach and entrust this franchise to youth and inexperience?

Particularly a tough question to answer when exec salaries are not Cap compliant issues nor concerns and a fortune 500 company like Bell/Rogers are and should & could afford the very best available and Shanny decided this is where he wanted to save on cost and experience.

We wouldn't be having this postmortem discussion as to who in management Shanny, Dubas or Keefe are safe and only because the results of the team are trending in wrong direction and the seasons ending in disappointment and embarrassment.

Now personally I believe this team is going to be given 1 more years grace period from ownership to get their acts in gear, but anything less than concrete playoff results next year of at least a round or two will result in wholesale changes top to bottom. IMO

 

[AvroArrow]

Give them 1 more year. Lets give them the benefit of the doubt 1 last team. Injuries to JT/Muzzin/Foligno. We still should have overcame those losses, but let's give them another shot. Dubas/Keefe have had 1.5 years here together. 1 more year to see some sort of progress and if there's nothing, sack them both.

 

[Trapper]

Give them 1 more year. Lets give them the benefit of the doubt 1 last team. Injuries to JT/Muzzin/Foligno. We still should have overcame those losses, but let's give them another shot. Dubas/Keefe have had 1.5 years here together. 1 more year to see some sort of progress and if there's nothing, sack them both.

I’d be fine with that if I knew any repercussions or accountability of core was coming along with that.

Because it seems like we just did that last year when the GM bet his job on the core and the “I told you so” became yet another chance to prove it.

But hey, let’s go.

 

[AvroArrow]

Management, coaching, depth, defence, and goaltending did their job.

Mitch and Matthews did not do what their peers do.

This. Rielly/Brodie/Muzzin/Holl ALL showed up. Campbell was astounding. Nylander/Kerfoot/Gally were all great. Spezza was especially good but the entire bottom 6 did their job (except grandpa). All the role pieces, complementary pieces did their job. The 2 guys who didn't show up, the 22m dollar guys. The support players were all there, the guys who needed to carry the top line didn't. We didn't lose this series because of depth, because of D and damn sure not because of Campbell. We lost because 22M decided not to show up.

Another question is how much of that is Keefe ? I think he's somewhat to blame. His line matching or lack of line matching was a huge issue. I remember the 2013 series, Carlyle was a genius with line matching there and one of the biggest reasons that series went 7. He made sure Kessel and co had the best chance to score and play successful hockey. Even on the road he was playing chess with our lines. Keefe said f*** it, and rolled whoever whenever, there was no planning. Should the top line still have produced better ? Of course, but Keefe has to take some blame. And then the PP struggles.

 

[sbpointer]

Turn 3 salaries into 2.
Subtract Shanahan, Dubas and Keefe
Add M. Hunter and D. Hunter

 

[The Legend]

• No cap left for quality depth
• 50% of the cap allocated to 4 players (all forwards)
• No NHL experience (coach/gm)
• Fire Shanahan, Dubas
• Get someone new with solid NHL experience (GM/Coach) tandem that does not bend to players' demands based on how much players make

• Not dubas' fault - players should take responsibility
• Keefe is good he did not bend to players' demands
• Dubas is a solid GM; we should not be looking for another GM/Coach tandem
• There is no cap issues; Dubas/Pridham are cap masters
• Cap allocation is great - don't have to worry about quality depth

FIRE Shanahan/Dubas/Keefe? Yes/No

Should probably also mention the players they've brought in...Muzzin, Brodie, Campbell, Kerfoot.

Also the players they've brought in since they started valuing intangible garbage...Simmonds, Thornton, Foligno, etc.

 

[The Legend]

Turn 3 salaries into 2.
Subtract Shanahan, Dubas and Keefe
Add M. Hunter and D. Hunter

Are you sure we can get Mark Hunter?

 

[The Legend]

Shanahan has turned into a soy boy as grows older. He seems smitten (with a boy crush) for the young Dubas. He chose that dummy over Lou, a hall of famer. Shanahan put his trust in a guy who's vision was completely opposite to the way he won playoff rounds and Stanley cups as a player. He was one tough SOB with high skill.

Dubas continues to draft smallish skill players who can be successful during the regular season but are too soft for playoff hockey. His contract negotiations are the joke of the league. I said 3 seasons ago he misread the timeline of the rebuild while he continues to lose draft capitol year by year to try and make up for his horrible managerial decisions.

Both of these guys don't have the smarts to lead the organization out of this self induced MESS.

what do you think of the Marleau trade that Dubas made with Carolina or the Zaitsev trade with Ottawa?

 

[sbpointer]

Are you sure we can get Mark Hunter?

No I'm not sure he'd want to do it to be honest. What I do know is they have the Knights set up for immediate succession. Mark and Dale could leave tomorrow and Rob Simpson slides in as GM and Dylan Hunter as Head Coach and the machine keeps ticking along.

 

[The Legend]

No I'm not sure he'd want to do it to be honest. What I do know is they have the Knights set up for immediate succession. Mark and Dale could leave tomorrow and Rob Simpson slides in as GM and Dylan Hunter as Head Coach and the machine keeps ticking along.

I was more wondering if he'd be available given how many other NHL jobs he's been offered

 

[Green Snow Storm]

Management, coaching, depth, defence, and goaltending did their job.

Mitch and Matthews did not do what their peers do.

Agreed, except I think coaching left something to be desired on some fronts as well.

 

[ottomaddox]

@zeke
@Dekes For Days

Now compare dubas' failures to lou's success with the islanders.

Its amazing how many around here hate lou but adore duabs.

The results are right there. You only make yourself look foolish by denying the obvious.

Lol

Good new nickname:

Duabs

Love it. Typos create fun sometimes.

 

[ECYCLE]

Turn 3 salaries into 2.
Subtract Shanahan, Dubas and Keefe
Add M. Hunter and D. Hunter

I thought this was supposed to improve the team, your third step seems to be pointing towards the wrong direction.

 

[Myopic]

I was more wondering if he'd be available given how many other NHL jobs he's been offered

How do you know he hasn't?
He owns a junior team, Ottawa, and may want to stick around home. He's close to 60 years old.

 

[TMLegend]

They won't be fired but at minimum Dubas should be. If you look at the ending of this season and the ending of last season vs CBJ that parallels are pretty remarkable. Can't score when it counts, flat and no urgency in elimination games, etc. You can't even say it was the goaltending either as both Freddy and Campbell gave them more than capable goaltending to win each round. This mess is on Dubas, and the guys he chose to give exorbitant contracts to before they had proven anything in the NHL.

 

[ToneDog]

While some Leaf fans don't like to hear about Lou Lam success of inheriting a non playoff NYI and consistently taking them to the 2nd round (where Leafs haven't been in 17 years), you have to think Leafs ownership is well aware their former GM is now outproducing their current GM.

They have to be wondering what their contract situations of their core players would look like, and where their organization would be if they gave Lou these last 3 years instead of Dubas. Very few organizations and successful businesses change management when your team is setting new franchise records.

If you're sitting on the Leafs board of directors, how could that not cross your mind and when your stock and shareholders and investors are questioning you as WHY did you go from proven experienced successful veteran GM and coach and entrust this franchise to youth and inexperience?

Particularly a tough question to answer when exec salaries are not Cap compliant issues nor concerns and a fortune 500 company like Bell/Rogers are and should & could afford the very best available and Shanny decided this is where he wanted to save on cost and experience.

We wouldn't be having this postmortem discussion as to who in management Shanny, Dubas or Keefe are safe and only because the results of the team are trending in wrong direction and the seasons ending in disappointment and embarrassment.

Now personally I believe this team is going to be given 1 more years grace period from ownership to get their acts in gear, but anything less than concrete playoff results next year of at least a round or two will result in wholesale changes top to bottom. IMO

According to some posters on this board, Lou has nothing to do with the Isles success. Their success to all due to Barry Trotz who Lou did not even hire. Dubas instead hires a rookie coach who is obviously not Barry Trotz.

 

[sbpointer]

I thought this was supposed to improve the team, your third step seems to be pointing towards the wrong direction.

The ingredient this team has been missing since 1967 is knowing how to win. I get the Memorial Cup is not the Stanley Cup but there are a lot more teams after it and the Hunters have won it twice and been there 6 times ( 5 that were't as host ). I don't see how that makes the team worse then a bunch of hockey ops staff that haven't done anything.
Personally I'd rather they just stay around the Knights but they might be the answer for the leafs.

 

[ECYCLE]

The ingredient this team has been missing since 1967 is knowing how to win. I get the Memorial Cup is not the Stanley Cup but there are a lot more teams after it and the Hunters have won it twice and been there 6 times ( 5 that were't as host ). I don't see how that makes the team worse then a bunch of hockey ops staff that haven't done anything.
Personally I'd rather they just stay around the Knights but they might be the answer for the leafs.

Fair enough.

If there's anything we can look to for more relevant information, it's Hunter's drafting track record (discounting Matthews, that's a total gimme) which was abysmal. Recent relevations re: Marner aside, Hunter's best pick was Dermott? And I think Dubas orchestrated that trade.

Edit: I went to check to make sure. What an absolute disaster.

 

[rocketman588]

Who is Dubas best pick? 7th defenseman Rasmus Sundin?

The goalie from team Russia that doesn't know how to keep hold of his sick?

 

[ECYCLE]

Who is Dubas best pick? 7th defenseman Rasmus Sundin?

The goalie from team Russia that doesn't know how to keep hold of his sick?

Already better then Dermott. But you're deflecting.

 

[rocketman588]

Already better then Dermott. But you're deflecting.

How is that deflecting lol
Everyone says "his drafts are great" he has one NHL player on the roster from his drafts and no late round value.


He's also tanked all the high round value for cap dumps.

Mark Hunter may not have drafted "well" but he drafted on par with Dubas and didn't completely get robbed blind in negotiations/ screw up the cap

This team is ALL on him. His coach ( who coached exactly to his level this series an above average ohl guy). His core, his cap

He's getting another year to rob the franchise of every asset to appease his underperforming stars I guess

 

[ECYCLE]

How is that deflecting lol
Everyone says "his drafts are great" he has one NHL player on the roster from his drafts and no late round value.


He's also tanked all the high round value for cap dumps.

Mark Hunter may not have drafted "well" but he drafted on par with Dubas and didn't completely get robbed blind in negotiations/ screw up the cap

I was only criticizing Hunter, I never defended Dubas. Not sure why you are saying what you're saying to me.

Deflecting lol because you changed the discussion to Dubas whom I wasn't even talking about.

 

[rumman]

I’d be fine with that if I knew any repercussions or accountability of core was coming along with that.

Because it seems like we just did that last year when the GM bet his job on the core and the “I told you so” became yet another chance to prove it.

But hey, let’s go.

Lots has been said about how Dubas coddles the players, but what about Shanahan’s coddling of Dubas? I find it sickening, paging Larry Tannenbaum.........

 

[tokyoite]

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