Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

[Senovision]

Both will be gone next year if the Leafs choke again in 2022.

 

[mikeyz]

Originally I voted no. But, after this press conference, I changed it.

Both Shanny and Dubas completely contradicted themselves the entire time and they had a deer in the headlights kind of look to them, as if they have absolutely no idea how to fix this and that their time maybe running out.

 

[Gabriel426]

Originally I voted no. But, after this press conference, I changed it.

Both Shanny and Dubas completely contradicted themselves the entire time and they had a deer in the headlights kind of look to them, as if they have absolutely no idea how to fix this and that their time maybe running out.

They are not in a good situation.
Pretty sure they know Marner can’t perform in the playoffs and AM is one playoff series away from joining Marner.
They also know that their PP sucks and Keefe might be a good coach but he is not the right coach for this group.
If you are them, what can and will you do.

Hire a new coach might fix a lot of issues like the PP but if Marner and AM go MIA again in the playoffs, fire the coach again?

Trading Marner. I doubt the team with someone similar to Marner is willing make a 1 for 1 trade. Marner for a package(picks and prospects)is a huge risk bc you know Marner will do well in the regular season and these picks and prospects might be two years or more away.
Trade Marner for lesser players with picks is also a risk bc if the Leafs can’t pass the first round, it is useless and next year will be a lot tougher with Panthers, TB and Bruins in the division.
Trade Marner for a proven winner and leader like Kopitar. Might look good but at the end it is the success of playoffs will be key to the team.
I don’t fancy Shanny and Dubas position but they deserve it bc they were the ones who dug this hole themselves.

 

[Menzinger]

Fair enough.

If there's anything we can look to for more relevant information, it's Hunter's drafting track record (discounting Matthews, that's a total gimme) which was abysmal. Recent relevations re: Marner aside, Hunter's best pick was Dermott? And I think Dubas orchestrated that trade.

Edit: I went to check to make sure. What an absolute disaster.

Yep. One of the biggest hurdles to the Leafs push from rebuild into playoff competitiveness is the dismal drafting record in 2015-2017 period. Other than the top 5 selections of Marner and Matthews the only other prospect the Leafs have to show for it is Dermot. Gundstrom is a 4th liner on the King's but nothing to be interested in.

The Leafs also had 5 second round picks in that 3 year period too

 

[CincoHolio]

If it's true to what was said today that all of the same core is coming back then I'm out. Been a stout Dubas supporter but he's sealing his fate if he goes down that path. I say give them the boot.

 

[Leafsfan74]

I think many Leaf fans would be turned off if the same core starts game one.

It sounds as if by design or necessity (tough to move big contracts) they are sticking with the core.

Dubas is going to have to.shine like never before in the offseason. They need power forward types, and Gamers. I mean guys who hate to lose and who hate their opponent. This is what the Habs had

Only two Leafs all year expressed a hate for losing, Muzzin and Simmonds.

 

[Stephen]

I’m less confident in both Dubas and Shanahan after the press conference today. They seem to lack the ability to diagnose the issues or come up with a Plan B mid stream. They obviously have to project stability but their unwillingness to move on from the narrative or the Big 4 is either going to pay off or it will like the inability of their coach and players to adapt to adverse situations.

 

[centipede2233]

Originally I voted no. But, after this press conference, I changed it.

Both Shanny and Dubas completely contradicted themselves the entire time and they had a deer in the headlights kind of look to them, as if they have absolutely no idea how to fix this and that their time maybe running out.

Completely agree +1000000%

 

[PromisedLand]

I’m less confident in both Dubas and Shanahan after the press conference today. They seem to lack the ability to diagnose the issues or come up with a Plan B mid stream. They obviously have to project stability but their unwillingness to move on from the narrative or the Big 4 is either going to pay off or it will like the inability of their coach and players to adapt to adverse situations.

Shanaplan went into gutter long time ago

Article from 2018
Shanahan says Leafs expect their young stars to take less money to stay together | National Post

Dubas went out and completely did the opposite. If what Shanahan had said had come to pass Leafs would be in a lot better position cap wise and probably are still playing in the 2nd round because we would have had better quality depth instad of Mikheyev-Engvall-Thornton-Simmonds etc...

Also, losing Muzzin would also not have been an issue against CBJ or against monteal this season. heck we probably win a series against Boston too.

No way Leafs have any playoff success with 50% of the cap allocated to just 4 players. Dubas effed up; Shanahan didn't stop Dubas from screwing the Leafs.

The day Lou walked out the door the downfall of the Leafs had begun. Dubas and co. are only going to F up the Leafs even more.


6 picks in hand for the next 2 drafts

13 million in cap space to sign 8 players

Divisions re-aligning to the old ones soon I am sure. Good luck competing with Tampa, Boston, Florida and then competing for wildcard spots with the metropolitan division teams

 

[Cleetus]

wow the poll is pretty close....

 

[Cleetus]

I’m less confident in both Dubas and Shanahan after the press conference today. They seem to lack the ability to diagnose the issues or come up with a Plan B mid stream. They obviously have to project stability but their unwillingness to move on from the narrative or the Big 4 is either going to pay off or it will like the inability of their coach and players to adapt to adverse situations.

reminds me when someone is working at a problem, and cant figure it out, stares at the same problem for days or months, and his buddy comes over with a fresh set of eyes, looks at it, and solves it in minutes, maybe they need a fresh set of eyes?

 

[Gallagbi]

I’m less confident in both Dubas and Shanahan after the press conference today. They seem to lack the ability to diagnose the issues or come up with a Plan B mid stream. They obviously have to project stability but their unwillingness to move on from the narrative or the Big 4 is either going to pay off or it will like the inability of their coach and players to adapt to adverse situations.

I'd be pretty rattled if they rolled our plan B at the post season press conference less than 48 hours after the loss.

 

[IPS]

Imagine choking a 3-1 series lead to a team that shouldn't have even been in the playoffs and still thinking the GM needs another kick at the can despite losing in the 1st round the last 2 previous years as well.

Dubas needs to be fired - this is a no-brainer, full stop. You don't solve a country club atmosphere but keeping the guy who created and sustains it.

 

[Mess]

Divisions re-aligning to the old ones soon I am sure. Good luck competing with Tampa, Boston, Florida and then competing for wildcard spots with the metropolitan division teams

This has already been confirmed ..

Bettman: NHL expects to return to traditional divisions, schedule for 2021-22

The NHL is planning on returning to its traditional schedule and divisional alignment ― with the expansion Seattle Kraken joining the Pacific and Arizona moving to the Central ― for the 2021-22 season, commissioner Gary Bettman and deputy commissioner Bill Daly confirmed Thursday.

“We did what we had to do this year if we wanted to play,” Bettman said during a media availability. “We understood the Canadian and U.S. border issue and created the North Division.

Bettman: NHL expects to return to traditional divisions, schedule for 2021-22

The honeymoon is over and no more weak CDN div. It gets a lot tougher for this management team with the return to the Atlantic Div.

 

[rumman]

wow the poll is pretty close....

That might be because many from team Dubas have been noticeably absent since the Leafs latest choke job.......

 

[rumman]

I'd be pretty rattled if they rolled our plan B at the post season press conference less than 48 hours after the loss.

Of course not, but I don’t see the entitled players being happy to be told “boys, your all safe, we love ya” and then one of them is traded. I think all we wanted was a honest assessment of the team’s choke job.

 

[Leaf4Life]

wow the poll is pretty close....

My vote made it exactly 50/50 lol

 

[Racer88]

Dubas should be fired as soon as possible and if Shanny won’t do it then fire him as well

 

[ShaneFalco]

If they are a stay on course plan because eventually the core will care enough to put in the effort to win. Fire them all

 

[The Legend]

How do you know he hasn't?
He owns a junior team, Ottawa, and may want to stick around home. He's close to 60 years old.

He's supposed to be a draft guru. How'd his drafting do for us?

 

[The Legend]

Lots has been said about how Dubas coddles the players, but what about Shanahan’s coddling of Dubas? I find it sickening, paging Larry Tannenbaum.........

What exactly do you want Shanahan to do

 

[phillipmike]

It’s sad when the Leafs losses are making international news. That’s how sad this franchise is.

 

[The Legend]

According to some posters on this board, Lou has nothing to do with the Isles success. Their success to all due to Barry Trotz who Lou did not even hire. Dubas instead hires a rookie coach who is obviously not Barry Trotz.

Ok, let's play a game. Here are the bad moves Lou has made during his tenure on the Island and in Toronto:

• F Carter Verhaeghe, F Taylor Beck, D Tom Nilsson, D Matt Finn, and G Christopher Gibson to the New York Islanders for F Michael Grabner.
  
• Nikita Zaitsev, for seven years at an AAV of $4.5M
  
• Patrick Marleau for three years at $6.25M AAV
  
• F Kerby Rychel, D Rinat Valiev, and a 2018 2nd-round pick to the Montreal Canadiens for F Tomas Plekanec and F Kyle Baun
  
• D Devon Toews for 2 2nd rounders
• F Leo Komarov $12m for 4 years $3m AAV
• G Semyon Varlamov $20m for 4 years $5m AAV
• D Thomas Hickey at $10m for 4 years $2.5m AAV
• And maybe toss in Pageau for 6 years at 30m AAV $5m too

And I'm sure there's more. How many good?

This isn't some shrewd negotiator.

 

[ToneDog]

Ok, let's play a game. Here are the bad moves Lou has made during his tenure on the Island and in Toronto:

• F Carter Verhaeghe, F Taylor Beck, D Tom Nilsson, D Matt Finn, and G Christopher Gibson to the New York Islanders for F Michael Grabner.
  
• Nikita Zaitsev, for seven years at an AAV of $4.5M
  
• Patrick Marleau for three years at $6.25M AAV
  
• F Kerby Rychel, D Rinat Valiev, and a 2018 2nd-round pick to the Montreal Canadiens for F Tomas Plekanec and F Kyle Baun
  
• D Devon Toews for 2 2nd rounders
• F Leo Komarov $12m for 4 years $3m AAV
• G Semyon Varlamov $20m for 4 years $5m AAV
• D Thomas Hickey at $10m for 4 years $2.5m AAV
• And maybe toss in Pageau for 6 years at 30m AAV $5m too

And I'm sure there's more. How many good?

This isn't some shrewd negotiator.

Bottom line Lou's Isles are playing while we are golfing ... again. He has to be doing something right. Yet some Leaf fans continue to rip him in order to defend Dubas.

Dubas' list of mistakes took a hit with 4 TDL trades that went for naught because he over estimated his team. Enjoy cause I am pretty sure Isles fans are enjoying being in the 2nd round 3 straight years under Lou.

 

[keonsbitterness]

It’s said when the Leafs losses are making international news. That’s how sad this franchise is.

The Dallas Cowboys of the NHL? That really hurts.