Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

[Gabriel426]

They don't need half the league to want him. They need enough for a market and there would be that.

They only need ONE owner or GM who want to make a splash. Kind of like the owner on Draft Day, I want to make a splash…..trade for the No.1 pick…..

Maybe Kraken owner is like that esp since they got the 2nd overall pick.

 

[Dreakmur]

They only need ONE owner or GM who want to make a splash. Kind of like the owner on Draft Day, I want to make a splash…..trade for the No.1 pick…..

Maybe Kraken owner is like that esp since they got the 2nd overall pick.

Seattle doesn’t even have any players to trade back. How many draft picks would Dubas want back? He gave up 4 firsts when he bought into the offer sheet bluff a few years ago.

 

[Gabriel426]

Seattle doesn’t even have any players to trade back. How many draft picks would Dubas want back? He gave up 4 firsts when he bought into the offer sheet bluff a few years ago.

Maybe there will be good players on the expansion draft for trade.

 

[rumman]

What exactly do you want Shanahan to do

Nothing, it’s beyond that, it’s ownership’s call to fix it now.....

 

[Blowfish]

They both need to go. Boy wonder has completely handcuffed this team, continues to trade draft picks by overrating this team. He is in over his head, and Shanahan is clueless. They had a good thing going with Lou, brought in Dubas (mistake), who in turn brought in a terrible inexperienced coach. Clown show

this

 

[horner]

The one change I would make is coaching.
Keefe was running scared with his decisions, they never changed the way they played.ysically in the playoffs.
Dubas you can't just go with analytics.
You need a team that is adaptable.

For God sacks get more involved oh

 

[ottomaddox]

what do you think of the Marleau trade that Dubas made with Carolina or the Zaitsev trade with Ottawa?

Not much.

 

[17 Clark]

Not much.

Really sucks give it up Conor Brown

 

[Trapper]

After the press conference they both need to go.

The solution is we are going to keep the exact same thing until we get different results. That’s what you are selling me?

Last year it was compete excuse.
This year it’s killer instinct.

Sorry Shanny ol boy, killer instinct is bred and your core as a whole lacks it.
If you want some you have to change the core.
A player like Kovalev is a great player but he is never going to have killer instinct. He’s great paired with a Messier who has it.

None of the 4 forwards have it I’m afraid.
So the results will be the same. Oh sure they might win a round in 7-8-9 tries but 4 of them? Before they are all UFA and JT is 34/35. No.

 

[All Mod Cons]

LeBrun: What rival NHL executives are saying about how to fix the Maple Leafs - The Athletic

Team executive No. 4: Step 1: Complete a brutally honest philosophical self assessment.

If you speak to senior people they will quietly tell you they have concerns about the Leafs’ philosophy of: Focusing only on high octane offense with the belief that if you outscore everyone you will win. It seems they would rather beat you 6-5 than 2-1 and we all know that’s not how you succeed in the playoffs. And, reduce their myopic obsession with analytics as being the defacto decision maker. Analytics are important but should only be one of several criteria evaluated in every decision. Both publicly and privately people know that analytics has a disproportionate influence and makes all the player personnel decisions.

Step 2: A complete re-think of their team-building strategy. Their approach has been to collect the highest profile, high-octane offensive players possible and assemble them at the top of the roster. This is both disruptive from a team chemistry perspective and a salary cap management perspective.
From there, they seek out players who they can wedge into their limited cap space to fill out the roster. This results in is a top-heavy lineup with little to no balance from a cap space perspective, a team make up perspective and a competitive perspective. They seem to view the non core players as completely interchangeable parts and we all know that isn’t reality when building a team capable of going deep in the playoffs and winning a Stanley Cup.

Step 3: They need to redistribute some of their cap space differently throughout their lineup. This will provide greater levels of roster stability, overall depth and a much better, balanced team built for playoff competitiveness.

Step 4: Assuming they reduce their dependency on analytics, they need to stop trading draft picks. Their best players were drafted by the Leafs (albeit they were all high picks) and in order to provide a long term, competitive team, they need to ensure they have a steady flow of young players into the organization.

It will take courage to do this because it flies in the face of much of what they have publicly proclaimed they believe in. However, their beliefs have not rendered the desired results and true leadership will have the balls to admit as much and alter their approach. You know the old saying “No guts, no glory.”

Thank you for this. Very much appreciated.

I agree 100%. It's mind blowing, and very worrisome that someone would build a team in the manner Dubas has. All the way from an insane salary cap structure, to the disregard of draft picks, to the assumption that any bottom 6/bottom 2 pairing guys will do.

It's left us in no man's land in terms of trade options. You have guy's earning minimum wage who won't receive anything in a trade and then you have guy's making all the money that you never see moved in the NHL because those trades seem hard.

There's about 5 guys on the roster making middle money that you could trade, but they're the contracts we need to keep.

I honestly can't (probably can) believe that this is what we're left with after our GM inherited such an enviable base to built this team.

I don't see how it can be undone either, yet the GM seems to still have quite a lot of support amongst the fanbase.

 

[ottomaddox]

After the press conference they both need to go.

The solution is we are going to keep the exact same thing until we get different results. That’s what you are selling me?

Last year it was compete excuse.
This year it’s killer instinct.

Sorry Shanny ol boy, killer instinct is bred and your core as a whole lacks it.
If you want some you have to change the core.
A player like Kovalev is a great player but he is never going to have killer instinct. He’s great paired with a Messier who has it.

None of the 4 forwards have it I’m afraid.
So the results will be the same. Oh sure they might win a round in 7-8-9 tries but 4 of them? Before they are all UFA and JT is 34/35. No.

If they don't even do something easy like fire the head coach I'll be really freaking angry.

It's not so easy to move players, but to think that they also need to hang on to Keefe until the bitter end? They will never find a management job again.

 

[ShaneFalco]

After the press conference they both need to go.

The solution is we are going to keep the exact same thing until we get different results. That’s what you are selling me?

Last year it was compete excuse.
This year it’s killer instinct.

Sorry Shanny ol boy, killer instinct is bred and your core as a whole lacks it.
If you want some you have to change the core.
A player like Kovalev is a great player but he is never going to have killer instinct. He’s great paired with a Messier who has it.

None of the 4 forwards have it I’m afraid.
So the results will be the same. Oh sure they might win a round in 7-8-9 tries but 4 of them? Before they are all UFA and JT is 34/35. No.

Yeah I agree. They're going to stick with guys who time after time show that they can't compete in the big games. Killer instinct? Shit their instinct is to let the opposition mop the floor with them without a fight

 

[centipede2233]

Once shanahan and dubas are fired at some point in the future, it’s unlikely they get the same positions anywhere else. They have shown there ineptitude and people in the industry have taken notice and are likely chuckling behind closed doors.

 

[justashadowof]

Once shanahan and dubas are fired at some point in the future, it’s unlikely they get the same positions anywhere else. They have shown there ineptitude and people in the industry have taken notice and are likely chuckling behind closed doors.

I think this especially applies to Shanahan. Shanahan has run this team too permissively once he handed the reins to Dubas. Dubas hasn't done a good job although he has been (reluctantly) reacting to his past folly. Dubas could eventually be good at being an NHL GM. In the meantime we're all paying the price of Dubas' arrogance over his insistence that there's "proper way to win" (I can't recall the exact wording of the quote). Turns out Dubas never really believed that sh** 'cos it's now turned the dressing room into a revolving door of annual mercenary hires making chump change supporting the entitled star performers.

 

[centipede2233]

I think this especially applies to Shanahan. Shanahan has run this team too permissively once he handed the reins to Dubas. Dubas hasn't done a good job although he has been (reluctantly) reacting to his past folly. Dubas could eventually be good at being an NHL GM. In the meantime we're all paying the price of Dubas' arrogance over his insistence that there's "proper way to win" (I can't recall the exact wording of the quote). Turns out Dubas never really believed that sh** 'cos it's now turned the dressing room into a revolving door of annual mercenary hires making chump change supporting the entitled star performers.

Yup, well said.

 

[sparxx87]

Once shanahan and dubas are fired at some point in the future, it’s unlikely they get the same positions anywhere else. They have shown there ineptitude and people in the industry have taken notice and are likely chuckling behind closed doors.

The day Dubas was hired considering the state of the franchise and the decisions on contracts and finishing construction I said it would be the worst hire in the history of the franchise.

3 years later it’s oddly satisfying to see so many people finally realize what I’ve been trying to say all along. Players like Matthews are so incredibly rare and they’re now potentially 3 years away from losing him with still absolutely nothing but a mess to show for it.

5 wasted years and counting. Tick tock.

 

[ToneDog]

The day Dubas was hired considering the state of the franchise and the decisions on contracts and finishing construction I said it would be the worst hire in the history of the franchise.

3 years later it’s oddly satisfying to see so many people finally realize what I’ve been trying to say all along. Players like Matthews are so incredibly rare and they’re now potentially 3 years away from losing him with still absolutely nothing but a mess to show for it.

That day I said Shanny was putting his balls on the line. That day was the turning point for Shanny as Leaf Pres. IMO.

 

[centipede2233]

The day Dubas was hired considering the state of the franchise and the decisions on contracts and finishing construction I said it would be the worst hire in the history of the franchise.

3 years later it’s oddly satisfying to see so many people finally realize what I’ve been trying to say all along. Players like Matthews are so incredibly rare and they’re now potentially 3 years away from losing him with still absolutely nothing but a mess to show for it.

5 wasted years and counting. Tick tock.

I agree also. I didn’t need this years collapse to tell me the job dubas as done. I knew once the matthews and marner contracts were inked, this team was doomed, and that was before a COVID flat cap came along lol.

sometimes you just have to let things play out for others to catch on and change there opinion on dubas.
And you touched on another point, matthews walks in 3 years, at least mcdavid and drasaitl have more tenure. For some reason I think things will get worse before they get better.

 

[The Legend]

Bottom line Lou's Isles are playing while we are golfing ... again. He has to be doing something right. Yet some Leaf fans continue to rip him in order to defend Dubas.

Dubas' list of mistakes took a hit with 4 TDL trades that went for naught because he over estimated his team. Enjoy cause I am pretty sure Isles fans are enjoying being in the 2nd round 3 straight years under Lou.

Bottom line Lou has made awful move after awful move and he's been bailed out by studs and a great coach.

Re: Dubas, I hated the deadline moves. Rather than stick to his guns - get great hockey players - he listened to fans/crusty old GMs who said they needed grit/leadership/magic. The only solace is that Lou would have dealt Nylander for like Gudbranson, so at least we took the keys away before that happened.

 

[The Legend]

Not much.

Great. They were both to fix messes made by Lou.

 

[TMLisSRYinGerman]

Yes, fire them - but it won't change anything in the end. The top players on this teams are mentally weak, don't know how this could be changed for the better.

 

[Bomber0104]

Bottom line Lou has made awful move after awful move and he's been bailed out by studs and a great coach.

Re: Dubas, I hated the deadline moves. Rather than stick to his guns - get great hockey players - he listened to fans/crusty old GMs who said they needed grit/leadership/magic. The only solace is that Lou would have dealt Nylander for like Gudbranson, so at least we took the keys away before that happened.

Oh dear there's actually people still posting their sour grapes about Lou being way more successful than Dubas (both on the Leafs and with the Islanders)..

Yikes.

 

[ToneDog]

Bottom line Lou has made awful move after awful move and he's been bailed out by studs and a great coach.

Re: Dubas, I hated the deadline moves. Rather than stick to his guns - get great hockey players - he listened to fans/crusty old GMs who said they needed grit/leadership/magic. The only solace is that Lou would have dealt Nylander for like Gudbranson, so at least we took the keys away before that happened.

So Dubie listens to fans and Shanny. OK. And get more great players ?? Sure, maybe in a non-cap world and even so where to get these great players because we are still waiting for his picks to arrive to the big team.

 

[Al14]

Shanahan should 100% be fired he is the biggest fraud on this team.

Absolutely a take leader who has taken no criticism and deflected all criticism away to others

He has no role with this team. Get rid of him and hire an experience guy like Jim Rutherford or Dean Lombardi

Dubas I give one last shot depending on how he addresses the media tomorrow. If we fall in the 1st again we have to rebuild the team if marner is still on the roster and we don't shake the core up this year.

I am starting to believe that Shanahan is an NHL plant to keep the Leafs from being REAL Stanley Cup contenders. I point to him hiring Dubas as a very inexperienced NHL G.M. How does Shanahan allow Dubas to OVERPAY players that don't play with any heart the way he did during his NHL career?

This first round exit, when an appearance for a Canadian based team in the Stanley Cup final is GUARANTEED, is the last straw for me. The entire management and coaching staff have got to go !!!

I am resigned to never seeing another Stanley Cup championship for my Leafs. Disappointment after disappointment for 54 years is enough. I was 12 years old when this franchise last won a Stanley Cup !!! f*** the team, f*** the players, f*** the ownership, and f*** Dubas and Shanahan. I'd rather go back to having no hope every year, than being jerked around with severe disappointment EVERY f***ING YEAR !!! Trash the entire organization so I can STOP CARING TOO !!!

 

[tp71]

The day Dubas was hired considering the state of the franchise and the decisions on contracts and finishing construction I said it would be the worst hire in the history of the franchise.

3 years later it’s oddly satisfying to see so many people finally realize what I’ve been trying to say all along. Players like Matthews are so incredibly rare and they’re now potentially 3 years away from losing him with still absolutely nothing but a mess to show for it.

5 wasted years and counting. Tick tock.

While he might not be a good hire, hes certainly not the worst in franchise history when you have Gord Stellick name in the archives of worst hires.

Theres others more recently that id say were more disastrous than Dubas as well.