Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

[sparxx87]

While he might not be a good hire, hes certainly not the worst in franchise history when you have Gord Stellick name in the archives of worst hires.

Theres others more recently that id say were more disastrous than Dubas as well.

Did any of them inherit Matthews, Marner and Nylander level talents on ELC’s with prime aged top 10 goalie and top 15 defenseman on team friendly contracts with term?

He walked into one of the best situations for a team builder in recent memory. 3 years later, where are they at?

 

[socko]

While he might not be a good hire, hes certainly not the worst in franchise history when you have Gord Stellick name in the archives of worst hires.

Theres others more recently that id say were more disastrous than Dubas as well.

We're getting to the point of Detroit Lions fans, the worst run franchise in North American sports, and a team I've supported. Using pathetic history to justify current bad decisions. And where the message board people routinely have better ideas than team management.

 

[Northernguy10]

The fact that the vote is so close to 50/50 actually bodes well for the Shanahan/Dubas being so soon after the playoff collapse...Personally I remember all the years previous to them (most of the last 54 years actually, and I'm reasonably content with the direction we're going in particularly with our drafting...We clearly need changes in some of the players so we'll see where that goes.

 

[Al14]

I better see Dubas tear into Matthews and Marner (mostly Marner) during his press conference. I wanna hear something along the lines of:

"We thought we built a great team this year, but the star players simply did not execute or bother showing up in the playoffs".

Enough of coddling them, show some accountability. Everyone on the team did their jobs except these two guys. Spezza, Willy, Brodie, Kerfoot and Campbell all played fantastic.

I would trade matthews and marner for McDavid in a heartbeat !!! These guys have only heart for money. McDavid would play for the crest on the front of the jersey, not just making appearances doing nothing in the playoffs !!! Thanks for NOTHING, matthews and marner, you took as much money as you could from our Leafs and DO NOTHING in return !!! Where is a PUKE emoji when you need one !!!

 

[Garthinater]

While he might not be a good hire, hes certainly not the worst in franchise history when you have Gord Stellick name in the archives of worst hires.

Theres others more recently that id say were more disastrous than Dubas as well.

How many gms get to inherit a 105 point team with loads of cap space and 2 of the best rfa's in the league?

How many of those gms have nothing but failure to show after 3 years?

Out of those, how many got to keep their job?

 

[4thline]

Players like Matthews are so incredibly rare and they’re now potentially 3 years away from losing him with still absolutely nothing but a mess to show for it.

It seems like we're back into a situation of "Schrodinger's Wasted Core" where Dubas' biggest sin is commitment to the assets that he's supposedly wasting.

 

[tp71]

Did any of them inherit Matthews, Marner and Nylander level talents on ELC’s with prime aged top 10 goalie and top 15 defenseman on team friendly contracts with term?

He walked into one of the best situations for a team builder in recent memory. 3 years later, where are they at?

Jfj inherited Sundin and co and promptly f***ed it up.

I also dont remember any wonderful memories from the Cliff Fletcher return being spectacular. In fact all i remember from that era is him signing someone he thought was someone else and trading two better playera for one lee stempniak.

But if you want to tell me that Dubas is somehow worse than that, you go ahead.

Look, im not saying hes been good. Id say hes probably mediocre at best, but to put him at those levels? At least the leafs have been consitantly decent. I cant say the same for the Leafs under the leadership of Stellick, jfj and out of touch Fletcher.

 

[tp71]

How many gms get to inherit a 105 point team with loads of cap space and 2 of the best rfa's in the league?

How many of those gms have nothing but failure to show after 3 years?

Out of those, how many got to keep their job?

Stellick didnt even make it to three years.

 

[sparxx87]

It seems like we're back into a situation of "Schrodinger's Wasted Core" where Dubas' biggest sin is commitment to the assets that he's supposedly wasting.

It’s the failure to build around them and the massive challenge Dubas created with his salary cap structure.

I don’t know how to fix his mess but I’m not one of those trying to sell Marner for pennies on the dollar, either. If a hockey trade makes sense, sure. Not giving him away, though.

 

[RoadWarrior]

The fact that the vote is so close to 50/50 actually bodes well for the Shanahan/Dubas being so soon after the playoff collapse...Personally I remember all the years previous to them (most of the last 54 years actually, and I'm reasonably content with the direction we're going in particularly with our drafting...We clearly need changes in some of the players so we'll see where that goes.

What bodes well for Shanahan and co. doesn't necessarily bode well for the TML franchise. Those appear to be mutually exclusive.

 

[centipede2233]

And let’s not pretend the Burke era was anything rosy either, and I’m a Burke fan lol

 

[sparxx87]

And let’s not pretend the Burke era was anything rosy either, and I’m a Burke fan lol

He inherited one of the worst rosters in the league. He had little hope of winning a cup in 5 years, even if they swap Kessel for Seguin and Hamilton.

 

[sparxx87]

Jfj inherited Sundin and co and promptly f***ed it up.

I also dont remember any wonderful memories from the Cliff Fletcher return being spectacular. In fact all i remember from that era is him signing someone he thought was someone else and trading two better playera for one lee stempniak.

But if you want to tell me that Dubas is somehow worse than that, you go ahead.

Look, im not saying hes been good. Id say hes probably mediocre at best, but to put him at those levels? At least the leafs have been consitantly decent. I cant say the same for the Leafs under the leadership of Stellick, jfj and out of touch Fletcher.

All relative to what they inherit. Dubas had the big 3 + like 6-7 other 2nd year players that all became cap casualties except Hyman.

 

[4thline]

It’s the failure to build around them and the massive challenge Dubas created with his salary cap structure.

Except that doesn't jive with reality, because the team around them more than did their jobs in this series.

 

[m1ker]

I would trade matthews and marner for McDavid in a heartbeat !!! These guys have only heart for money. McDavid would play for the crest on the front of the jersey, not just making appearances doing nothing in the playoffs !!! Thanks for NOTHING, matthews and marner, you took as much money as you could from our Leafs and DO NOTHING in return !!! Where is a PUKE emoji when you need one !!!

Did you watch the Oilers this playoffs at all?

 

[sparxx87]

Except that doesn't jive with reality, because the team around them more than did their jobs in this series.

I disagree. Said in another thread you can point to 8-9 Habs forwards who made positive impacts at key moments.

Leafs can point to 4-5.

Why?

And what reality? They lost. Again?

 

[ToneDog]

Did any of them inherit Matthews, Marner and Nylander level talents on ELC’s with prime aged top 10 goalie and top 15 defenseman on team friendly contracts with term?

He walked into one of the best situations for a team builder in recent memory. 3 years later, where are they at?

Stellick was green and gifted the job by Ballard. No GM succeeded under Ballard. Forced to trade Courtnall for Kordic by Brophy will be his legacy.

 

[cupcrazyman]

Once shanahan and dubas are fired at some point in the future, it’s unlikely they get the same positions anywhere else. They have shown there ineptitude and people in the industry have taken notice and are likely chuckling behind closed doors.

Shanahan will probably end up back in Detroit someday.

 

[4thline]

I disagree. Said in another thread you can point to 8-9 Habs forwards who made positive impacts at key moments.

Leafs can point to 4-5.

Why?

That's because you decided that's what the problem was before the games were played.

Because our 3 biggest difference makers were either injured/snakebit/ MIA (dependent on the snakebit). 1 goal from JT/AM/MM.

 

[sparxx87]

Stellick was green and gifted the job by Ballard. No GM succeeded under Ballard. Forced to trade Courtnall for Kordic by Brophy will be his legacy.

This was all before my time so I appreciate the history lesson.

I have no doubt the Leafs have had bad management for decades, I’m just not sure any GM has done less relative to what they inherit.

If Matthews leaves in 3 years without winning I think most will agree with me. I really hope that doesn’t happen but honestly think it will.

 

[sparxx87]

That's because you decided that's what the problem was before the games were played.

Because our 3 biggest difference makers were either injured/snakebit/ MIA (dependent on the snakebit). 1 goal from JT/AM/MM.

Not at all.

I saw more players on Montréal elevate their play. That’s my honest opinion. Leafs have more top quality but Habs have more quantities of good quality. If they can slow down a top line they can bury you in their depth.

That’s kind of what happened in 3 straight elimination games.

 

[ottomaddox]

Great. They were both to fix messes made by Lou.

They have become their own messes. How come you don't see that?

 

[4thline]

Not at all.

I saw more players on Montréal elevate their play. That’s my honest opinion. Leafs have more top quality but Habs have more quantities of good quality. If they can slow down a top line they can bury you in their depth.

That’s kind of what happened in 3 straight elimination games.

They didn't bury us in their depth. Our depth did it's job and played even.

If our stars show up they don't get a chance to elevate their play. No team is overcoming 1 goal from their top 3 forwards.

 

[justashadowof]

To be fair to Dubas when comparing to Stellick and JFJ, he hasn't made a Courtnall-Kordic or Raycroft-Rask trade.

 

[AvroArrow]

Did any of them inherit Matthews, Marner and Nylander level talents on ELC’s with prime aged top 10 goalie and top 15 defenseman on team friendly contracts with term?

He walked into one of the best situations for a team builder in recent memory. 3 years later, where are they at?

And Kadri for 4.5M...