Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

[socko]

Never forget this year old article:

NHL Agent Poll: Maple Leafs’ Kyle Dubas Deemed Most Generous GM

I didn't see this the first time around. This is hilarious. They like him because he's a lifetime member of the sap of the month club.

 

[hotpaws]

Dubas looks like knows his time is almost up . He bs'd his way into the position and his incompetence has been exposed .

The only way out of the mess this incompetent fool created is if he grows a pair and gets Johnny PJ's to give a list of teams he'd be willing to be traded too and then hope someone will take him and without retention ,

 

[keonsbitterness]

Dubas looks like knows his time is almost up . He bs'd his way into the position and his incompetence has been exposed .

The only way out of the mess this incompetent fool created is if he grows a pair and gets Johnny PJ's to give a list of teams he'd be willing to be traded too and then hope someone will take him and without retention ,

No way JT would agree to leave. There's nothing in that for him.

 

[hotpaws]

No way JT would agree to leave. There's nothing in that for him.

why would a player want to stay with a team that no longer wants him ? imo it would be easier to get him to waive than find a team to trade him too without retaining

 

[keonsbitterness]

why would a player want to stay with a team that no longer wants him ? imo it would be easier to get him to waive than find a team to trade him too without retaining

You no longer want him. They do.

 

[hotpaws]

You no longer want him. They do.

they'll be out a job a year from now if all they do this summer is fill out the roster with washed up name players and trash from the scrap heap like they did this year

 

[3blizzard4]

they'll be out a job a year from now if all they do this summer is fill out the roster with washed up name players and trash from the scrap heap like they did this year

unless they trade one core player that’s all we will get for 5 years. Washed up players making league minimum. No cap room for anything substantive.

 

[hotpaws]

If they are a stay on course plan because eventually the core will care enough to put in the effort to win. Fire them all

Et tu Lumcro ?

 

[17 Clark]

Both will be gone next year if the Leafs choke again in 2022.

They shouldn’t get the chance I think it’s possible they could mess it up even more

 

[keonsbitterness]

they'll be out a job a year from now if all they do this summer is fill out the roster with washed up name players and trash from the scrap heap like they did this year

Wouldn't affect JT. This is his last big contract. He came home, got married, had two kids, was named captain, etc. He's got no incentive to leave other than maybe in year 7 to chase a Cup.

If a core piece ever gets traded, it will be Marner or Matthews.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Can anyone who has the Athletic confirm whether this was said or not?

A rival NHL Team executive on the Leafs' management and why things again went as expected:

And, reduce their myopic obsession with analytics as being the defacto decision maker. Analytics are important but should only be one of several criteria evaluated in every decision. Both publicly and privately people know that analytics has a disproportionate influence and makes all the player personnel decisions.

 

[Gallagbi]

Can anyone who has the Athletic confirm whether this was said or not?

A rival NHL Team executive on the Leafs' management and why things again went as expected:

And, reduce their myopic obsession with analytics as being the defacto decision maker. Analytics are important but should only be one of several criteria evaluated in every decision. Both publicly and privately people know that analytics has a disproportionate influence and makes all the player personnel decisions.

Seems to contradict the majority of moves we made this year with Simmonds, Thornton, Bogo, Nash and Foligno.

If there was ever a time we went away from stats this felt like the year.

 

[Dreakmur]

Shanahan said he didn’t win until his 10th year.... too bad nobody asked him what happens when all 3 of the home grown core guys are UFAs before their 10th seasons.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Seems to contradict the majority of moves we made this year with Simmonds, Thornton, Bogo, Nash and Foligno.

If there was ever a time we went away from stats this felt like the year.

I don't have the Athletic but you raise a good point and that statement might be true.

If the organization solely relies on analytics, it would explain why, when in a panic and needing to add "grit and toughness", management thought Thornton, Nash, Foligno and Simmonds were the answer.

Bogosian is the exact, perfect bottom pairing dman on a cheap contract you need. The others, we were about half a decade too late.

 

[Matty Sundin]

I honestly want them gone more now after the presser today. Just hard to be a fan of this team now

 

[Gallagbi]

I don't have the Athletic but you raise a good point and that statement might be true.

If the organization solely relies on analytics, it would explain why, when in a panic and needing to add "grit and toughness", management thought Thornton, Nash, Foligno and Simmonds were the answer.

Bogosian is the exact, perfect bottom pairing dman on a cheap contract you need. The others, we were about half a decade too late.

I don't believe any of them were particularly strong in their analytics, and definitely not the best options from that perspective. They did meet a leadership and physical mark many said was needed though.

Bogo did turn out to be a great add and I personally would have taken more Nash and less Thornton/Brooks in the series. Foligno was on one leg whenever he played, so tough to judge.

 

[rdogg]

Dubas should be fired for the Marner contract alone. 10.9m cap hit for another 4 years.

 

[Gallagbi]

Dubas should be fired for the Marner contract alone. 10.9m cap hit for another 4 years.

Owed an average of ~6/yr after the bonus in a few weeks. Easily moveable, and attractive, if they want to go that route

 

[hockeywiz542]

Can anyone who has the Athletic confirm whether this was said or not?

A rival NHL Team executive on the Leafs' management and why things again went as expected:

And, reduce their myopic obsession with analytics as being the defacto decision maker. Analytics are important but should only be one of several criteria evaluated in every decision. Both publicly and privately people know that analytics has a disproportionate influence and makes all the player personnel decisions.

LeBrun: What rival NHL executives are saying about how to fix the Maple Leafs - The Athletic

Team executive No. 4: Step 1: Complete a brutally honest philosophical self assessment.

If you speak to senior people they will quietly tell you they have concerns about the Leafs’ philosophy of: Focusing only on high octane offense with the belief that if you outscore everyone you will win. It seems they would rather beat you 6-5 than 2-1 and we all know that’s not how you succeed in the playoffs. And, reduce their myopic obsession with analytics as being the defacto decision maker. Analytics are important but should only be one of several criteria evaluated in every decision. Both publicly and privately people know that analytics has a disproportionate influence and makes all the player personnel decisions.

Step 2: A complete re-think of their team-building strategy. Their approach has been to collect the highest profile, high-octane offensive players possible and assemble them at the top of the roster. This is both disruptive from a team chemistry perspective and a salary cap management perspective.
From there, they seek out players who they can wedge into their limited cap space to fill out the roster. This results in is a top-heavy lineup with little to no balance from a cap space perspective, a team make up perspective and a competitive perspective. They seem to view the non core players as completely interchangeable parts and we all know that isn’t reality when building a team capable of going deep in the playoffs and winning a Stanley Cup.

Step 3: They need to redistribute some of their cap space differently throughout their lineup. This will provide greater levels of roster stability, overall depth and a much better, balanced team built for playoff competitiveness.

Step 4: Assuming they reduce their dependency on analytics, they need to stop trading draft picks. Their best players were drafted by the Leafs (albeit they were all high picks) and in order to provide a long term, competitive team, they need to ensure they have a steady flow of young players into the organization.

It will take courage to do this because it flies in the face of much of what they have publicly proclaimed they believe in. However, their beliefs have not rendered the desired results and true leadership will have the balls to admit as much and alter their approach. You know the old saying “No guts, no glory.”

 

[Dreakmur]

Owed an average of ~6/yr after the bonus in a few weeks. Easily moveable, and attractive, if they want to go that route

So that’s a win? We just paid him like 30 million for 0 goals in two years of playoffs.... but hey, he’s movable now!!

 

[Gallagbi]

So that’s a win? We just paid him like 30 million for 0 goals in two years of playoffs.... but hey, he’s movable now!!

That's the reality of our situation. The teams paid a substantial amount of money for him to underperform in playoffs, but isn't unmoveable due to his aav like some believe

 

[rdogg]

So that’s a win? We just paid him like 30 million for 0 goals in two years of playoffs.... but hey, he’s movable now!!

It's a win if I don't have to see his ugly face in a Leafs jersey again

 

[Dreakmur]

That's the reality of our situation. The teams paid a substantial amount of money for him to underperform in playoffs, but isn't unmoveable due to his aav like some believe

In a flat cap world, probably half the teams in the league can’t even take the contract if they wanted to.

 

[Gabriel426]

Can you even develop a killer instinct?
I know you can be influence by it but I never seen anyone develop one.
If Scottie could not develop one playing with MJ, I don’t think anyone can.
Look at the core and what they have won-Team wise in their career.
I don’t think AM’s team won anything, I might be wrong.
The Knight won with Marner and he was the MVP of the tournament but Marner didn’t play particularly well in the WJC bc all I heard was Strome before the tournament and Point during the tournament. Once again I could be wrong bc it was a few yrs ago.
JT won a lot and always a battler, and I think the won with Team Canada on different tournaments but the leaders of those teams were Sid, Toews and others.
Willie won the WC and was the MVP, but the leader of that team was Backstorm.
Point is where is the killer instinct?
Having said that, I don’t think ROR won anything either and he led the Blues to victory.
Just think the Leafs need players who played on true contending teams and can still play on the team.
Jumbo is one of my fav but he really can’t keep up. Simmonds is tough but he rarely played in the playoffs even in his prime. Really wish Nash and Nick can come back.

 

[Gallagbi]

In a flat cap world, probably half the teams in the league can’t even take the contract if they wanted to.

They don't need half the league to want him. They need enough for a market and there would be that.