Byrddog
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2007
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Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)
- Thread starter PromisedLand
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ottomaddox
Registered User
ottomaddox
Registered User
The list is getting pretty long actually.
Just take a few seconds to think of all the transactions in the last 3 years. Coaches too.
And Bozak for less than 5M whose since proven he could have been the 3C on a championship team.
robertmac43
Forever 43!
- Mar 31, 2015
- 25,012
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In your eyes, what is the problem? Cause you never really mentioned any problem; just that he is a 'wonder boy', 'pissing away our window'.
He's made some good moves since coming here as well, we should recognize those as well. Campbell, Muzzin, Brodie, Galchenyuk were all really good moves by him. But no doubt, mismanaging those contracts has led us to where we are. I'm not sure how we fix it. Get lucky and have some stud D-men just come out of nowhere ? I dunno. The big 4 are off the table according to him, so i'm not sure where that leaves us. What moves can we even make ?
Brodie was his best addition. Liked Bogosian as well. Muzzin was good but it might turn bad very soon. Turning 33 signed 3 more years almost $6M and injured the last two playoffs/play-in.
Campbell is good 1B. Like him a lot but also cost futures to fix a problem Dubas foolishly created.
Don’t agree about Galchenyuk. He offers some flash but he’s bad at a lot of little things without the puck and he hurt them a lot because of it.
What do people even want to see a new gm do? Blow it up? Trade core players? Minor tweaks?
1. Blowing it up would be a hard sell
2. Jt has a nmc, Nylander is good value, Mathews... just no. Marner is the obvious choice here and I don't think this is off the table for Dubas.
3. Probably the most likely to happen because trading high end pieces doesn't happen often. Wouldn't be the end of the world if the team largely comes back with only some tweaks to the bottom 9.
1. Blowing it up would be a hard sell
2. Jt has a nmc, Nylander is good value, Mathews... just no. Marner is the obvious choice here and I don't think this is off the table for Dubas.
3. Probably the most likely to happen because trading high end pieces doesn't happen often. Wouldn't be the end of the world if the team largely comes back with only some tweaks to the bottom 9.
AngryScotsman
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nuck
Schrodingers Cat
- Aug 18, 2005
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It doesn't need to be blown up IMO. I think Keefe needs to go most of all because he overused Marner and to a lesser extent Matthews in the regular season. Plus the pp sucked and that still comes back to him even if you think Malhotra was making all the calls. He has never coached stars before so all he does is let them freelance. Maybe if he had a couple of years as an assistant he could have picked some of that stuff up but... Giving him particular credit for turning the club around after they imploded under Babs disregards that they were a back to back 100pt club the two years before plus they replaced the uber-porous Hutch. My guess is any coach would have gotten a nice bounce back and maybe even beat the Jackets in the playoffs. That will make them better and IMO opinion make Marner better as he only became a playoff void under Keefe.
Beyond the above, "minor tweaks" scares me as this team now has such a legacy of futility attached to their core its just an extra burden for the next post season if they return intact. I agree Marner out for the right return could help solve a couple of issues but I don't see that under Dubas. Rielly more likely than the big 3 as there is a real chance they can't afford his next deal, and maybe both he and Mitch if a new GM appears.
Bluebear
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- Nov 30, 2018
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I wouldn't fire Shannahan yet. He got Babcock when the leafs sucked balls and and other teams were after him. He attracted Lamoriello at the same time. Helped get Tavaras. He hired a young GM (instead of let him get poached) and tried to hit a homerun, and it hasn't worked. There is absolutely no gauruntee a new president doesn't hire a new GM that blows up the core and buggers it up making us wish for Shannahan back. I would let Shannahan hire another GM or let him run with Dubas for at least one more year before I looked to fire him if I owned the team.
32 Teams all (or at least most) with smart hockey people and advisors running them. The best coaches. Average is making the playoffs every second year. For me you fire a GM when they are squandering assets and not getting results, if they don't get on ice performance but can still tweak in the summer they deserve a bit of a run. The Leafs have room to tweak, but blowing up the core will have huge risk because will probably lose the best assets in the trade. Could lead to a better team with the extra cap space, but if any prospects coming in don't pan out or draft picks, the team could go downhill quick.
Either way, I would let Shannahan decide, if he brought a new GM I'd give him a couple years to see how it works out. but if he goes with Dubas, both of them would have only next year.
32 Teams all (or at least most) with smart hockey people and advisors running them. The best coaches. Average is making the playoffs every second year. For me you fire a GM when they are squandering assets and not getting results, if they don't get on ice performance but can still tweak in the summer they deserve a bit of a run. The Leafs have room to tweak, but blowing up the core will have huge risk because will probably lose the best assets in the trade. Could lead to a better team with the extra cap space, but if any prospects coming in don't pan out or draft picks, the team could go downhill quick.
Either way, I would let Shannahan decide, if he brought a new GM I'd give him a couple years to see how it works out. but if he goes with Dubas, both of them would have only next year.
Al14
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2007
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My bet would be that Shanahan ends back as an executive with the NHL having successfully brought a perceived respectability to the Leafs without a Stanley Cup Championship. JMHO.
Not a big Steve Simmons fan, but I like the question and follow up he did with Shanahan
Willing to bet it was malhotra who leaked that marner pp info. Needs to explain his incompetence at his next interview.
- Jan 22, 2007
- 14,662
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All emotion and hyperbole aside, I think Shanny and Dubas deserve a little more leash -- on one condition -- Dubas replaces Keefe. I am not a fan of Keefe, and until he proves me wrong, don't believe he has what it takes to lead the Leafs to a championship.
Trying to be fair, Dubas proved to me that he was willing to be open-minded and tried his best to address some weaknesses. I think the signings of Brodie, Thornton, Simmonds and Bogosian were all-around good, not great, but solid. I think the Foligno trade is unfortunate because he was injured and we never got to see what he could bring to the table. I don't think Dubas deserves that blame, he's not a fortune teller.
Trying to be fair, Dubas proved to me that he was willing to be open-minded and tried his best to address some weaknesses. I think the signings of Brodie, Thornton, Simmonds and Bogosian were all-around good, not great, but solid. I think the Foligno trade is unfortunate because he was injured and we never got to see what he could bring to the table. I don't think Dubas deserves that blame, he's not a fortune teller.
Good bet as he lives there anywho with his wife and family .. da condo thing in TO and da back and forth must have been hard on him .. he is likely hardest hit as it has been a long time since he could go home but no one cares about that right now
killer1980
Registered User
Anyone who thinks that this past year's regular season performance in the league's weakest division has anything to do with reality has been smoking more than recreational marijuana. The fact remains the team has regressed every year under Dubas' leadership. All things being equal, the Leafs don't make the playoffs next year and management will proudly proclaim it has been the best learning experience yet.
phillipmike
Registered User
- Oct 27, 2009
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And depending how Seth Jarvis turns out, perhaps the Marleau trade as well. JFJ made a similar trade, picks for Toskala that helped San Jose land Logan Couture.
History will tell if Rask and Couture looks as bad as Kadri and Jarvis. Not to mention letting assets go for free like Gardiner, Barrie, McBackup etc. No GM is perfect but guys like Marchment and Barbanov were moved for nothing and they found success on other teams.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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They’ve been hemorrhaging assets over the past few years, turning a young team building through the draft into a free agent patch work in under half a decade.
I'd fire Shanny he has had enough time and get someone who can guide Dubas better.
I think Shanny is too hands off and Dubas has too much autonomy.
I think Shanny is too hands off and Dubas has too much autonomy.
phillipmike
Registered User
- Oct 27, 2009
- 12,709
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And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that approach... if it works.
But if it doesnt work then you deserve all the criticism you get.
Mickey Marner
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