Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

[PromisedLand]

Next year is the final year for this management and coach to show this can work. They will practically have the same team or at least much of the same team minus some interchangeable spare parts like Simmonds or Thornton.

if the North was trash as many claim then next year will Be even harder and the teams that finished below us will be better such as Ottawa.

my guess if by December if we are floundering Keefe will be axed. Then off-season both Shanahan and Dubas will be gone.

You do not let them screw the leafs even more than they already have. DO NOT allow them to make any moves. I have absolutely ZERO faith in them

 

[ToneDog]

As I’ve said, once you commit to that 1-2 punch for dollars, you don’t add an 11 million winger.

You can give each center 2 wingers that total 11, but not one. That’s an entire 3rd line.

Needed to bridge marner. No risk when you gave him top dollar on 6 year deal. Just dumb by the Boy Blunder.

 

[Garthinater]

The nhl is a results oriented business. You don't get brownie points for making moves that looked good at the time.

Dubas took over a 105 point team. His first year we got 100 points and lost in the first round.

Dubas' 2nd season we regressed even further and were on pace for 95 points. We also lost to columbus in the 5 game qualifier and never even made the playoffs.

Now we just finished his 3rd season. We somehow lost to a team that shouldn't even have made the playoffs.

This is all while having the most lopsided cap structure in the league and barely any draft picks over the next 2 years.

Our prospect pool is ranked ~20th.

Lou went to an islanders team that only had ~80 points and yet has gone further than us every single year.

How many years are we going to let this guy ruin our team?

I'm starting to realize that for some posters, Kyle is more important than the team.

 

[Trapper]

Or, just don’t sign Tavares. There’s a poll asking Tavares vs Kadri, Brown, Kapanen. The answer is 3 good players when you already have 3 great players ahead of them.

Even if we forget the contracts for the big 3, it’s the Tavares deal that really upset their internal cap. 2c should be like 7-8m max, not 11. That was never going to work.

It was always going to have to be Marner as ‘easiest to move’ when they signed a UFA with a NMC right before those RFA deals.

Tavares was signed, it’s done and can’t be undone.
Dubas signed it, not anyone else.
Then he was given the chance to prove his can and will. It’s failing. Each year depth has diminished, playoff performance has regressed and assets have been spent and lost.

That’s your chance. Didn’t work. Now it needs to be corrected. Not do the same thing.

 

[sparxx87]

You do not let them screw the leafs even more than they already have. DO NOT allow them to make any moves. I have absolutely ZERO faith in them

Another year trading draft picks at the deadline to replace the bottom of the barrel free agents that didn’t work out on a fundamentally flawed roster.

 

[Trapper]

Needed to bridge marner. No risk when you gave him top dollar on 6 year deal. Just dumb by the Boy Blunder.

Things would definitely be a lot different if Marner was on the last year of a 6 million bridge.
That would also have given you a team playoff success sample size.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Lou gets Palmieri. Kyle gets Foligno.

 

[ToneDog]

Tavares was signed, it’s done and can’t be undone.
Dubas signed it, not anyone else.
Then he was given the chance to prove his can and will. It’s failing. Each year depth has diminished, playoff performance has regressed and assets have been spent and lost.

That’s your chance. Didn’t work. Now it needs to be corrected. Not do the same thing.

That is the problem. Dubas is making it up as he goes. You do not win by filling your roster off the shelf year after year.

 

[socko]

Another year trading draft picks at the deadline to replace the bottom of the barrel free agents that didn’t work out on a fundamentally flawed roster.

Can we at least make sure they're healthy this time before we give up the picks? Just an idea...

 

[Cleetus]

That is the problem. Dubas is making it up as he goes. You do not win by filling your roster off the shelf year after year.

exactly.... not to sure how much longer the fans have to put up with that incompetence....

 

[hfman]

it's pushing 20 years since the last playoff victory. wow.

on average that's about 1/4 of someone's lifetime. a hell of a lot happens in two decades. a baby in diapers grows up, graduates high school and enters college/university during that amount of time. and can we imagine, not having a leaf playoff victory during that entire process?

almost impossible to comprehend.

haha the bottom line is that this entire franchise is pure and utter garbage

there is without a single doubt, a real fundamental, inherent problem with the way this franchise operates in order for the same sh-t to keep happening over the course of 20 years. it's always different players, different management, but the result never changes. so it's not management, it's not the players - there's something else going on here.

 

[Cpt Maple Leaf]

This may have been the best team in my life time and we were playing in the weakest division against the worst team that made the playoffs in the first round (Montreal with 59 points).

And people should cover their eyes for the next part;

By the way, we were set to meet the 2nd worst team to make the playoffs in terms of points in the 2nd round, Winnipeg with 63 points.

Worst teams to make the playoffs:
Montreal - 59 points
Winnipeg & St. Louis - 63 pts
Nashville - 64 pts

And we found a way to blow this.
Literally they gave us the easiest path of any team IN NHL HISTORY and they still couldn’t win a round.

The Dubas supporters want to play this off as any other year like it’s nothing. This was a golden opportunity for the Leafs that they will never get back. We are back in a division where we are going to play Boston or Tampa in the first round.

Complete failure and to say they are staying the course is incompetence.

They don't have enough backbone with current lineup. Watching isles bruins and you thought they played scared against mtl, there will be a large collective puddle of piss on the leafs bench when they finally do play a real physical team like these two.

 

[Dreakmur]

Tavares was signed, it’s done and can’t be undone.
Dubas signed it, not anyone else.
Then he was given the chance to prove his can and will. It’s failing. Each year depth has diminished, playoff performance has regressed and assets have been spent and lost.

That’s your chance. Didn’t work. Now it needs to be corrected. Not do the same thing.

The depth was actually pretty good this year. It was the 3 guys making 11 million who didn't contribute.

I would unload Marner, but it is possible to re-tool this and take another run. If Hyman walks as a UFA, and Seattle takes Kerfoot, we'll have 15 million to play with.

With that, we NEED a legit 3rd line centre. We NEED two guys in the top-6 who play a straight-line game. We NEED some PKers who can win faceoffs.

 

[sparxx87]

The depth was actually pretty good this year. It was the 3 guys making 11 million who didn't contribute.

I would unload Marner, but it is possible to re-tool this and take another run. If Hyman walks as a UFA, and Seattle takes Kerfoot, we'll have 15 million to play with.

With that, we NEED a legit 3rd line centre. We NEED two guys in the top-6 who play a straight-line game. We NEED some PKers who can win faceoffs.

Agree with the last part 100%.

Depth wasn’t bad, there just wasn’t enough of it IMO. Contenders seem to have 7-9 FWDs who can star in their roles. After the ‘big’ 4 the Leafs have ??

 

[Dreakmur]

Agree with the last part 100%.

Depth wasn’t bad, there just wasn’t enough of it IMO. Contenders seem to have 7-9 FWDs who can star in their roles. Leafs have ??

For me, it was more that he depth guys were just the wrong kind of depth more than how good they were. We had two legitimate centres. Kerfoot and Engvall aren't centres. Spezza and Thornton are no longer centres.

 

[sparxx87]

Lou gets Palmieri. Kyle gets Foligno.

Lou gets star 3rd centre and playoff performer JG Pageau for nothing off his roster...

...Dubas gets Kerfoot for Kadri off his roster.

The amount of wtf decisions in such a short amount of time is truly staggering.

 

[sparxx87]

For me, it was more that he depth guys were just the wrong kind of depth more than how good they were. We had two legitimate centres. Kerfoot and Engvall aren't centres. Spezza and Thornton are no longer centres.

That too. Centre ice was always my biggest concern. A legitimate #3 and a solid 4 (preferably RH) that can kill.. and I wouldn’t mind another bottom/middle 6 winger that can move to the middle.

Tampa has 7-8 FWDs that can effectively play centre. Leafs had two, and lost one of them eight minutes in.

 

[Stephen]

Lou gets star 3rd centre and playoff performer JG Pageau for nothing off his roster...

...Dubas gets Kerfoot for Kadri off his roster.

The amount of wtf decisions in such a short amount of time is truly staggering.

I wouldn't necessarily point to Pageau (who was a rental) or his salary the Islanders signed as a great deal even if the Islanders are having success now.

The reality is the Islanders have more freedom to make these kind of overpayments to build depth because they don't have the top end, expensive talent the Leafs do. The downside of this Lou style team building is they probably don't have cup winning capabilities, and in a few years when the recipe sours they'll be left with a semi uncompetitive grit grind mess we saw with the New Jersey Devils before their big rebuild. What made Lou so successful in New Jersey is he had a Hall of Fame foundation to build this kind of program. But on the Island, I don't see it.

 

[the squared circle]

Lou gets Palmieri. Kyle gets Foligno.

but Lou makes you shave, therefore he must not know hockey anymore

 

[sparxx87]

I wouldn't necessarily point to Pageau (who was a rental) or his salary the Islanders signed as a great deal even if the Islanders are having success now.

The reality is the Islanders have more freedom to make these kind of overpayments to build depth because they don't have the top end, expensive talent the Leafs do. The downside of this Lou style team building is they probably don't have cup winning capabilities, and in a few years when the recipe sours they'll be left with a semi uncompetitive grit grind mess we saw with the New Jersey Devils before their big rebuild. What made Lou so successful in New Jersey is he had a Hall of Fame foundation to build this kind of program. But on the Island, I don't see it.

True, but if they’re able to extend the player, it’s no longer a rental.

I agree with you they need another top tier talent that’s most often only found at the top of the draft, but he’s really built a good team behind Barzal. It’s disappointing we never got to see what he was going to do with Matthews/Marner/Nylander.

 

[Dreakmur]

That too. Centre ice was always my biggest concern. A legitimate #3 and a solid 4 (preferably RH) that can kill.. and I wouldn’t mind another bottom/middle 6 winger that can move to the middle.

Tampa has 7-8 FWDs that can effectively play centre. Leafs had two, and lost one of them eight minutes in.

Casey Cizikas and Sean Kuraly would be ideal #3 and #4 guys.

 

[FraumBallard]

I wouldn't necessarily point to Pageau (who was a rental) or his salary the Islanders signed as a great deal even if the Islanders are having success now.

The reality is the Islanders have more freedom to make these kind of overpayments to build depth because they don't have the top end, expensive talent the Leafs do. The downside of this Lou style team building is they probably don't have cup winning capabilities, and in a few years when the recipe sours they'll be left with a semi uncompetitive grit grind mess we saw with the New Jersey Devils before their big rebuild. What made Lou so successful in New Jersey is he had a Hall of Fame foundation to build this kind of program. But on the Island, I don't see it.

Lou is miles better than Wonder Boy.
Period.
No amount of hypotheticals can change that.
You are completely guessing as to NYI future while Leafs future looks much more predictable , in a bad way.
Fire Shanahan.
Fire Wonder Boy.
Fire Keefe.
They are ruining what should have been a Chi 3 in 6 type run.
Disgraceful.

 

[sparxx87]

Lou is miles better than Wonder Boy.
Period.
No amount of hypotheticals can change that.
You are completely guessing as to NYI future while Leafs future looks much more predictable , in a bad way.
Fire Shanahan.
Fire Wonder Boy.
Fire Keefe.
They are ruining what should have been a Chi 3 in 6 type run.
Disgraceful.

Well, at least when Lamoriello trades futures he gets players that help their team have success.

Dubas will have only 33 year old Jake Muzzin to show for 3 first round draft picks if Foligno leaves and still zero playoff series’ won.

 

[capfit9]

Credit to Shanahan as he did say guys are going to have to sacrifice but so far the core are not sacrificing whether that's on the ice or off (salaries).

 

[TorontoTrades]

Think of last years teams. Now tell me Dubas didnt do enough to fill those gaps.
This failure is not on him.