Fire Shanahan/Dubas (Yay or Nay)

[phillipmike]

Omitting what actually happened to continue to support your perspective. Do you happen to work in law?

Finished 1st in a joke of a division which won't be the case next year where leafs are 3rd to 6th best team

We're up 3-1 even after losing said star player and won 3 in a row without the player

Team failed to close out the series not 1, not 2 , but 3 times to the 18th seeded team in the league

We're extreme favorites to win this series

You yourself were going on from game 5 to 7 how people were overreacting and leafs would win the series in the end

President has been here for 7 years and has not won 1 single round in his tenure with 5 straight 1st round exits, 3 of which we were supposed to win

GM/President refuse to make any major changes and have said the core is safe, marner is safe. Will make small additions/replacements to the bottom of the lineup but otherwise are running back the team which lost to the worst playoff team in the league

Shanahan should've been fired after CBJ. This loss to MTL has him entering Bergervin level for incompetence only to be saved by a idiotic owner(s) who are blindly committed to a man who won't be capable of helping build a winner

This may have been the best team in my life time and we were playing in the weakest division against the worst team that made the playoffs in the first round (Montreal with 59 points).

And people should cover their eyes for the next part;

By the way, we were set to meet the 2nd worst team to make the playoffs in terms of points in the 2nd round, Winnipeg with 63 points.

Worst teams to make the playoffs:
Montreal - 59 points
Winnipeg & St. Louis - 63 pts
Nashville - 64 pts

And we found a way to blow this.
Literally they gave us the easiest path of any team IN NHL HISTORY and they still couldn’t win a round.

The Dubas supporters want to play this off as any other year like it’s nothing. This was a golden opportunity for the Leafs that they will never get back. We are back in a division where we are going to play Boston or Tampa in the first round.

Complete failure and to say they are staying the course is incompetence.

 

[Trapper]

It’s pretty obvious that Dubas, Keefe and the core return.

So, I would like a no lose year.
Which means, either I win because we get some serious good playoff hockey and advancement, or Dubas is gone and the core is changed by the next one.

That would be about where I am at with the situation.

 

[IPS]

This may have been the best team in my life time and we were playing in the weakest division against the worst team that made the playoffs in the first round (Montreal with 59 points).

And people should cover their eyes for the next part;

By the way, we were set to meet the 2nd worst team to make the playoffs in terms of points in the 2nd round, Winnipeg with 63 points.

Worst teams to make the playoffs:
Montreal - 59 points
Winnipeg & St. Louis - 63 pts
Nashville - 64 pts

And we found a way to blow this.
Literally they gave us the easiest path of any team IN NHL HISTORY and they still couldn’t win a round.

The Dubas supporters want to play this off as any other year like it’s nothing. This was a golden opportunity for the Leafs that they will never get back. We are back in a division where we are going to play Boston or Tampa in the first round.

Complete failure and to say they are staying the course is incompetence.

You don't even have to go that deep.

At the end of the day - the Leafs choked a 3-1 lead to a team that had no business even being in the playoffs.

It's pure lunacy that Dubas likely isn't getting fired and no modifications are going to be made to the core.

 

[Garthinater]

This may have been the best team in my life time and we were playing in the weakest division against the worst team that made the playoffs in the first round (Montreal with 59 points).

And people should cover their eyes for the next part;

By the way, we were set to meet the 2nd worst team to make the playoffs in terms of points in the 2nd round, Winnipeg with 63 points.

Worst teams to make the playoffs:
Montreal - 59 points
Winnipeg & St. Louis - 63 pts
Nashville - 64 pts

And we found a way to blow this.
Literally they gave us the easiest path of any team IN NHL HISTORY and they still couldn’t win a round.

The Dubas supporters want to play this off as any other year like it’s nothing. This was a golden opportunity for the Leafs that they will never get back. We are back in a division where we are going to play Boston or Tampa in the first round.

Complete failure and to say they are staying the course is incompetence.

Very good point.

When do we forsee boston, Tampa and Florida falling off? All 3 are probably going to be top teams for awhile.

We only had Montreal and Winnipeg to beat to make the semi finals. I doubt we ever get an opportunity like this again.

Dubas wasted another year and another 1st round pick.

I thought after the last 2 embarrassing seasons the dubas cult would wake up. But it appears that even after a 3rd they are still as blind as ever.

 

[Mickey Marner]

This may have been the best team in my life time and we were playing in the weakest division against the worst team that made the playoffs in the first round (Montreal with 59 points).

And people should cover their eyes for the next part;

By the way, we were set to meet the 2nd worst team to make the playoffs in terms of points in the 2nd round, Winnipeg with 63 points.

Worst teams to make the playoffs:
Montreal - 59 points
Winnipeg & St. Louis - 63 pts
Nashville - 64 pts

And we found a way to blow this.
Literally they gave us the easiest path of any team IN NHL HISTORY and they still couldn’t win a round.

The Dubas supporters want to play this off as any other year like it’s nothing. This was a golden opportunity for the Leafs that they will never get back. We are back in a division where we are going to play Boston or Tampa in the first round.

Complete failure and to say they are staying the course is incompetence.

Yep, it's a joke.
Our playoff opponents by year

• Washington, .720 PTS%
• Boston, .683 PTS%
• Boston, .652 PTS%
• Columbus, .579 PTS%
• Montreal, .527 PTS%

This past year was as easy as it gets and it'll never be that easy again.

Our playoff competition gets scaled down every year and each time we lose the sycophants have to manufacture new and improved excuses as to why we failed. Babcock, Kadri, goaltending, injuries, blah blah blah. Winners overcome adversity, losers make excuses.

No cap space, no draft picks, no series wins. I can't even discern which direction we're supposed to be heading and it's all due to the guys in charge of directing this team.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

When I look at tall the teams still playing that are currently legitimate cup contenders, there's one thing they all have in common.

They have a series of players who perform WELL above their aav.

The leafs don't really have any single player that performs above their aav. Matthews earned his 11.6 this year... but nobody would call that contract a steal. Tavares probably underperformed his aav. I don't think anybody would say Maner outplayed his aav. Go up and down the lineup. Who outperformed their aav?

Now look at the competitive teams. Pastrnak, Mackinnon, Aho, Point, Hedman, Bergeron, Marchand, Landesgog, the list goes on and on.

The best case we can make is Campbell, but his stats weren't even any better than Andy's last year... and that also puts 5 mil of dead cap space on our bench.

I don' think we can compete with these teams.

 

[centipede2233]

When I look at tall the teams still playing that are currently legitimate cup contenders, there's one thing they all have in common.

They have a series of players who perform WELL above their aav.

The leafs don't really have any single player that performs above their aav. Matthews earned his 11.6 this year... but nobody would call that contract a steal. Tavares probably underperformed his aav. I don't think anybody would say Maner outplayed his aav. Go up and down the lineup. Who outperformed their aav?

Now look at the competitive teams. Pastrnak, Mackinnon, Aho, Point, Hedman, Bergeron, Marchand, Landesgog, the list goes on and on.

The best case we can make is Campbell, but his stats weren't even any better than Andy's last year... and that also puts 5 mil of dead cap space on our bench.

I don' think we can compete with these teams.

Exactly. Winning the cup really comes down to production to caphit, it’s that simple.

 

[Anthrax442]

Literally they gave us the easiest path of any team IN NHL HISTORY and they still couldn’t win a round.

 

[killer1980]

Caption: "Can you believe how many of the Leaf fans still think Kyle Dubas is doing a good job?"

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

When I look at tall the teams still playing that are currently legitimate cup contenders, there's one thing they all have in common.

They have a series of players who perform WELL above their aav.

The leafs don't really have any single player that performs above their aav. Matthews earned his 11.6 this year... but nobody would call that contract a steal. Tavares probably underperformed his aav. I don't think anybody would say Maner outplayed his aav. Go up and down the lineup. Who outperformed their aav?

Now look at the competitive teams. Pastrnak, Mackinnon, Aho, Point, Hedman, Bergeron, Marchand, Landesgog, the list goes on and on.

The best case we can make is Campbell, but his stats weren't even any better than Andy's last year... and that also puts 5 mil of dead cap space on our bench.

I don' think we can compete with these teams.

Spezza is arguably one of the best deals in the league. Galchenyuk was decent value as well. I agree with the general point though, we needed a lot more from the stars.

 

[darrylsittler27]

This team is now directionless in cap hell. Utter failure and our prospect pool is 20th as many will be coming for raises. Rebuild destroyed.

 

[3blizzard4]

Next year is the final year for this management and coach to show this can work. They will practically have the same team or at least much of the same team minus some interchangeable spare parts like Simmonds or Thornton.

if the North was trash as many claim then next year will Be even harder and the teams that finished below us will be better such as Ottawa.

my guess if by December if we are floundering Keefe will be axed. Then off-season both Shanahan and Dubas will be gone.

 

[IPS]

Spezza is arguably one of the best deals in the league. Galchenyuk was decent value as well. I agree with the general point though, we needed a lot more from the stars.

He's talking about star players outperforming their deals.

Those same teams also have plenty of depth players outperforming their deals. There's no passengers on those teams.

 

[rumman]

When I look at tall the teams still playing that are currently legitimate cup contenders, there's one thing they all have in common.

They have a series of players who perform WELL above their aav.

The leafs don't really have any single player that performs above their aav. Matthews earned his 11.6 this year... but nobody would call that contract a steal. Tavares probably underperformed his aav. I don't think anybody would say Maner outplayed his aav. Go up and down the lineup. Who outperformed their aav?

Now look at the competitive teams. Pastrnak, Mackinnon, Aho, Point, Hedman, Bergeron, Marchand, Landesgog, the list goes on and on.

The best case we can make is Campbell, but his stats weren't even any better than Andy's last year... and that also puts 5 mil of dead cap space on our bench.

I don' think we can compete with these teams.

Not a core piece but Spezza play well above his pay grade.

 

[rumman]

Caption: "Can you believe how many of the Leaf fans still think Kyle Dubas is doing a good job?"

Sad but true......

 

[Legendary]

They’re still here because half the fan base still supports them lol

 

[BrannigansLaw]

They’re still here because half the fan base still supports them lol

Half the fan base are stupid af so that shouldn’t even be a factor.

 

[Legendary]

Half the fan base are stupid af so that shouldn’t even be a factor.

If there were more of an uproar from that half of the fan base they might have no choice but to do something with this management. Too many people are enthralled with their narrative.

 

[Trapper]

Sad but true......

Remember when our 3rd line was Kadri-Kapanen-Johnson and because of that Connor Brown had to jump on the 4th line.

That’s been completely destroyed by Dubas in favour of his 4 “warriors”.

What have we got to show for it now?
And trading 1sts to support them because they need it even more????

 

[Northernguy10]

Point #1...I would assume we were all happy with the team that won the division , going into the playoffs?...Therefore we had a good team on paper and we all felt confident going in re: talent and we thought, heart and desire. This would mean Dubas put a good team together. The players didn't perform up to playoff standards. That isn't on Dubas. He did his job. Many of the players didn't. How he corrects this will be interesting going forward... Point #2..Despite not playing well we could have still won the series. We could have/should have won game #1 and that possibly would have given us a 4 game sweep and Dubas would have been king. Bounces and injuries often determine a series and although most teams go through these things, losing Tavares influenced the series in my mind... Losing your #2 center in a 7 game series, you'd have to think he'd have at least chipped in with a few crucial offensive points and a defensive play or two. I heard on one of the talk shows recently that some of the signings weren't necessarily Dubas' choice and they should leave him to do his job so , if true, that has to stop. Point #3.. Under Dubas we have developed a very good organizational structure with some shrewd drafting. He's made mistakes for sure like all GMs do. I like where we are heading but we clearly need some depth that is younger, faster and tenacious come playoff time. I'm curious. Give me some names of GMs you'd like to see replace him?

 

[sparxx87]

Remember when our 3rd line was Kadri-Kapanen-Johnson and because of that Connor Brown had to jump on the 4th line.

That’s been completely destroyed by Dubas in favour of his 4 “warriors”.

What have we got to show for it now?
And trading 1sts to support them because they need it even more????

The question was always about how to afford the big 3 RFA’s and keep as much talent around them.

Dubas got rid of all that talent and essentially replaced it with $11m Tavares and and Kerfoot. Kerfoot is their only real mid level contract up front.

The goal was supposed to be to keep 3-4 of those mid level players, like Tampa and the other successful teams do.

 

[Trapper]

The question was always about how to afford the big 3 RFA’s and keep as much talent around them.

Dubas got rid of all that talent and essentially replaced it with $11m Tavares and and Kerfoot. Kerfoot is their only real mid level contract up front.

The goal was supposed to be to keep 3-4 of those mid level players, like Tampa and the other successful teams do.

As I’ve said, once you commit to that 1-2 punch for dollars, you don’t add an 11 million winger.

You can give each center 2 wingers that total 11, but not one. That’s an entire 3rd line.

 

[Stephen]

This team is now directionless in cap hell. Utter failure and our prospect pool is 20th as many will be coming for raises. Rebuild destroyed.

I would say the rebuild has lost a ton of momentum on the present oriented trades and bleed out of own rentals over the past 4-5 years and generally underwhelming drafting outside the first round. They need a pretty dramatic offseason to trade away, restructure the cap and buy heavy in free agency to get things back on track in an upward climb.

But if the Leafs were ever to actually take the team apart, there’s a lot of value on the roster that would bring boat loads of assets for a retool. Not that worried about that.

 

[sparxx87]

As I’ve said, once you commit to that 1-2 punch for dollars, you don’t add an 11 million winger.

You can give each center 2 wingers that total 11, but not one. That’s an entire 3rd line.

Or, just don’t sign Tavares. There’s a poll asking Tavares vs Kadri, Brown, Kapanen. The answer is 3 good players when you already have 3 great players ahead of them.

Even if we forget the contracts for the big 3, it’s the Tavares deal that really upset their internal cap. 2c should be like 7-8m max, not 11. That was never going to work.

It was always going to have to be Marner as ‘easiest to move’ when they signed a UFA with a NMC right before those RFA deals.

 

[PromisedLand]

This team is now directionless in cap hell. Utter failure and our prospect pool is 20th as many will be coming for raises. Rebuild destroyed.

Dubas has absolutely ruined the promise that was the Leafs and shanahan has let it happen right in front of everyone.

The culture that shanahan and dubas have fostered is 10 times worst than the Muskoka5 culture. It is downright pathetic

I am absolutely disgusted as a Leafs fan.