Erik Karlsson vs Luke Schenn

[Milan the God*]

The maturity level of leafs fans never cease to amaze me.

Gotta give props to a lot in here. A lot are being really classy and putting up a good argument.

 

[Samsquanch]

Bergeron had as many points as Karlsson in 6 less games in his rookie season. They both play a similar game and are both pretty much the same size.

Problem?

EK = MAB

Schenn = Foote

We've got problems friend

 

[dubey]

EK = MAB

Schenn = Foote

We've got problems friend

Good.

Is everyone in agreement now? Only took 10 pages but we're all the better for it.

 

[Milan the God*]

Bergeron had as many points as Karlsson in 6 less games in his rookie season. They both play a similar game and are both pretty much the same size.

Problem?

Bergeron was 23 when he started his rookie season. Karlsson was 19. Kind of hard to compare.

 

[dubey]

Bergeron was 23 when he started his rookie season. Karlsson was 19. Kind of hard to compare.

That shouldn't matter. From what I've gathered through reading this thread, most players don't progress past the age of 20 anyways.

 

[Milan the God*]

That shouldn't matter. From what I've gathered through reading this thread, most players don't progress past the age of 20 anyways.

Find a post where anyone said Schenn won't progress any more. I think all Sens fans are aware that Schenn's gonna be a great defenseman defensively who puts up near 30 points in his prime.

 

[bobermay]

Notice how I said limit him? As is in not cripple, but limit him. Lmao if you think Luke is going to spend the summer running and come back to the NHL and start leading the rush down the ice. You are delusional.

Limit... what do you mean by that then? So you agree, it isn't a stretch to say he can get 30-40 points? I didn't say Schenn will be an offensive dynamo over the course of one summer. Your trying to put words in my mouth now.

Fine, I'll post this for a third time in this thread:


He already HAS led rushes down the ice. His offensive game is there, it will be interesting to see how it further develops...

And Whose delusional? lol... quote what I said that is totally unrealistic...

Thats not Lukes game. Not to mention hes still growing, and putting on weight while he fills out. Hes going to have to do everything in his power to keep the mobility he has until hes finished filling out and can adjust to his weight.

Schenn can probably pass the puck well, Im not trying to take that away from him. But he wont ever be a mobile 2-way force, thats not in the cards for him, deal with it.

I don't think filling out affects your mobility, not if you fill out properly. I mean, look at Evgeny Artyhukin and Dustin Byfuglien. They're monsters, but a great skaters. And these two are 2 of the 5 heavyest players in the league.

I'm not saying that Schenn is a better offensive player than Karlsson. I'm saying that you're a fool if you think that Schenn doesn't have a chance to develop an offensive game.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Would a Marc-Andre Bergeron vs. Adam Foote thread have 9 pages worth of replies?

So Karlsson will become a career journeyman like Bergeron?

 

[dubey]

Find a post where anyone said Schenn won't progress any more. I think all Sens fans are aware that Schenn's gonna be a great defenseman defensively who puts up near 30 points in his prime.

The whole debate on whether Schenn will ever develop an offensive game implied he wouldn't progress and that what you see with him is what you'll be getting in the future.

 

[Samsquanch]

Notice how I said limit him? As is in not cripple, but limit him. Lmao if you think Luke is going to spend the summer running and come back to the NHL and start leading the rush down the ice. You are delusional.

Limit... what do you mean by that then? So you agree, it isn't a stretch to say he can get 30-40 points? I didn't say Schenn will be an offensive dynamo over the course of one summer. Your trying to put words in my mouth now.

Fine, I'll post this for a third time in this thread:


He already HAS led rushes down the ice. His offensive game is there, it will be interesting to see how it further develops...

And Whose delusional? lol... quote what I said that is totally unrealistic...



I don't think filling out affects your mobility, not if you fill out properly. I mean, look at Evgeny Artyhukin and Dustin Byfuglien. They're monsters, but a great skaters. And these two are 2 of the 5 heavyest players in the league.

I'm not saying that Schenn is a better offensive player than Karlsson. I'm saying that you're a fool if you think that Schenn doesn't have a chance to develop an offensive game.

Thats cool. I can live with that. I just think any leafs fans who believe that offensive game will be anything more than what you see from the premier shut down guys (no not Chara/Pronger )) of the league are sorta foolish themselves.

Be happy with what you have, a great, if not one of the very best up and coming shut down guys.

 

[Milan the God*]

The whole debate on whether Schenn will ever develop an offensive game implied he wouldn't progress and that what you see with him is what you'll be getting in the future.

Sens fans are saying they don't see him as a 40+ point defenseman, but a 30 point defenseman is more realistic.

 

[Samsquanch]

Sens fans are saying they don't see him as a 40+ point defenseman, but a 30 point defenseman is more realistic.

And somehow by us saying that, it implies that he wouldnt be growing at all....

EDIT: And also think of Anton Volchenkov, that is 17pt shut down defencemen, no where in this thread do I compare Schenn to that. That is an individual with no offensive game to speak of, Luke is not this.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Sens fans are saying they don't see him as a 40+ point defenseman, but a 30 point defenseman is more realistic.

His career high in junior was 29 points. I'm not sure I see him becoming an offensive player, but that's not really his game. If Schenn ends up being a physical shutdown top 4 defenceman with little offfensive contribuions there is nothing wrong with that. Lots of players have had great careers who played the same way. Adam Foote, Jason Smith just to name a couple.

 

[General Borschevsky]

Sens fans are saying they don't see him as a 40+ point defenseman, but a 30 point defenseman is more realistic.

I wouldn't be shocked to see him become similar to Kuba offensively, in terms of production. That's a 30-40 point range, so its a very fine line we're arguing about realistically. I don't see Schenn as being a 40+ point defenceman either, without some growth that I haven't seen evidence of yet. Maybe in a career year.

And somehow by us saying that, it implies that he wouldnt be growing at all....

EDIT: And also think of Anton Volchenkov, that is 17pt shut down defencemen, no where in this thread do I compare Schenn to that. That is an individual with no offensive game to speak of, Luke is not this.

It did come across that way though. I certainly thought there were Sens fans arguing that in this thread. There's really not much to argue about then, if you agree he's got more offensive ability than pure defensive D. After that, it's a question of degrees.

 

[Samsquanch]

I wouldn't be shocked to see him become similar to Kuba offensively, in terms of production. That's a 30-40 point range, so its a very fine line we're arguing about realistically. I don't see Schenn as being a 40+ point defenceman either, without some growth that I haven't seen evidence of yet. Maybe in a career year.



It did come across that way though. I certainly thought there were Sens fans arguing that in this thread. There's really not much to argue about then, if you agree he's got more offensive ability than pure defensive D. After that, it's a question of degrees.

Oh I agree with that and never once stated he was finished growing as a player, I just believe where his offense stops growing was vastly overestimated by alot of posters in this thread. So hopefully we can just leave it at that and let this thread die already

 

[bobermay]

His career high in junior was 29 points. I'm not sure I see him becoming an offensive player, but that's not really his game. If Schenn ends up being a physical shutdown top 4 defenceman with little offfensive contribuions there is nothing wrong with that. Lots of players have had great careers who played the same way. Adam Foote, Jason Smith just to name a couple.

But this is where the debate starts IMO. IF Schenn went another year in junior, whose to say that he wouldn't have produced more points? If he went back to the WHL as an overager last season, whose to say he wouldn't dominate the league offensively?

This is where the Staal vs. Schenn starts to get interesting.

Marc Staal:
OHL 2003/2004: 61GP 1G 13A 14P -6+/- 34PIM
OHL 2004/2005: 65GP 6G 20A 26P 22+/- 53PIM
DRAFTED
OHL 2005/2006: 57GP 11G 38A 49P 12+/- 60PIM
OHL 2006/2007: 53GP 5G 29A 34P 7+/- 68PIM
NHL 2007/2008: 80GP 2G 8A 10P 2+/- 42PIM
NHL 2008/2009: 82GP 3G 12A 15P -7+/- 64PIM
NHL 2009/2010: 82GP 8G 19A 27P 11+/- 44PIM

Luke Schenn:
WHL 2006/2007: 72GP 2G 27A 29P -10+/- 139PIM
WHL 2007/2008: 57GP 7G 21A 28P 5+/- 100PIM
DRAFTED
NHL 2008/2009: 70GP 2G 12A 14P -12+/- 71PIM
NHL 2009/2010: 79GP 5G 12A 17P 2+/- 50PIM

Schenn skipped the extra year of junior. Some think that it may effect his offensive development, some think it won't. It will be interesting to see how Schenn's offensive game develops from here.

 

[Samsquanch]

But this is where the debate starts IMO. IF Schenn went another year in junior, whose to say that he wouldn't have produced more points? If he went back to the WHL as an overager last season, whose to say he wouldn't dominate the league offensively?

This is where the Staal vs. Schenn starts to get interesting.

Marc Staal:
OHL 2003/2004: 61GP 1G 13A 14P -6+/- 34PIM
OHL 2004/2005: 65GP 6G 20A 26P 22+/- 53PIM
DRAFTED
OHL 2005/2006: 57GP 11G 38A 49P 12+/- 60PIM
OHL 2006/2007: 53GP 5G 29A 34P 7+/- 68PIM
NHL 2007/2008: 80GP 2G 8A 10P 2+/- 42PIM
NHL 2008/2009: 82GP 3G 12A 15P -7+/- 64PIM
NHL 2009/2010: 82GP 8G 19A 27P 11+/- 44PIM

Luke Schenn:
WHL 2006/2007: 72GP 2G 27A 29P -10+/- 139PIM
WHL 2007/2008: 57GP 7G 21A 28P 5+/- 100PIM
DRAFTED
NHL 2008/2009: 70GP 2G 12A 14P -12+/- 71PIM
NHL 2009/2010: 79GP 5G 12A 17P 2+/- 50PIM

Schenn skipped the extra year of junior. Some think that it may effect his offensive development, some think it won't. It will be interesting to see how Schenn's offensive game develops from here.

It gets alot less interesting though once you actually watch them play and see how much more mobile and poised with the puck Staal is. Stats are irrelevant at this point in their young careers.

 

[bobermay]

It gets alot less interesting though once you actually watch them play and see how much more mobile and poised with the puck Staal is. Stats are irrelevant at this point in their young careers.

Mobility can be improved and developed, as can puck posession and movement with experience. Thats what I'm saying.

When drafted, in Staals 2nd year pro, I don't remember there being that much praise for his mobility and being poised with the puck:
http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/draft-team.cgi?NYR&DraftID=10
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/columnist/woodlief/2005-07-14-red-line-defense_x.htm

From what I recall, Staal's offensive 'potential' (mobility and puck poise)broke out the year AFTER he got drafted.

 

[Samsquanch]

Mobility can be improved and developed, as can puck posession and movement with experience. Thats what I'm saying.

When drafted, in Staals 2nd year pro, I don't remember there being that much praise for his mobility and being poised with the puck:
http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/draft-team.cgi?NYR&DraftID=10
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/columnist/woodlief/2005-07-14-red-line-defense_x.htm

From what I recall, Staal's offensive 'potential' (mobility and puck poise)broke out the year AFTER he got drafted.

You know what man Im not a huge rangers fan so I dont see Staal play that much any more, but I bet if you made a thread asking who has more offensive potential between Schenn and Stall, it would be Staal by a landslide.

And thats still not saying Schenn doest have any potential, but I think if any of the two ever have a chance of sniffing at 40 pts its going to be Staal.

 

[Epictetus]

Pretty stupid thread.

The first couple posts were funny though.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I've got a question for you. Do you think Marc Staal has better offensive potential than Schenn? And why or why not?

Yes, Staal's comfort zone and lateral movements are much better than Schenn's hence allowing him to breeze through the blueline in the offensive zone for the occasional assist.

And Erik Karlsson would be lucky to be as good as Marc-Andre Bergeron. What's the problem with this thread?

You need to get off these boards and actually WATCH hockey. It's getting sad.

For all who said "Karlsson by a mile" I will say Schenn by a mile. So suck it.

Leaf fan getting all emotional.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

You need to get off these boards and actually WATCH hockey. It's getting sad.

I think everyone in this thread needs to get off these boards and go outside for a bit. It is getting sad.

 

[Samsquanch]

I think everyone in this thread needs to get off these boards and go outside for a bit. It is getting sad.

Coming from the guy with 1300 + posts. Thats alot of time in front of the comp my friend. lol who are you to decide how I spend my time nursing my hangover.

Besides I got plenty of fresh air from about 1am-5

 

[Hale The Villain]

You need to get off these boards and actually WATCH hockey. It's getting sad.

Don't feed the troll.

 

[Biggzy*]

Karlsson >>> Schenn