Erik Karlsson vs Luke Schenn

[All Day*]

Schenn by a country mile. Better comparison is Schenn to Foote or Stevens.

 

[Bileur]

You mean that same Karlsson who "can't outscore Schenn"?

Find me a post On these boards of anybody saying that.

Here you go :

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=24717669&postcount=46

Or if you're too lazy to follow the link :

That's the whole point - the people who apparently now prefer Karlsson's "style" are the same ones who preferred Phillips' "style" over Kaberle's.


and what justification is there for Karlsson being "about the same talent wise" as Schenn anyways?

they're the same age.

Schenn is a top-5 pick, Karlsson is a mid-1st round pick.

Schenn is in his 2nd year of being a quality defensive defender with some offense.

Karlsson is a 165lbs midget who is supposed to be offensive, but can't outscore Schenn, and is in way over his head defensively so far.

how are they "about the same talent wise" ?

 

[Cleatus]

Luke Schenn if your team needs a shutdown d-man (I.E. Washington Capitals).

Erik Karlsson if your team needs a puck-mover (I.E Ottawa Senators... Before they had Karlsson).

As for the Sens fans calling Karlsson "elite" or "franchise" caliber, the dude scored 5 goals and 26 points in 60 games. That's good for a rookie, but far from elite.

 

[Asquaredx2]

Luke Schenn if your team needs a shutdown d-man (I.E. Washington Capitals).

Erik Karlsson if your team needs a puck-mover (I.E Ottawa Senators... Before they had Karlsson).

As for the Sens fans calling Karlsson "elite" or "franchise" caliber, the dude scored 5 goals and 26 points in 60 games. That's good for a rookie, but far from elite.

I think a lot of hype comes from the 6 points in 6 games and 25+ minutes per night in the playoffs too.

And I don't think anybody (or, I hope nobody) thinks Karlsson is elite or franchise now.

 

[Cleatus]

I think a lot of hype comes from the 6 points in 6 games and 25+ minutes per night in the playoffs too.

And I don't think anybody (or, I hope nobody) thinks Karlsson is elite or franchise now.

Not sure if anyone said he's franchise caliber now, but even implying that he's going to be a franchise player in the future is stupid. In the end, he's only played 66 games and has 32 career points. Nothing about him screams franchise to me. If anything, he's the next Kaberle, not Doughty (a true franchise defenseman).

 

[Hale The Villain]

Schenn by a country mile. Better comparison is Schenn to Foote or Stevens.

You mean this guy?

Scott Stevens: 1635GP - 196G - 712A - 908P

Luke Schenn if your team needs a shutdown d-man (I.E. Washington Capitals).

Erik Karlsson if your team needs a puck-mover (I.E Ottawa Senators... Before they had Karlsson).

As for the Sens fans calling Karlsson "elite" or "franchise" caliber, the dude scored 5 goals and 26 points in 60 games. That's good for a rookie, but far from elite.

He has an elite breakout pass, but I agree he's not an elite offensive defenseman. Not sure who would call him that this early in his career

Not sure if anyone said he's franchise caliber now, but even implying that he's going to be a franchise player in the future is stupid. In the end, he's only played 66 games and has 32 career points. Nothing about him screams franchise to me. If anything, he's the next Kaberle, not Doughty (a true franchise defenseman).

We're judging stats right? Look who had better stats than in his rookie year than "a true franchise defenseman"

Erik Karlsson
2009-10 Ottawa Senators NHL 60-5-21-26

Drew MF***ing Doughty
2008-09 Los Angeles Kings NHL 81-6-21-27

 

[leafsfuture]

We're judging stats right? Look who had better stats than in his rookie year than "a true franchise defenseman"

Erik Karlsson
2009-10 Ottawa Senators NHL 60-5-21-26

Drew MF***ing Doughty
2008-09 Los Angeles Kings NHL 81-6-21-27

Have you seen Doughty play defence? His defence as a rookie was 10x better than Karlsson. Also keep in mind that Doughty played on the 5th worst team in the league, and had little offensive power after Frolov and Kopitar

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Have you seen Doughty play defence? His defence as a rookie was 10x better than Karlsson. Also keep in mind that Doughty played on the 5th worst team in the league, and had little offensive power after Frolov and Kopitar

He's not saying Karlsson will be Doughty. Its just a rebuttal to the silly notion that Karlsson's stats this year prove he can't be a franchise defenseman.

And 10x better defensively? Holy hyperbole Batman.

 

[Samsquanch]

Here you go :

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=24717669&postcount=46

Or if you're too lazy to follow the link :

Oh how history can catch up with you, especially when everything you're saying is on a message board.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Not sure if anyone said he's franchise caliber now, but even implying that he's going to be a franchise player in the future is stupid. In the end, he's only played 66 games and has 32 career points. Nothing about him screams franchise to me. If anything, he's the next Kaberle, not Doughty (a true franchise defenseman).

Very very bad argument.

 

[Samsquanch]

In the end, he's only played 66 games and has 32 career points. Nothing about him screams franchise to me.

And you're saying that isnt a great pace for a 170lb rookie in his first year in North America?

No one has been saying franchise, for pretty obvious reasons. But the kid is for real and has already become one of the key cogs in the ottawa offense.

 

[Zepphead93]

who's Luke Shenn?

 

[HockeyAustralia]

TERRIBLE comparison.

I have a better point of discussion:

A bowl of pasta vs an umbrella.

 

[Voodoo Child]

We're judging stats right? Look who had better stats than in his rookie year than "a true franchise defenseman"

Erik Karlsson
2009-10 Ottawa Senators NHL 60-5-21-26

Drew MF***ing Doughty
2008-09 Los Angeles Kings NHL 81-6-21-27

Drew Doughty did it a year earlier, is much bigger than Karlsson will ever be and actually plays NHL level defense. Next year if Karlsson is nominated for the Norris and wins a Gold medal (oh...) then I'll say you can compare the two.

Doughty >>>>>>>>>>>>> Karlsson

 

[General Borschevsky]

Here you go :

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=24717669&postcount=46

Or if you're too lazy to follow the link :

I feel stupid defending Zeke, but he obviously meant this season. It was a dumb point, but he wasn't technically wrong.

You mean this guy?

Scott Stevens: 1635GP - 196G - 712A - 908P

It was the Eighties. When people talk about that comparison, they mean his nineties heyday, in a more modern era of hockey. You know, 40 points, shutdown defence, big hits, etc.

 

[russmatuss]

Oh how history can catch up with you, especially when everything you're saying is on a message board.

Everyone can play the search card...

And you're saying that isnt a great pace for a 170lb rookie in his first year in North America?

No one has been saying franchise, for pretty obvious reasons. But the kid is for real and has already become one of the key cogs in the ottawa offense.

Here are some people using the franchise tag, for your own delectation. And all from the same thread, entitled 'Is Karlsson a Franchise Senator?'.

Yes he is. I get scared with his plays sometimes, they're super risky, but you need risk to be successful. Franchise Karlsson!

I think Cowen-Karlsson will become our franchise pairing!!!

Hes a franchise player already....as his offense goes and his puck movement goes so does our team ...didn't you guys watch the games ? when the recorded a point the team was literally undefeated.

The answer to this question is easily: YES.

Erik Karlsson is a franchise player regardless of what team he is on. Players with his hockey sense and skill level don't grow on trees. I think he will end up as important to the Sens as Andrei Markov is to the Habs.

He will never be an all-around monster like Pronger, Lidstrom, etc. but he could be well-rounded like Al MacInnis or Brian Leetch. Worst case, he ends up Kimmo Timonen with more offense.

So people are saying it. Whether they're right or wrong remains to be seen, but they are saying it.

P.s. there are some Sens fans in the same thread who are less keen to jump the gun with the franchise tag, so fair play to them.

 

[Samsquanch]

Everyone can play the search card...



Here are some people using the franchise tag, for your own delectation. And all from the same thread, entitled 'Is Karlsson a Franchise Senator?'.









So people are saying it. Whether they're right or wrong remains to be seen, but they are saying it.

P.s. there are some Sens fans in the same thread who are less keen to jump the gun with the franchise tag, so fair play to them.

im sorry I didnt skim through ten + pages to see if someone uttered franchise. Looks like most of the posts were said halfheartedly

Way to call me out though, not quite the same as actually saying something completely wrong and then denying it, only to be caught in a lie with a previous post, which is what I happened to be referencing.

Good try though

 

[Leafidelity]

Good try though

This thread must really mean alot to you, you've been patrolling this thing more than I work since it came out.

 

[Samsquanch]

This thread must really mean alot to you, you've been patrolling this thing more than I work since it came out.

says the guy with 10 000 + posts seconds after my last post...

 

[Leafidelity]

says the guy with 10 000 + posts seconds after my last post...

Hey man, take a look, I think you've said more than every Leaf fan combined. I may frequent this place alot, but I'm not guarding any threads from objectivity.

 

[Samsquanch]

Hey man, take a look, I think you've said more than every Leaf fan combined. I may frequent this place alot, but I'm not guarding any threads from objectivity.

no you're just trolling in a thread that obviously means nothing to you if your posting about how much it means to me.

lol grow up and maybe get off the message boards sometime, theres a whole world out there. Im discussing something with fellow fans that obviously still has enough steam to still be talked about after this many pages. And despite what you say, Im not having a conversation with myself here.

Edit: And you did see the irony in you saying im patrolling the boards when you replied like a min after I posted right?

 

[Leafidelity]

lol

I'll get out of your thread. Might want to take some of your own advice though.

 

[russmatuss]

im sorry I didnt skim through ten + pages to see if someone uttered franchise. Looks like most of the posts were said halfheartedly

Way to call me out though, not quite the same as actually saying something completely wrong and then denying it, only to be caught in a lie with a previous post, which is what I happened to be referencing.

Good try though

Actually I just searched 'Karlsson franchise player'. Those results were from the first page. Not really that hard.

Instead of getting all pissy about it maybe you could just acknowledge that some people are putting him in the franchise player category already.

 

[Asquaredx2]

Drew Doughty did it a year earlier, is much bigger than Karlsson will ever be and actually plays NHL level defense. Next year if Karlsson is nominated for the Norris and wins a Gold medal (oh...) then I'll say you can compare the two.

Doughty >>>>>>>>>>>>> Karlsson

A few points:
-Doughty did it a year earlier but he's also half a year older than EK. Take from that what you will.
-Doughty, per his LA Kings page, is 6'0" and 211lbs. EK is listed as 5'11" but it looks like he may be taller than that when you look at this picture of him taken with the 5'11" Alfredsson. Even if he's not, that's only an inch off.

As far as the weight thing goes, Karlsson's off-ice mentor in Alfie (208lbs) certainly knows how to pack on the muscle. We're all hoping EK learns from him in that regard, and while it's not a given, I don't think it's impossible that EK gets up to around 205lbs. I think he could at least get to where Duncan Keith is size-wise. So Doughty will be bigger, but not much bigger.
-Doughty plays far better than NHL level defence. He's obviously well beyond Karlsson in that regard, but I'm not really sure where the "Karlsson is bad defensively" idea comes from. He makes some mistakes but he's certainly not like MAB or something. He's a determined defender with pretty good positioning, awesome skating and a good stick who hasn't yet put on the muscle to win all the battles he engages in.

Finally, SensationalSpezza is not saying Karlsson =/> Doughty or anything absurd like that. He's responding to Cleatus' writing off Karlsson as a franchise d-man based on his production.

 

[Voodoo Child]

A few points:
-Doughty did it a year earlier but he's also half a year older than EK. Take from that what you will.
-Doughty, per his LA Kings page, is 6'0" and 211lbs. EK is listed as 5'11" but it looks like he may be taller than that when you look at this picture of him taken with the 5'11" Alfredsson. Even if he's not, that's only an inch off.

As far as the weight thing goes, Karlsson's off-ice mentor in Alfie (208lbs) certainly knows how to pack on the muscle. We're all hoping EK learns from him in that regard, and while it's not a given, I don't think it's impossible that EK gets up to around 205lbs. I think he could at least get to where Duncan Keith is size-wise. So Doughty will be bigger, but not much bigger.
-Doughty plays far better than NHL level defence. He's obviously well beyond Karlsson in that regard, but I'm not really sure where the "Karlsson is bad defensively" idea comes from. He makes some mistakes but he's certainly not like MAB or something. He's a determined defender with pretty good positioning, awesome skating and a good stick who hasn't yet put on the muscle to win all the battles he engages in.

Finally, SensationalSpezza is not saying Karlsson =/> Doughty or anything absurd like that. He's responding to Cleatus' writing off Karlsson as a franchise d-man based on his production.

I have no idea really where Schenn vs. Karlsson became Doughty vs. Karlsson, because I'd rather have Doughty than both of them.

I think Karlsson doesn't become a franchise D by virtue of the fact that PPQB-puckmovers don't generally become franchise D...Dan Boyle? Very good D, not franchise. Mike Green? Very good forward disguised as a D, not franchise.

But in the same way, Schenn doesn't become franchise either because shutdown guys rarely become franchise D.

But both do have the potential to be top-3 at their respective skills in the league, and I hope they do. The Leafs-Senators rivalry has been boring lately. The people who pick either and say 'and it's not even close' are idiots, because depending on what you like or need it is close.

It's the hybrid types, like Pronger, Chara, Lidstrom and Weber that are franchise guys.

Out of that draft, it looks like only Myers and Doughty (both hybrids) will be franchise guys. Schenn, Karlsson, Bogosian and maybe Pietrangelo will be on the tier below, while Del Zotto, Carlson, Sbisa and Wiercioch will be on the tier just below that.