Erik Karlsson vs Luke Schenn

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Hey to all the leafs fans in here who believe defense is harder to teach than offense please check out the new thread on the prospect board so we can get some other fans opinions on this.

Im tired of arguing with you all myself, I feel like Im beating my head against a wall here.

I gotta say, taking up a challenge of like 10 Leaf fans on your own is outstanding props bro. Especially for some fans who think he's got the potential to get 40 points LOL.

 

[bobermay]

I gotta say, taking up a challenge of like 10 Leaf fans on your own is outstanding props bro. Especially for some fans who think he's got the potential to get 40 points LOL.

I've got a question for you. Do you think Marc Staal has better offensive potential than Schenn? And why or why not?

 

[Slapshot_11]

Easily Erik Karlsson

 

[Samsquanch]

I've got a question for you. Do you think Marc Staal has better offensive potential than Schenn? And why or why not?

Honest to god Marc Staal will never be an offensive whiz its totally laughable to think hes going to be a high scoring Dman.

I watched Marc many, many games in Sudbury, and while hes a very dominant dman, its not for his puck control. Hes a very poised dman, and most certainly doesnt handle the puck like a live grenade, but LOL if you think he'll be a crafty 1st unit PPQB at any point in is career. He'll be a solid poised shut down guy much like Chris Phillips.

So in saying that if, you believe Schenn has a similar ceiling offensively I dont know how many opinions you'll changing. Id still even say Staal's O potential is greater then Schenn's, so thats not really saying much for old Luke.

 

[leafsfuture]

Honest to god Marc Staal will never be an offensive whiz its totally laughable to think hes going to be a high scoring Dman.

I watched Marc many, many games in Sudbury, and while hes a very dominant dman, its not for his puck control. Hes a very poised dman, and most certainly doesnt handle the puck like a live grenade, but LOL if you think he'll be a crafty 1st unit PPQB at any point in is career. He'll be a solid poised shut down guy much like Chris Phillips.

So in saying that if, you believe Schenn has a similar ceiling offensively I dont know how many opinions you'll changing. Id still even say Staal's O potential is greater then Schenn's, so thats not really saying much for old Luke.

Staal is 23, and last season he had more points than Philips ever had in 1 season. To say he will top out at Philips offensively is wrong. Staal has also improved mightily every season, and could easily top out at 40 points.

I have a question. Why do you always associate the terms offensive defensemen and PPQB together. I would cal Chris Pronger an offensive defenseman, but he is certainly not a PPQB. Niether is Shea Weber, or Brian McCabe, or Dion Phaneuf.

As for comparing Staal and Schenns offensive stats. In Staals 2nd season, when he was 22, he had 3 goals and 15 pts. In Schenns 2nd season, when he was 20, he had 5 goals and 17 points.

So not only has Schenn outproduced Staal in their rookie and sophmore seasons, he also started playing in the NHL as an 18 year old. Staal was 20

 

[bobermay]

Honest to god Marc Staal will never be an offensive whiz its totally laughable to think hes going to be a high scoring Dman.

I watched Marc many, many games in Sudbury, and while hes a very dominant dman, its not for his puck control. Hes a very poised dman, and most certainly doesnt handle the puck like a live grenade, but LOL if you think he'll be a crafty 1st unit PPQB at any point in is career. He'll be a solid poised shut down guy much like Chris Phillips.

So in saying that if, you believe Schenn has a similar ceiling offensively I dont know how many opinions you'll changing. Id still even say Staal's O potential is greater then Schenn's, so thats not really saying much for old Luke.

Who mentioned anybody being an offensive wiz or being a high scoring defensman? Certainly not me. My question was asking who he thought had more offensive potential.

NOBODY said he'll be a #1 crafty PPQB, but I think he has more offensive potential than Phillips.

You look at Staals and Schenn's first years in junior, its pretty similar. Difference is Staal spent a couple of extra years in junior. So far, Schenn's first two season's look extremely similar to Staals. Plus Schenn brings the extra physical element.

Staal is 23, and last season he had more points than Philips ever had in 1 season. To say he will top out at Philips offensively is wrong. Staal has also improved mightily every season, and could easily top out at 40 points.

I have a question. Why do you always associate the terms offensive defensemen and PPQB together. I would cal Chris Pronger an offensive defenseman, but he is certainly not a PPQB. Niether is Shea Weber, or Brian McCabe, or Dion Phaneuf.

As for comparing Staal and Schenns offensive stats. In Staals 2nd season, when he was 22, he had 3 goals and 15 pts. In Schenns 2nd season, when he was 20, he had 5 goals and 17 points.

So not only has Schenn outproduced Staal in their rookie and sophmore seasons, he also started playing in the NHL as an 18 year old. Staal was 20

Exactly. My point of bringing Staal up, is that people think Staal has offensive potential, but people completely write Schenn off.

 

[Samsquanch]

Staal is 23, and last season he had more points than Philips ever had in 1 season. To say he will top out at Philips offensively is wrong. Staal has also improved mightily every season, and could easily top out at 40 points.

I have a question. Why do you always associate the terms offensive defensemen and PPQB together. I would cal Chris Pronger an offensive defenseman, but he is certainly not a PPQB. Niether is Shea Weber, or Brian McCabe, or Dion Phaneuf.

As for comparing Staal and Schenns offensive stats. In Staals 2nd season, when he was 22, he had 3 goals and 15 pts. In Schenns 2nd season, when he was 20, he had 5 goals and 17 points.

So not only has Schenn outproduced Staal in their rookie and sophmore seasons, he also started playing in the NHL as an 18 year old. Staal was 20

All have an amazing shot from the point, does Luke Schenn? Thats why they get points and play the PP. And yes their offensive instincts are far greater than Luke's, your delusional if you think Schenn is on that level of offence.

And I agree Staal is very dominant Dman who may end up posting 35+ points in his prime, the thing he has over Schenn is his mobility for a big guy. Schenn is a poor skater, and that will limit him forever offensively.

 

[TheSilencer]

To the people who are comparing Marc Staal vs Schenn..

Yes their stats might be similar for the first 2 years, BUT, have you guys seen Marc Staal play? He's much more mobile than Luke Schenn and gets into the offensive zone much more comfortably than Schenn. Again, stats are not the best way to evaluate a defenseman, you gotta actually watch them play. Schenn doesn't have the mobility/comfort level with the puck as Marc Staal.

 

[Samsquanch]

To the people who are comparing Marc Staal vs Schenn..

Yes their stats might be similar for the first 2 years, BUT, have you guys seen Marc Staal play? He's much more mobile than Luke Schenn and gets into the offensive zone much more comfortably than Schenn. Again, stats are not the best way to evaluate a defenseman, you gotta actually watch them play. Schenn doesn't have the mobility/comfort level with the puck as Marc Staal.

Thats why its so hard arguing hockey on a message board. The people you are arguing with generally havent seen much of the players they are making opinions on.

They look at stats and figure hmmm pts/game + age + draft position = potential. There is so much more to it than stats, especially for young dmen. Stats are basically irrelevant at this point in their careers and the only way you can truly gauge a players "offensive potential" is by watching them play/learn/grow.

Ive seen alot of EK and Schenn this year, and if Luke is showing offensive potential, EK is the next coming of Bobby Orr.

 

[General Borschevsky]

Marc Staal isn't exactly a secret around the league. We've all seen what he can do. I don't buy that he has any more offensive potential than Luke Schenn, but they're at different points in their development, so whether Luke continues to develop similarly is hard to say. Neither are limited offensively like Komisarek, both of them can move the puck and play an offensive game.

 

[bobermay]

Marc Staal isn't exactly a secret around the league. We've all seen what he can do. I don't buy that he has any more offensive potential than Luke Schenn, but they're at different points in their development, so whether Luke continues to develop similarly is hard to say. Neither are limited offensively like Komisarek, both of them can move the puck and play an offensive game.

Exactly, this is what I'm saying.

King Sambo seems to have an idea that mobility and offensive games can't be improved. Meanwhile, watching Luke over the last two season, there is no denying his skating, mobility, shot, puck movement and total offensive game has improved leaps and bounds. He still has a ways to go, but to say he's limited to a Defensive defencman is just retarted IMO.

 

[Samsquanch]

Just an FYI guys, its not just me that thinks Schenn will be limited to a defensive role throughout his career....

 

[Samsquanch]

Exactly, this is what I'm saying.

King Sambo seems to have an idea that mobility and offensive games can't be improved. Meanwhile, watching Luke over the last two season, there is no denying his skating, mobility, shot, puck movement and total offensive game has improved leaps and bounds. He still has a ways to go, but to say he's limited to a Defensive defencman is just retarted IMO.

And no where did I say that. Im saying its difficult/nigh impossible to go from where Luke Schenn is to an offensive stud.

 

[bobermay]

And no where did I say that. Im saying its difficult/nigh impossible to go from where Luke Schenn is to an offensive stud.

Really?:

Schenn is a poor skater, and that will limit him forever offensively.

Mobility... skating. Not much of a differense.

No one is saying that he'll be an offensive stud. We're saying he's not limited to a defensive defense man role. Many Schenn fans beleive that he has 30-40 point potential.

 

[Milan the God*]

No one is saying that he'll be an offensive stud. We're saying he's not limited to a defensive defense man role. Many Schenn fans beleive that he has 30-40 point potential.

And everyone else thinks his offensive potential is around 25-30 points. That's not bad for a defenseman who focuses on mostly defense, but I too believe that Schenn's lack of foot speed will hurt him.

 

[dubey]

Would a Marc-Andre Bergeron vs. Adam Foote thread have 9 pages worth of replies?

 

[R S]

Would a Marc-Andre Bergeron vs. Adam Foote thread have 9 pages worth of replies?

Luke Schenn would be lucky to have Adam Foote's career.

 

[dubey]

Luke Schenn would be lucky to have Adam Foote's career.

And Erik Karlsson would be lucky to be as good as Marc-Andre Bergeron. What's the problem with this thread?

 

[Brozak]

For all who said "Karlsson by a mile" I will say Schenn by a mile. So suck it.

 

[Samsquanch]

Really?:


Mobility... skating. Not much of a differense.

No one is saying that he'll be an offensive stud. We're saying he's not limited to a defensive defense man role. Many Schenn fans beleive that he has 30-40 point potential.

Notice how I said limit him? As is in not cripple, but limit him. Lmao if you think Luke is going to spend the summer running and come back to the NHL and start leading the rush down the ice. You are delusional.

Thats not Lukes game. Not to mention hes still growing, and putting on weight while he fills out. Hes going to have to do everything in his power to keep the mobility he has until hes finished filling out and can adjust to his weight.

Schenn can probably pass the puck well, Im not trying to take that away from him. But he wont ever be a mobile 2-way force, thats not in the cards for him, deal with it.

 

[The Management]

Exactly, this is what I'm saying.

King Sambo seems to have an idea that mobility and offensive games can't be improved. Meanwhile, watching Luke over the last two season, there is no denying his skating, mobility, shot, puck movement and total offensive game has improved leaps and bounds. He still has a ways to go, but to say he's limited to a Defensive defencman is just retarted IMO.

Impossible. Didn't you get the memo? Our prospects are all one-dimensional and completely incapable of growth or improvement.

Ive seen alot of EK and Schenn this year, and if Luke is showing offensive potential, EK is the next coming of Bobby Orr.

Well, Karlsson is a "franchise defenceman" that will "astonish" the league. Sounds like there are some great expectations for this kid.

You're making the same mistake here that you made in your poll. There, the offensive defenseman only had "holes" in his defensive game; the defensive defenseman, meanwhile, has shown no flair offensively? Not only is that a great way to bias an opinion poll [not that I suspect the results would have been any different concerning the question], but it's an incredibly narrow-minded view to take of a young player like Luke Schenn. His skating is a valid issue, but he isn't some one-dimensional automaton that just chips and hacks at every loose puck - as grabo84 said, he isn't Mike Komisarek.

His numbers have been respectable for a defenseman of his ilk, and there's no reason to believe he won't improve with experience. In fact, to adopt the logic you seem so eager to bandy about, if you've actually watched the kid play, you could tell he has some untapped two-way potential. He isn't too shabby with the puck; he has a great outlet pass and reads the play very well. That comes from the fact that he was touted as a positionally sound hockey player. His shot isn't particularly dangerous, but he can put it on net. He won't overplay the puck or take many offensive gambles, but that was regarded as a considerable strength of his on draft day. None of this means he will be some offensive juggernaut, but he could easily be a solid two-way guy at the peak of his career.

Nobody thinks Schenn will ever approach the likes of what Karlsson or Subban should be able to accomplish offensively, but to suggest he has shown NO potential to improve in that department to date is absolutely nonsensical. Yes, offense is harder to teach. Improved mobility, however, his one greatest knock, is a conditioning issue that Luke should be able to work on.

 

[Samsquanch]

Would a Marc-Andre Bergeron vs. Adam Foote thread have 9 pages worth of replies?

And Erik Karlsson would be lucky to be as good as Marc-Andre Bergeron. What's the problem with this thread?

The maturity level of leafs fans never cease to amaze me.

 

[bobermay]

And everyone else thinks his offensive potential is around 25-30 points. That's not bad for a defenseman who focuses on mostly defense, but I too believe that Schenn's lack of foot speed will hurt him.

Just like the definition of skill, people have different definitions of potential. Its pretty ambiguous.

I mean, as a 20 year old, did anybody think that Mike Greene had potential to get back to back 70+ seasons.

When he was 20, did anybody expect Duncan Keith to be a 69 point Norris Trophy Winner?

I'm not saying Schenn will reach his 40 point potential, but I do think its there.... its more likely he'll reach 20-30, but its not a stretch to say he has 40 point potential.

 

[dubey]

The maturity level of leafs fans never cease to amaze me.

Bergeron had as many points as Karlsson in 6 less games in his rookie season. They both play a similar game and are both pretty much the same size.

Problem?

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

I think Karlsson's got the potential to become an elite powerplay quarterback like Dan Boyle or Andrei Markov.

Schenn will probably never put up great numbers offensively, but he'll still be a big physical defensive defenseman, probably like Regehr.