Confirmed with Link: [EDM/DET] Yamamoto and Kostin for Future Considerations

joestevens29

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He's also kind of a celebrity in Vegreville where my dad grew up.
I remember before he got drafted it seemed everyone(knew quite a few people went to school with him) was his best friend. I was like how the hell is everyone good friends with him.

Oddly enough turns out he was good friends with a lot of people.
 
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Fourier

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Its a strange story too as most contending teams that suddenly have to pare down their roster because they've drastically overspent are coming off a cup win. We haven't won shit, we've never won more than 8 playoff games (half the amount of a cup win) and we're fireselling talent we can't afford. Ironically one we signed just last season.

Hard pressed to think the Oilers will be better next season while having to drop players, cap, and having nothing to spend on help. remembering that the team was essentially short players much of the season due to cap constraints.

So that we're going to need to be riding some rooks and ELC's that our coaching staff are reluctant to even play. What a mess.
The starting line-up is unquestionably better than last year simply because of Ekholm. Add in growth from Bouchard and even without any changes the defense is much better.

Here was the Oiler's line-up for game 1 last year.

Kane McDavid Puljujarvi
Holloway Draisaitl Hyman
McLeod Nuge Ryan
Shore Malone

Nurse Ceci
Kulak Barrie
Murray Bouchard
 
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belair

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Just some bizarre comments from Holland. Bemoaning the lack of contract space to keep players yet he signed guys like Campbell, Yama, etc to overpays to set up his own situation that he's complaining about. Also states that he likes Yama, felt that he was improving, the thought process is convuluted.


At least Yzerman knows what Kostin is. One of the GM's does. They have all kinds of uses for Kostin and plan to use him in bigger roles. "we haven't figured out yet where Yama fits" lol, complete opposite views.

Of course Detroit see Kostin as the value, and Yama the contract they had to add in order to obtain Kostin. Kostin will sign in Detroit and the GM is telling him that he'll get his minutes.
The contracts were earned through previous performance. Yamamoto's contract was signed out of a 20-20-40 season. That's in line with the $3.1m extension that he signed. Campbell is in the same boat. He was trending towards becoming a quality starter.

The cap has increased $1m a year since COVID. If there was more flexibility, I don't think that there's as much of a push to shed these contacts. You can like a young player's potential to improve while also identifying that their contract is an underperforming.
 

joestevens29

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The contracts were earned through previous performance. Yamamoto's contract was signed out of a 20-20-40 season. That's in line with the $3.1m extension that he signed. Campbell is in the same boat. He was trending towards becoming a quality starter.

The cap has increased $1m a year since COVID. If there was more flexibility, I don't think that there's as much of a push to shed these contacts. You can like a young player's potential to improve while also identifying that their contract is an underperforming.
Think it's went up what 2mil since he got here? All while still adding some pretty good players in Kane/Hyman/Ekholm. While retaining RNH at a reasonable contract.
 
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Drivesaitl

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The contracts were earned through previous performance. Yamamoto's contract was signed out of a 20-20-40 season. That's in line with the $3.1m extension that he signed. Campbell is in the same boat. He was trending towards becoming a quality starter.

The cap has increased $1m a year since COVID. If there was more flexibility, I don't think that there's as much of a push to shed these contacts. You can like a young player's potential to improve while also identifying that their contract is an underperforming.
The Yams season was outlier. Even a punter like me knew it was. He'll never hit 20 again. The likelihood with him is he was never a legit topsix player and its hard to fit him in and especially at this contract price as its too much for bottomsix.

In anycase Yams didn't earn the contract. He produced the bare minimum one would expect being tied to superstars on topsix lines all the time.

Didn't know as much about Campbell because really I don't find watching the Leafs to be any great time.
 
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Drivesaitl

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The starting line-up is unquestionably better than last year simply because of Ekholm. Add in growth from Bouchard and even without any changes the defense is much better.

Here was the Oiler's line-up for game 1 last year.

Kane McDavid Puljujarvi
Holloway Draisaitl Hyman
McLeod Nuge Ryan
Shore Malone

Nurse Ceci
Kulak Barrie
Murray Bouchard
Thats one way to look at it but I was looking at the playoff lineup which included Kostin.

With the team so capstrung that we're simply dropping players and paring roster its hard to think a team that had to play short players many nights due to cap constraints will be in better position this season.

But we also had career years out of several players on the roster last season and not sure if all that gets repeated. Not going out on a limb saying there will be appreciable fallback in points of several players. Like I would bet on it.

In anycase "better" even if so doesn't make me feel that much. We still don't have goaltending, we still can't fill out a topsix with actual players that belong there. Now we're lacking forward depth again. I can see another year where we are so cap strapped we can't even make a move.
 
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belair

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The Yams season was outlier. Even a punter like me knew it was. He'll never hit 20 again. The likelihood with him is he was never a legit topsix player and its hard to fit him in and especially at this contract price as its too much for bottomsix.

In anycase Yams didn't earn the contract. He produced the bare minimum one would expect being tied to superstars on topsix lines all the time.

Didn't know as much about Campbell because really I don't find watching the Leafs to be any great time.
It may have been, but that doesn't change the valuation of the contract. It was based on that production. It happened.

You're critiquing the contract based on what happened after he signed it. Contracts are signed because of what happened before them.
 

Fourier

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Think it's went up what 2mil since he got here? All while still adding some pretty good players in Kane/Hyman/Ekholm. While retaining RNH at a reasonable contract.
The cap going up by only $2M was very unfortunate for the Oilers. But in the end it may still turn out to be a bit of a blessing going forward. Holland was forced to work within very tight constraints. He has not really proven to be the best cap manager so this might be a good thing with pending new deals for McDavid and Leon.

Right now aside from Campbell the Oilers have no underperforming contracts that they need to shed. Nurse is certainly over paid but probably by no more than $1.5M and if the cap takes off he will be fine. The only real ??? going forwards is Bouchard. Otherwise he has his key contracts in place.

Thats one way to look at it but I was looking at the playoff lineup which included Kostin.

With the team so capstrung that we're simply dropping players and paring roster its hard to think a team that had to play short players many nights due to cap constraints will be in better position this season.

But we also had career years out of several players on the roster last season and not sure if all that gets repeated. Not going out on a limb saying there will be appreciable fallback in points of several players. Like I would bet on it.
The playoff line-up could be very different next spring than it is now.

I really like Kostin but it's hard to say he was a big difference maker in the playoffs given his usage. I think they should have used him more but if they have room at the deadline they could well make another Ekholm level addition which would far more than compensate for the loss of Kostin.

And sure there could be a fall back in points for some. I don't expect Nuge to hit 100 or really even close. But Kane should also be healthy and his contributions should help make up part of any decline.
 

Drivesaitl

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It may have been, but that doesn't change the valuation of the contract. It was based on that production. It happened.

You're critiquing the contract based on what happened after he signed it. Contracts are signed because of what happened before them.
Contracts are signed because managers are duped into thinking the players are worth it. Simple as that. Paying 6.2M for Yama was nuts and thats been confirmed. Not revisionist either, I was saying so at the time. There was no reason to sign that contract. Presumably Yams could have been moved at some point for an asset, but even that is iffy. Imagine signing a contract a year ago and having to get rid of it a year later. Imagine no team in the league willing to take on that contract without appreciably sweetening the pot. That is piss poor management in that particular instance.
 
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Drivesaitl

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The cap going up by only $2M was very unfortunate for the Oilers. But in the end it may still turn out to be a bit of a blessing going forward. Holland was forced to work within very tight constraints. He has not really proven to be the best cap manager so this might be a good thing with pending new deals for McDavid and Leon.

Right now aside from Campbell the Oilers have no underperforming contracts that they need to shed. Nurse is certainly over paid but probably by no more than $1.5M and if the cap takes off he will be fine. The only real ??? going forwards is Bouchard. Otherwise he has his key contracts in place.


The playoff line-up could be very different next spring than it is now.

I really like Kostin but it's hard to say he was a big difference maker in the playoffs given his usage. I think they should have used him more but if they have room at the deadline they could well make another Ekholm level addition which would far more than compensate for the loss of Kostin.

And sure there could be a fall back in points for some. I don't expect Nuge to hit 100 or really even close. But Kane should also be healthy and his contributions should help make up part of any decline.
Kane probably never hits the heights of his first season here. WE don't know either that the nerve and feeling in hand and the coordination ever goes back to where it was. That was a very serious injury. More than likely that he's not as sharp firing or handling the puck again. Hyman will never repeat the season he had. No way. Nuge, yeah, no where close. Then we tick off yet another year of McD and Drai getting older and Drai probably already at peak.

League already decided they won't give us many PP"s in playoffs. What happens if that gets curtailed in regular season? The team is far too PP dependent and had an unsustainable run at that. Its another aspect that will be impossible to match. We won't be getting the PP we had last year. Not the same results.

Keeping in mind we've had the benefit of no key injuries other than Kane. We've actually had a lot of fortune to have that healthy a season and playoffs. That doesn't always happen.
 
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Faelko

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Yet the Oilers have, and have had several players at much higher sticker price that have accomplished far less, particularly in playoffs. Many of the teams supposed leaders, who ARE in topsix and who are extremely well paid contributed no shows in the playoffs while Kostin somehow scored 3 EV goals and had dominating shifts albeit far too few of them. Theres a longlist of top players on this team that were putrid in the playoffs but we're paring one of the cheapest contracts on the team, and that would still be one of the cheapest contracts on the team.

Should we count the list of playoff no shows that make a lot of money here?
Dont get me wrong, this is all Hollands fault for overpaying Nurse, Campbell, Yams, etc. it’s a mess of his own doing but we can’t just unring the bell here and pretend those cap hits didn’t exist. It’s just simply math and it’s working against us unfortunately.

The Oilers will continue to be a top heavy team with no room to overpay for 4th liners no matter how much we like them, and I really did like Kostin, it’s just the reality of the situation.
 
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bucks_oil

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But he didn't get rid of him for nothing. He gave up a 4th line player that contributed more than he was being paid.
Holland now needs to once again replace him. If say much greater chance we get an Archibald than a kostin.

... was being paid = past tense.

There are plenty of vets that can be signed for the $2M that Kostin wants and will actually play both ends of the ice. I liked Kostin's rugged "style" too as a fan, but I want my GM to sign guys that get "results"
 

Fourier

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Kane probably never hits the heights of his first season here. WE don't know either that the nerve and feeling in hand and the coordination ever goes back to where it was. That was a very serious injury. More than likely that he's not as sharp firing or handling the puck again. Hyman will never repeat the season he had. No way. Nuge, yeah, no where close. Then we tick off yet another year of McD and Drai getting older and Drai probably already at peak.

Keeping in mind we've had the benefit of no key injuries other than Kane. We've actually had a lot of fortune to have that healthy a season and playoffs. That doesn't always happen.
They are certainly better than the 2021-22 team as well. Even with regression this team should be a near lock for a top 2-3 finish in the Pacific unless McDavid or Leon are out for a long period.

There is still time for them to add depth pieces. If they get Brown and he is healthy he would be a big plus. He can play up and down the line-up and is a definite upgrade on last year's version of Yamamoto. And ACL injury is concerning but his game was never built on speed.

I also think that they may add a decent name or two on bargain deals because of the potential of the team to go long into the playoffs.
 

ManofSteel55

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Just some bizarre comments from Holland. Bemoaning the lack of contract space to keep players yet he signed guys like Campbell, Yama, etc to overpays to set up his own situation that he's complaining about. Also states that he likes Yama, felt that he was improving, the thought process is convuluted.


At least Yzerman knows what Kostin is. One of the GM's does. They have all kinds of uses for Kostin and plan to use him in bigger roles. "we haven't figured out yet where Yama fits" lol, complete opposite views.

Of course Detroit see Kostin as the value, and Yama the contract they had to add in order to obtain Kostin. Kostin will sign in Detroit and the GM is telling him that he'll get his minutes.
Detroit is paper thin, of course they can find room for Kostin. I was saying it for days before the trade, and I'll stand by this statement. On Edmonton, he's a 4th liner. On lesser teams, he might be a middle sixer, but on Edmonton, he was a 4th liner unless he earned a spot in the top six, as our 3rd line was our energy/shut down guy line, and he wasn't a fit there. I'd love it if we manage to find a way to get him back, as long as its in the bottom line role, until he earns a spot on the 2nd line.

But he didn't get rid of him for nothing. He gave up a 4th line player that contributed more than he was being paid.
Holland now needs to once again replace him. If say much greater chance we get an Archibald than a kostin.
Archibald was a more reliable player for us than Kostin. He wasn't as flashy, and he was small, but he could kill penalties and be used in key situations, until COVID anyway.
 

ManofSteel55

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Ok CBA nerds, I used to know this stuff, but what are the rules around signing guys who were just bought out? I know that you can't sign a guy if you bought him out (ie, Detroit can't re-sign Yamamoto), but theoretically, could we re-sign Yamamoto to a 1 year, 850K deal within the CBA, or would it be considered circumventing the cap due to some weird clause. Not sure if I want to go down that road, but if its allowed, it wouldn't shock me if we did it.
 
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Oilers

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Ok CBA nerds, I used to know this stuff, but what are the rules around signing guys who were just bought out? I know that you can't sign a guy if you bought him out (ie, Detroit can't re-sign Yamamoto), but theoretically, could we re-sign Yamamoto to a 1 year, 850K deal within the CBA, or would it be considered circumventing the cap due to some weird clause. Not sure if I want to go down that road, but if its allowed, it wouldn't shock me if we did it.
I guess Kostin was the sweetner in that deal to Detroit.

this would be a clever move!
 

The Nuge

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Ok CBA nerds, I used to know this stuff, but what are the rules around signing guys who were just bought out? I know that you can't sign a guy if you bought him out (ie, Detroit can't re-sign Yamamoto), but theoretically, could we re-sign Yamamoto to a 1 year, 850K deal within the CBA, or would it be considered circumventing the cap due to some weird clause. Not sure if I want to go down that road, but if its allowed, it wouldn't shock me if we did it.

The caps did it back in 2018 with Orpik. Iirc, it’s all about intent, so if we’re trading him with the purpose of clearing cap and they happen to buy him out, it’s fine. If we’re trading him to them for them to buy him out and us sign him to a pre agreed extension, it’s not.

Considering how much the guys in the room love Yamo, and how Leon always wants to play with him, it’s a no brainer imo.


Can we sign Yammo for 1 mill now? He'd make 4 this year.

He’s only making 433k from Detroit this year. It’s a 1/3rd buyout because of his age
 

ManofSteel55

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I guess Kostin was the sweetner in that deal to Detroit.

this would be a clever move!
It would be clever
The caps did it back in 2018 with Orpik. Iirc, it’s all about intent, so if we’re trading him with the purpose of clearing cap and they happen to buy him out, it’s fine. If we’re trading him to them for them to buy him out and us sign him to a pre agreed extension, it’s not.

Considering how much the guys in the room love Yamo, and how Leon always wants to play with him, it’s a no brainer imo.




He’s only making 433k from Detroit this year. It’s a 1/3rd buyout because of his age
Maybe that's a good reason not to bring him back, ha ha. If they're planning to have Kane, Hyman, Brown and one of Nuge or Drai (the other being 2C) as the top six wingers, bringing Yams back could make it tricky if Drai really wants Yams on his line.
 
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The Nuge

Some say…
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It would be clever

Maybe that's a good reason not to bring him back, ha ha. If they're planning to have Kane, Hyman, Brown and one of Nuge or Drai (the other being 2C) as the top six wingers, bringing Yams back could make it tricky if Drai really wants Yams on his line.

There’s always injuries and different chemistry though. If you bring in Brown, you can drop Nuge and Hyman down, and run 3 scoring lines, or stack the top 6 and have Yamo step in when someone inevitably goes down.

Eg

Kane - McDavid - Brown
McLeod - Drai - Yamo
Hyman - Nuge - Foegele

Or

Kane - McDavid - Brown
Nuge - Drai - Hyman
Foegele - McLeod - Yamo
 

The Nuge

Some say…
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I don't want Yamo back. He's not a top 6 forward and he's too small to be a bottom 6 checking guy. Kid gets pushed around when playing a bottom six role and can't score when he plays with our big guns

I don’t think anyone will argue he didn’t struggle last year (largely due to injuries), but he had 20 goals and 41 points a year prior. That’s 2nd line production, and he’s a massive bargain if we can get him closer to a million.
 

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