Confirmed with Link: [EDM/BUF] McLeod + Tullio for Matt Savoie

[Spawn]

As much as I love Rico and Perry, we are a significantly slower team with Foegele and Clouder gone. A lot of 'team speed' was lost.

We are in danger of being 'old and slow'.

I agree. At least in the bottom 6. Our top 6 is more than fast enough and our D-core as a whole can skate pretty well.

Holloway will bring some elite speed to the bottom 6, but outside of him it’s a lot of slower guys. Maybe Savoie can steal a spot out of camp with a strong showing. A 3rd line of:

Holloway-Henrique-Savoie could bring a lot of pace even if Henrique is on the slower side.

 

[Sheikyerbouti]

I just got back from a vacation and saw this trade. I reread it a few times because it didn't seem real. lol - Jackson is killing it. McLeod has become a pretty good defensive C who is soft, or an
OK winger who can't play on the wall. Getting someone who might play with one of McDrai on an ELC is such a smart bet it doesn't feel like the Oilers.

But reading this thread I think people are underestimating Tulio, he is full throttle gamer with pro habits and comes from a hockey family, the Sabres probably loved him and felt they were getting two players. That is why the trade feels lopsided, it will be more of a Kesselring throw in imo

Also Philp is coming for the 4C gig, anyone wondering about 4C is in for a surprise imo. Had he not taken a year off he would already be in that spot.

 

[Tarus]

Holloway will play PK 100% guaranteed. He's finally looking like himself, but the only consistency was hits and blocked shots, the other parts of his game were coming and going.

He's not ready for a role where he is expected to produce points, and the 4rth line will let him grow the parts of his game that he needs to develop into a top six option. Even when he was flying, he go would stretches where he was awful on the wall, 4rth line + PK is a perfect development path next year imo

Maybe the coaching staff apprentices him on the PK early on, but I wouldn't bet on it.

We'll see though. It's Knoblauch's first training camp, and I suspect they want to hit the ground running and avoid a lot of regular season drama and take a real run a the division title(aka, home ice advantage in the playoffs). Might not be much motivation to develop younger guys in new roles.

 

[Fourier]

I actually went and looked at the skating stats to see if my theory held water or not, and it doesn't. Arvidsson shows well in both categories, roughly the equivalent of Foegele. But the gap between McLeod and Skinner is vast. So I recant my position that it is only a slight downgrade in speed with Arvid/Skinner in and Foegs/McLeod out. Arvid is roughly Foegs, but Skinner is a big step down from McLeod.

My Holloway/Broberg vs <winger>/VD is more than true though. In fact, Holloway almost replaces McLeod on further look.

So yes, there is a slight overall team speed downgrade, but I think the finishing ability upgrade from Arvid/Skinner in and Foegs/McLeod out more than makes up for it in total value.



Broberg is a COMICALLY better skater than VD. Broberg is likely our 2nd best skater on the entire team right now.

Skinner has never been fast but he is still a very good skater in a technical sense. He was a competitive figure skater as a kid. I saw Skinner a lot in juniors and his agility was very useful in helping him not only avoid getting hit but also in finding space to get his shot off.

Skinner tends to shot and score from closer in than most. Being agile is a useful skill if you are a sniper who like to play close to the net.

Gretzky for example was faster than often he is given credit for. But his agility was one of his great strengths. I think it is an often under appreciated aspect of his game.

 

[Fourier]

I don’t really like the deal from a hockey standpoint. Our window is now. But from a salary cap standpoint it makes sense.

In terms of now, this is really McLeod or one of Skinner/Arvidsson. Just because of the cap implications from signing those two someone had to go. The other alternatives were Kulak, Ceci and Kane. This would have been even more extreme next year when McLeod would have been eligible for arbitration. Moreover, the deal was not McLeod for picks which would have been little direct use for years aside from trade chips. Savoie is potentially able to play some this year and could with luck be a full time Oiler in 2025-2026. He could also be a very good trade chip at the deadline if he performs well in the AHL.

 

[McDNicks17]

As much as I love Rico and Perry, we are a significantly slower team with Foegele and Clouder gone. A lot of 'team speed' was lost.

We are in danger of being 'old and slow'.

I'd say there's speed and functional speed.

When the broadcasters were gushing over the Oilers team speed in the Finals, they keyed in on Brown, Janmark and Holloway. Guys that use their speed to close on guys, be a pain in the ass and cause turnovers. There was no mention of McLeod because skating really fast to stand 10 feet away from someone and waving your stick doesn't really do anything.

They added a similar player to those guys in Arvidsson which trickles down another plus skater to the third line whether that's a healthy Kane or Holloway. They're still a really fast team everywhere except #3C and the old folks home at #4RW, but I'd say there's a good chance that both Perry and Ryan take a decent bit of time off(and Ryan could even head to Bako).

 

[McJadeddog]

Skinner has never been fast but he is still a very good skater in a technical sense. He was a competitive figure skater as a kid. I saw Skinner a lot in juniors and his agility was very useful in helping him not only avoid getting hit but also in finding space to get his shot off.

Skinner tends to shot and score from closer in than most. Being agile is a useful skill if you are a sniper who like to play close to the net.

Gretzky for example was faster than often he is given credit for. But his agility was one of his great strengths. I think it is an often under appreciated aspect of his game.

Yeah those speed stats obviously can't tell you about agility and edge work, which Skinner is more famous for. As far as pure speed though, we definitely are taking a step back at forward this year, but a big step ahead on D. While I would obviously prefer to have every player skate like McDavid, I'll take a guy that can consistently score 25 goals (Skinner) over a guy with speed to burn who likely scores 15 this year, and has never scored more than 12.

On a side note, those skating stats the league puts out now can be much improved in general, and I hope the league continues to put work into them, as they are very basic right now.

 

[ManofSteel55]

If everyone in this trade reaches their potential (or what I believe their potential is), we just traded Andrew Cogliano and Ethan Moreau for Jordan Eberle. Despite all of the justifications making the rounds, I still think we win this one in a walk. If Savoie doesn't reach his potential, I still think we win.

 

[Stoneman89]

After both McLeod and Foegele shit the bed in the playoffs once again this year, you knew the clock was ticking on them. Healthy scratched for games and in so many others, were invisible, unless they were making the odd glaring mistake. IMO, neither will be missed, especially with the upgrades we've added. JJ has done more in one summer than most of our GMs have done in their entire time here. To get a prospect like Savoie is just icing on the cake. A lot of icing.

 

[Stauf4Prez]

After both McLeod and Foegele shit the bed in the playoffs once again this year, you knew the clock was ticking on them. Healthy scratched for games and in so many others, were invisible, unless they were making the odd glaring mistake. IMO, neither will be missed, especially with the upgrades we've added. JJ has done more in one summer than most of our GMs have done in their entire time here. To get a prospect like Savoie is just icing on the cake. A lot of icing.

Yeah, and not the sugary shit. Buttercream, or something good like that.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

After both McLeod and Foegele shit the bed in the playoffs once again this year, you knew the clock was ticking on them. Healthy scratched for games and in so many others, were invisible, unless they were making the odd glaring mistake. IMO, neither will be missed, especially with the upgrades we've added. JJ has done more in one summer than most of our GMs have done in their entire time here. To get a prospect like Savoie is just icing on the cake. A lot of icing.

Yep. McLeod would have got the typical McDrai boost all our past RFAs got to make too much money in arbitration. We would have paid him too much or lost him for nothing. Perfect timing.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I'd say there's speed and functional speed.

When the broadcasters were gushing over the Oilers team speed in the Finals, they keyed in on Brown, Janmark and Holloway. Guys that use their speed to close on guys, be a pain in the ass and cause turnovers. There was no mention of McLeod because skating really fast to stand 10 feet away from someone and waving your stick doesn't really do anything.

They added a similar player to those guys in Arvidsson which trickles down another plus skater to the third line whether that's a healthy Kane or Holloway. They're still a really fast team everywhere except #3C and the old folks home at #4RW, but I'd say there's a good chance that both Perry and Ryan take a decent bit of time off(and Ryan could even head to Bako).

I'd add processor speed to the equation. Janmark and Brown showed excellent ability to read and react in key situations which augmented the skating to make plays. Holloway is pure speed who will continue to grow his ability to read the game as his experience goes. A big difference between Holloway and McLeod is a consistent willingness to play in hard areas with the wheels and inclination to do so.

Adding Savoie gives this team a pedigree young guy with great wheels and a processor that's been able to be a difference maker against peer junior age competition. Farm him up and this team adds over time a solid, young guy who plays with speed and pace with strong decision making instincts.

 

[McFlyingV]

The lines I had in mind would be:
Skinner-McD-Hyman
Holloway-Drai-Arvidsson
Kane-Nuge-Savoie
Janmark-Henrique-Brown

McDavid gets another scoring winger and he and Hyman can cover Skinner's deficiencies. Holloway and Arvidsson give Drai two speedy wingers which he seems to excel with. Kane provides some protection for Savoie and Nuge provides a defensive conscience for Kane and Savoie. That line would get easy offensive minutes. 4th line is the defensive matchup line.

I see Dustin Nielson stole my lines on his podcast this morning with no shout out to HF boards. Show yourself buddy!

In all seriousness I love hearing other people talking about this potential line up. I think it could be absolute dynamite if Savoie kills it in camp.

 

[guymez]

 

[gordonhught]

Wow. This guy thinks that McLeod is awesome.

Why was he ever traded?

 

[Oilhawks]

Pushing the river with perimeter muffins…I don’t mind Curlock, but it’s takes like that that lead to fights between pure eye test and pure analytics guys

Good insights overall though as expected

 

[5 14 6 1]

As much as I love Rico and Perry, we are a significantly slower team with Foegele and Clouder gone. A lot of 'team speed' was lost.

We are in danger of being 'old and slow'.

Holloway, Savoie, Broberg and Arvidsson are all very fast players. Skinner is a good skater, maybe not a straight line speedster though

If everyone in this trade reaches their potential (or what I believe their potential is), we just traded Andrew Cogliano and Ethan Moreau for Jordan Eberle. Despite all of the justifications making the rounds, I still think we win this one in a walk. If Savoie doesn't reach his potential, I still think we win.

If Savoie hits his potential he is Brayden Point

 

[guymez]

Wow. This guy thinks that McLeod is awesome.

Why was he ever traded?

Well...I think that he just recognizes McLeods strengths.
Contrary to what we read on here after the trade McLeod does have some positive elements to his game.

 

[gordonhught]

Well...I think that he just recognizes McLeods strengths.
Contrary to what we read on here after the trade McLeod does have some positive elements to his game.

I am only hearing the good things about McLeod post trade. No one was making these favourable McLeod points pre trade.

 

[guymez]

I am only hearing the good things about McLeod post trade. No one was making these favourable McLeod points pre trade.

I must be reading different threads. Most of what I was seeing was not at all complementary.

That said I dont know what to make of the trade just yet. Its very much a 'wait and see' for me.

 

[McDNicks17]

Pushing the river with perimeter muffins…I don’t mind Curlock, but it’s takes like that that lead to fights between pure eye test and pure analytics guys

Good insights overall though as expected

Yeah, unfortunately he seems like someone who just skims the surface of advanced metrics and doesn't really ask why they are what they are.

When you look at McLeod's numbers, there's a massive chasm between his on-ice xGF and his actual on-ice GF. Lots of people that don't quite understand analytics will just say "he's unlucky, his onSH% would normalize", but it's pretty obvious when you watch McLeod play that the onSH% is low because most of those chances are muffins from the sideboards, like you said.

 

[McDNicks17]

McLeod has some interesting score effects too. There seems to be this weird assertion that he can pick up the slack when McDrai aren't on the ice.

Tied: 1.52 GF/60, 2.02 GA/60
Trailing: 1.01 GF/60, 3.27 GA/60

He was borderline unplayable unless McDrai gave him a lead to work with.

 

[MoontoScott]

I must be reading different threads. Most of what I was seeing was not at all complementary.

That said I dont know what to make of the trade just yet. Its very much a 'wait and see' for me.

This trade reminds me in some ways of the 1997 deal for Roman Hamrlik.

The Oilers were struggling to make the playoffs so Sather dealt 2 high profile first round picks (both top 6 selections in the draft) -- Jason Bonsignore and Steve Kelley to Tampa Bay for Roman Hamrlik.

The immediate response by Oiler fans said that the Oilers had fleeced Phil Esposito because it was obvious that neither Bonsignore or Kelly would ever play a substantial number of games in the NHL.

The assumption was right. Hamrlik was rejuvenated in Edmonton and the Oilers turned their season around and made the playoffs in that season and the the 2 subsequent seasons. The 2 picks going the other way were complete busts.

This time a high profile 1st round pick comes the Oiler's way and an established player goes out the door. I think Savoie will be a better player than either Bonsignore or Kelly but of course there is no way to be sure of this until he gets his audition in the NHL.

Regardless---one of the highest profile trades in Oiler history and will be discussed for many years to come.

 

[CornKicker]

still kinda curious why buffalo did this lol

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

still kinda curious why buffalo did this lol

From accounts, they were very high on what McLeod brings, as they completely re-shaped their bottom-6 this offseason, and though Savoie is very good, they have a few similar prospects. Also, I think because the Sabres were high on McLeod, JJ asked for a significant return.